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Old 04-23-2006, 02:56 PM   #1
kingtut12
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Default Evaluate this log please?

Hey guys

A friend of mine just got his UTEC tuned by a local tuner and from what I see, it looks pretty good. He just wants to squeeze a bit more out of his car. I logged this 1-2-3 gear pull :

Code:
3650, +0.4,3.0, 84, 10,   00,  12.1,+27.4,  25.4,+24.8, +1.1,385.00,3.0
 3912, +1.3,3.2, 89, 20,   00,  rich,+28.0,  30.8,+22.7, +0.0,385.00,3.0
 4262, +2.5,3.5, 95, 20,   00,  rich,+25.8,  41.1,+21.2, +0.9,385.00,3.2
 4591, +3.9,3.7, 95, 30,   00,  rich,+21.5,  58.3,+19.4, +1.0,350.00,3.5
 4852, +5.3,4.0, 96, 40,   00,  rich,+19.1,  70.7,+18.2, -0.6,350.00,3.7
 5350, +7.4,4.2, 95, 50,   00,  rich,+24.2,  82.0,+15.7, -1.8,300.00,3.9
 5767, +9.8,4.3, 95, 70,   00,  rich,+24.6,  82.6,+15.1, -3.0,300.00,3.8
 6207,+11.7,4.4, 95, 80,   00,  rich,+26.1,  87.7,+15.4, -3.7,300.00,4.0
 6706,+13.7,4.5, 95, 80,   00,  rich,+30.9,  88.5,+14.9, -3.6,300.00,4.0
 6626,+12.3,4.1,  0, 60,   00,  rich,+10.7,  26.0,ECU. , -2.2,ECU.  ,2.3
 6301, +6.2,1.6,  0, 10,   00,  rich,+11.1,   5.9,ECU. , -2.8,ECU.  ,1.4
 5777, +1.5,3.4, 73, 10,   00,  lean,+38.9,  51.1,+30.9, -2.8,300.00,3.4
 4468, -1.4,3.9, 89, 10,   00,  rich,+16.7,  60.8,+23.5, +1.1,385.00,3.5
 4535, -0.6,3.6, 96, 40,   00,  rich,+20.6,  54.3,+18.4, +1.2,385.00,3.5
 4553, +4.7,3.7, 96, 50,   00,  rich,+15.8,  53.7,+15.5, -0.6,385.00,3.5
 4522, +9.2,3.8, 95, 70,   00,  rich,+15.4,  55.8,+13.6, -2.9,385.00,3.5
 4675,+11.5,4.0, 92, 80,   00,  rich,+16.3,  60.8,+14.5, -2.9,350.00,3.6
 4880,+13.9,4.0, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+18.7,  66.9,+14.1, -3.5,350.00,3.5
 5035,+15.7,4.1, 95, 90,   00,  rich,+22.3,  69.0,+13.6, -3.9,300.00,3.6
 5241,+16.1,4.1, 95, 90,   00,  rich,+23.1,  72.7,+14.0, -4.0,300.00,3.7
 5359,+16.8,4.2, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+23.3,  74.5,+14.0, -4.0,300.00,3.7
 5555,+16.4,4.3, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+23.6,  73.0,+14.0, -3.9,300.00,3.7
 5817,+15.9,4.3, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+23.6,  80.1,+14.1, -3.8,300.00,3.8
 5899,+16.1,4.4, 91, 90,   00,  rich,+25.0,  84.6,+14.3, -3.6,300.00,3.9
 6093,+15.7,4.4, 62, 80,   00,  rich,+24.7,  83.8,+14.7, -3.6,300.00,3.9
 5767,+12.5,3.8,  0, 50,   00,  rich, +8.9,  32.0,ECU. , -1.7,ECU.  ,1.9
 5518, +5.7,1.6,  0, 10,   00,  rich,+11.2,   4.8,ECU. , -2.9,ECU.  ,1.2
 5159, +0.4,3.0, 38, 10,   00,  lean,+22.8,  31.0,+22.0, -3.2,280.00,3.0
 4301, -2.2,3.7, 78, 10,   00,  rich,+21.0,  51.4,+23.9, +1.1,385.00,3.4
 4363, -1.2,3.8, 96, 30,   00,  rich,+16.2,  53.2,+19.5, +0.9,385.00,3.5
 4385, +3.7,3.9, 96, 50,   00,  rich,+14.1,  58.6,+16.6, -0.3,385.00,3.6
 4535, +8.4,4.0, 95, 60,   00,  rich,+15.3,  60.7,+13.7, -2.9,350.00,3.6
 4662,+11.3,4.0, 96, 80,   00,  rich,+16.4,  62.0,+14.5, -2.9,350.00,3.5
 4714,+13.5,4.0, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+17.4,  61.4,+14.5, -2.8,350.00,3.6
 4823,+15.5,4.1, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+17.8,  63.2,+14.2, -3.0,350.00,3.6
 4880,+16.4,4.1, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+19.0,  61.4,+14.0, -3.6,350.00,3.6
 4990,+15.9,4.1, 95, 80,   00,  rich,+19.5,  68.2,+14.0, -4.0,300.00,3.7
 5073,+15.7,4.1, 96, 80,   00,  rich,+22.6,  65.1,+14.2, -4.0,300.00,3.6
 5128,+15.3,4.1, 96, 80,   00,  rich,+23.3,  69.8,+13.8, -4.0,300.00,3.7
 5282,+15.1,4.2, 96, 80,   00,  rich,+22.7,  71.8,+14.1, -4.1,300.00,3.7
 5359,+15.3,4.2, 96, 80,   00,  rich,+23.0,  72.8,+14.4, -4.1,300.00,3.7
 5376,+15.9,4.2, 95, 90,   00,  rich,+23.2,  72.6,+14.0, -4.0,300.00,3.8
 5464,+16.4,4.2, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+22.6,  75.4,+14.0, -3.9,300.00,3.7
 5640,+16.6,4.3, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+22.8,  78.0,+14.0, -3.9,300.00,3.8
 5827,+17.0,4.3, 96, 90,   00,  rich,+23.3,  79.9,+14.0, -3.7,300.00,3.8
 5817,+16.1,4.3, 95, 80,   00,  rich,+24.8,  83.1,+14.5, -3.9,300.00,3.9
 5837,+15.9,4.3, 70, 80,   00,  rich,+24.6,  82.7,+14.2, -3.8,300.00,3.9
 5640,+13.5,3.6,  0, 70,   00,  rich,+40.7,  68.6,ECU. , -3.2,ECU.  ,3.0
 5482, +7.4,2.0,  0, 10,   00,  rich,+10.9,   4.8,ECU. , -3.0,ECU.  ,1.3
 5096, +0.6,1.2,  0, 10,   00,  23.7,+11.3,   3.9,ECU. , -3.2,ECU.  ,1.2
 4748, -6.1,1.7,  0, 10,   00,  lean,+11.3,   5.7,ECU. , +1.0,ECU.  ,1.7
 4415,-10.8,1.9,  0, 00,   00,  24.0,+11.4,  30.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU.  ,1.8
I thought timing was pretty linear up top and could use some gradual advancing after peak torque.
Also, no wideband to log AFR's - sorry.

He has APS 40 turbo, APS FMIC, all APS exhaust plumbing, TGV deletes, UTEC with ABC hooked up, 550 inj. (scaled to 550), APS fuel rails.

Thanks for any constructive criticism.
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Old 04-23-2006, 08:30 PM   #2
kingtut12
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Default

Anyone?
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:43 AM   #3
TurbojonLS
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Default

I'm still running the stock turbo, so take this with a grain of salt.

1 - Why is he only boosting 17psi? I would expect to be running closer to 20.
2 - Timing looks whack. Its lower than ECU timing at almost every point in the log, even at really low boost.

Also, its really hard to get more constructive w/out A/F numbers.
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Old 04-24-2006, 10:51 AM   #4
Xman23
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Quote:
Timing looks whack. Its lower than ECU timing at almost every point in the log, even at really low boost.
I agree
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Old 04-24-2006, 11:00 AM   #5
WRX-Blue-Mica
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I think:
- Timing too low, try to increase it in small step
- Boost can be push more and increase it in small step
- Set ur TPS to reach at least 100%
- Next time pull from low rev like 2000-7000 rpm in 3rd or 4th gear and data log it.

Just my 2cnt
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Old 04-24-2006, 04:51 PM   #6
kingtut12
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Thanks guys, I thought timing was rather low as well. As far as boost goes, it certainly needs tweaking. Thanks.
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Old 04-24-2006, 07:08 PM   #7
Freon
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#1: Either your TPS isn't calibrated right or your friend wasn't pushing the pedal all the way down. You should hit 100-102. This is easy to fix. Lower the map TPS voltage by a tenth and you should be good to go, or tell your friend to push harder on the gas. Now you can hit the last load column on your boost map.

#2 Timing is really bad. +15 might be ok at 4000-4500 and 16psi, but it should slowly creep up as you approach redline. Even at full boost I'll hit 20-23 degrees, as would most cars, at 6000-7000rpm. It looks like the guy just filled the whole map, 80+load, 4500+rpm with "14" over and over. That's not a good tune. You're giving up power and running higher EGT for it. Really, that timing map is whack. It should look more like this:

Code:
 RPM	  MAP	 MAF	TPS	Site	Count	afr	 Ign#1	 Inj#1	 Ign	  Fuel	Boost	 MAF

2544	-10.6	2.3	32	0	0	23.6	9.1	36.5	ECU. 	0	ECU.  	2.8
2495	-8.1	2.7	34	0	0	15.7	9.7	17.4	ECU. 	0	ECU.  	2.7
2590	-5.3	2.8	35	10	0	13.6	28.7	17.6	24.6	3.5	ECU.  	2.9
2662	-2.2	2.9	49	10	0	13.9	23.4	23	24.4	3.5	114	3.1
2773	0.6	3	51	20	0	12.6	19.8	24.7	21.5	2.1	154	3.2
2851	1.9	3.2	56	20	0	12.4	18	29.8	21.5	2	162	3.2
2878	3.5	3.3	58	30	0	11.8	14.8	35.8	18	2.7	182	3.3
3072	4.7	3.4	57	40	0	11.5	13.7	38.1	17	2.4	178	3.4
3189	6.5	3.3	57	40	0	11.8	15.3	36.8	17	1.9	178	3.4
3360	7.6	3.4	66	50	0	11.8	17.3	39.3	16.6	2.4	182	3.6
3436	8.4	3.5	95	50	0	12.2	17	43.6	16.7	2.2	325	3.6
3572	9.6	3.8	101	60	0	12.2	12	54.7	16.5	3.3	340	4
3728	11	3.9	101	70	0	11.2	12.9	61.4	16	3.1	340	4
3940	12.9	3.9	102	80	0	11.1	17.1	59.3	16	3.1	340	3.9
4011	14.7	3.9	102	80	0	11.5	20.8	64.5	16.8	2.9	350	4.1
4235	15.7	4	101	80	0	11	21.3	72.6	17.5	2.6	350	4.1
4468	15.7	4.1	102	80	0	11.1	20.6	76	17.5	2.8	350	4.2
4728	15.5	4.2	102	80	0	10.9	21.8	81.4	17.8	2.2	350	4.2
4844	15.5	4.2	102	80	0	10.9	22.7	86.7	18.6	1.2	350	4.3
5042	15.5	4.3	102	80	0	10.9	24.4	84.1	19.6	-0.3	350	4.2
5316	15.3	4.2	101	80	0	11	24.8	88	20.1	0.3	350	4.2
5482	15.3	4.3	102	70	0	11.3	24	85.3	21.9	0.3	350	4.3
5717	14.5	4.4	101	70	0	11.3	23.5	91.2	22	0.3	340	4.4
5889	15.1	4.4	100	80	0	11.4	23.6	96	22	0.5	340	4.4
6049	15.1	4.4	102	80	0	11.1	24.2	95.7	22	0.5	330	4.4
6184	15.1	4.4	100	80	0	11.2	25.4	95	23.6	0.4	330	4.4
6435	15.3	4.4	100	70	0	11.1	26.7	94.7	24.8	0.2	330	4.4
6447	14.3	4.4	54	70	0	11.1	30.8	93.8	26.9	-0.3	166	4.4
6816	9.8	1.7	1	0	0	14.1	22.8	7.1	29	0.5	ECU.  	1.5
6373	3.5	1.4	91	10	0	12.8	40.6	40.4	25.8	-0.4	290	3.4
5350	0.8	4	106	10	0	18.1	25.9	76.8	24	0	350	4.2
5073	0.2	4.3	105	40	0	10.1	21.9	93.4	22.4	0.4	350	4.3
5282	5.3	4.4	105	70	0	10.8	21.2	90.4	21.6	0	350	4.4
5446	11.6	4.3	105	80	0	11.3	21.7	90.4	20.6	0.4	350	4.3
5500	14.9	4.4	105	80	0	11.3	21.4	89.8	21	0.4	340	4.3
5698	15.3	4.4	105	70	0	11.3	21.3	88.7	22	0.3	340	4.4
5837	14.9	4.4	104	70	0	11.3	21.3	91.5	22.4	0.4	340	4.4
5787	14.7	4.4	103	80	0	11.2	21.4	95.3	22	0.5	340	4.4
6006	14.3	4.4	102	70	0	11.1	22.1	93.9	23.1	0.4	330	4.4
5952	15.1	4.4	71	80	0	11.2	22.2	96.4	22.6	0.5	310	4.4
6049	13.5	3.9	15	0	0	10.2	32.2	14.3	27.8	0.4	154	2.5
5777	7.2	1.6	2	0	0	13.7	23	5.4	26	0.2	ECU.  	1.3
5446	0.6	1.1	2	0	0	13.6	23.1	4.1	26	0	ECU.  	1.2
4945	-6.5	1.5	2	0	0	31.8	23.2	5.6	26	0	ECU.  	1.7
4604	-11.8	1.8	2	0	0	30.3	23.3	23	ECU. 	0	ECU.  	1.8
(this tune runs richer than needed in the 10-40 load columns, but is otherwise, IMHO, really good)

#3. Your midrange boost is low, and you have lots of injector left. There is a ton of midrange power and torque left on the table. Basically, any turbo that can do 15psi @ 6500rpm is going to be able to push 17-18psi at 4500rpm without any trouble.

More logs would help. I'd really like to see a dump of the timing map as well. You really should get a wideband as well and log that.

A full pull from 2500rpm in 3rd or 4th gear would also help.
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:02 PM   #8
kingtut12
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Freon

Thanks for the informative post. Very thorough and to the point -

Victor, if your reading this you should log on and introduce yourself - these guys can really help you out. I will copy your timing map next time we meet up and post it.

If I remember - at 80, 90, 100 load at around 5000 and up it was 14 deg give or take a half everywhere. Car ran super smooth and no knock detected whatsoever.

Thanks guys
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:50 AM   #9
AaronWRX
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yeah... 14 degrees of timing. meh. did he take it to a shop that does mostly DSM tuning?


top of 3rd and only 4.3v's of maf? <orangecounty> Weak Sauce! </orangecounty>
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Old 04-25-2006, 06:38 PM   #10
kingtut12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronWRX
yeah... 14 degrees of timing. meh. did he take it to a shop that does mostly DSM tuning?


top of 3rd and only 4.3v's of maf? <orangecounty> Weak Sauce! </orangecounty>

Actually, to the shop's defense, they had never tuned a UTEC and did a decent(safe) job. But yeah, DSM's and Honda's. Were gonna adjust timing a bit and see if that is enough, but I'm afraid fuel adjustments will need to follow, but without a wideband, I am a bit nervous to make big changes.
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