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Old 04-30-2006, 01:25 AM   #1
I'm Slow
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Default Ecutek learning less boost??

OK, My 05 WRX is setup with VF22, pinks, Sti tmic, Walbro pump, Perrin EBCS,HKS BOV, and TBE. I have it flashed with Ecutek and was tuned for 19.5 lbs peak.....tapering to 15.5 at redline. When the car was street tuned it hit target boost everytime easily. The next day, the car was only hitting 16 lbs peak. I decided to take it back for a retune and on the way there it was hitting target boost agian 19.5. Now, the car is doing it again. My boost is so random. Lately, the car only hits about 16 lbs peak and occasionally will hit the target 19.5. It's like the ECU is learnig less boost. I was thinking that I may have a leak somewhere, howeverit is so random and occasionally I do hit target boost. Here is the kicker, If I reset the ECU......the car pulls like normal .....hitting 19.5 lbs. However, after a day or 2 of driving the boost works it's way down to 16 again. This is so frustrating. Anyone have/had this issue? What do you all think? Right now I am at a loss I am going to try changing the BOV back to stock and checking the TMIC y pipe but I don't think it is a leak since when I reset the ECU target boost is achieved
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Old 05-02-2006, 04:55 PM   #2
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no one?
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:28 PM   #3
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My guess is that the engine is sensing knock at the higher boost and pulling timing back. When you reset the ECU, it forgets this learned behavior and has to figure it out all over again.

Try putting in some octane booster to see if it manages to keep the higher boost for longer periods of time.
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:25 AM   #4
I'm Slow
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Well, from what I have read the boost only has two modes the tuned target boost and the knock boost map which is wastgate only. Like 8 lbs. If I was knockin the knock correction maps would take over
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Old 05-04-2006, 11:31 AM   #5
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There are a few reasons the boost could be lower.

1. The target boost levels are lower than the wastegate duty cycle's. So in turn the ECU will try and pull out the boost to reach target boost.
2. Your car is seeing a fair amount of detonation and the ECU is yanking down the advance multiplier. It is yanks it down far enough the ECU will drop the boost to a much lower value.
3. Temperature compensation in regards to water and air. If the water or air is too warm or too cool, the ECU will pull boost also.

A lot of these factors are based around the tune more than anything else.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
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I-Speed USA
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford/I-Speed
There are a few reasons the boost could be lower.

1. The target boost levels are lower than the wastegate duty cycle's. So in turn the ECU will try and pull out the boost to reach target boost.
2. Your car is seeing a fair amount of detonation and the ECU is yanking down the advance multiplier. It is yanks it down far enough the ECU will drop the boost to a much lower value.
3. Temperature compensation in regards to water and air. If the water or air is too warm or too cool, the ECU will pull boost also.

A lot of these factors are based around the tune more than anything else.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
I-Speed USA
In regards to the #2, If my car was seeing detonation.......Wouldn't the Knock correction map kick in. My tune is set to run just wastegate and extremely rich if the ECU detects knock. If I was getting fair amount of knock I would think it would kick in by now. Am I right or am I overlooking a learning factor in the ECU.

Also, as far as #1. Could you clarify, should the wastegate duty cycle be higher than the target boost level?


Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:33 PM   #7
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Old 05-09-2006, 11:16 PM   #8
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anyone else
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Old 05-09-2006, 11:39 PM   #9
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I do believe if the IAM is too low or knock levels are too high it will cut boost eventually. I don't know the exact mechanism for controlling this, though.
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Old 05-10-2006, 12:03 AM   #10
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If resetting the ECU makes your boost go back up, then your car is learning SOMETHING that is making it unhappy.

As Bill said, the car can cut boost if you see too much knock and your IAM is lowered past 4 (this is the stock value- it can be changed by your tuner). The best way to see if this condition is occurring is to get a datalogger on your car and see what the IAM is when the boost is low. Since the IAM is dynamic, it may be straddling the line of where boost is enabled and not, so it advances, you get boost, that causes knock, and then it gets lower again.

Also, is there a correllation between when the car lowers boost and temperature? I've never used the Perrin EBCS, however, I know with the GM 3 port solenoid, all of the compensation maps had to be modified to keep things consistent. It is a lot more sensative so the stock temp compensation values are too drastic and cause boost to be inconsistent.

Datalogs should tell for sure what's goign on.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 05-11-2006, 06:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Slow
In regards to the #2, If my car was seeing detonation.......Wouldn't the Knock correction map kick in. My tune is set to run just wastegate and extremely rich if the ECU detects knock. If I was getting fair amount of knock I would think it would kick in by now. Am I right or am I overlooking a learning factor in the ECU.

Also, as far as #1. Could you clarify, should the wastegate duty cycle be higher than the target boost level?


Thanks in advance!
Little slow on the response, I apologize.

If the car detects knock it will pull out timing from the knock correction map and if it gets bad enough the advance multiplier will start to drop. But both of these settings are based around the tuner of the vehicle.

If the values were set improperly:
1. The ECU may not pull any timing from the knock correction map and may not do anything with the advance multiplier.
2. The ECU will yank out to much timing; in turn this will affect the fueling and cause it to run to rich.

In all, the fueling mixture has little effect on detonation compared to timing. If you have to much timing when the car is rich or lean it will detonate. Where as if the cars timing is correct, running it relatively rich will wash the cylinder walls down and running too lean will cause the car to detonate.

So it is really dependant on the tune more than anything.

I am giving off free info to internet tuners here, as for the WG Duty, this should be lower than the desired boost. So if it set higher this will have ill affects on the tune and cause the car to possibly detonate, run too lean or too rich depending the safety features and tune in the vehicle.

There is quite a bit that goes into programming the stock ECU, you can't just change the few standard features on the ECU, unless the car is completely stock. Any modifications require more advance programming beyond timing, fueling and boost.

Sorry if I rambled on, there is a lot in the ECU and trying to sum it up for specific setups is quite difficult.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA
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Old 06-04-2006, 10:25 PM   #12
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i just recently had my car reflashed with ecutech(5 days ago) and today I cranked up in the driveway and it idled rather rough for a few seconds ,I reved it a little and it smoothed out,as I was driving I tried to accelerate and realized I could only boost to 5-7 lbs,I had no clue what was up,So I pulled over and reset the ecu and back to my 17.5 like the day before,I drove 300 miles home from georgia nd no problems as of yet.Gonna go see my tuner monday and see whats up.
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Old 06-04-2006, 11:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Slow
OK, My 05 WRX is setup with VF22, pinks, Sti tmic, Walbro pump, Perrin EBCS,HKS BOV, and TBE.

Ecutek suggest that you use the stock boost control solenoid.
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Old 06-04-2006, 11:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford/I-Speed
I am giving off free info to internet tuners here, as for the WG Duty, this should be lower than the desired boost. So if it set higher this will have ill affects on the tune and cause the car to possibly detonate, run too lean or too rich depending the safety features and tune in the vehicle.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA
I do believe that max wastegate duty cycle is suppose to be 10%
greater than initial wastegate duty cycle and not the other way around.
Initial wastegate is suppose to be desired boost.
please check with your Ecutek representative.

if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstruded
by the masses and thats where the term a little bit of information can be
dangerous, believe that was Winston Churchill..
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Old 06-04-2006, 11:26 PM   #15
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jaxscuby-sent you a pm
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby
I do believe that max wastegate duty cycle is suppose to be 10%
greater than initial wastegate duty cycle and not the other way around.
Initial wastegate is suppose to be desired boost.
please check with your Ecutek representative.

if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstruded
by the masses and thats where the term a little bit of information can be
dangerous, believe that was Winston Churchill..
Thank you for taking the time to explain what your views, but I think you miss-read the first post. The vehicle is a 2005 WRX (not a STi), in this case there are no initial WG duty cycle's in the map, max WG duty cycles control the desired boost levels. I hope you do not tune 2.0 Liter WRX's with 2.5 Liter STi maps...

As you have stated "if you pass on information that is not clear, the facts will be misconstrued by the masses..." I would suggest getting a refresher course from Ben at EcuTeK (North American EcuTeK Representative) on the difference between the 2.0 Liter WRX and 2.5 Liter STi models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jus2quik
i just recently had my car reflashed with ecutech(5 days ago) and today I cranked up in the driveway and it idled rather rough for a few seconds ,I reved it a little and it smoothed out,as I was driving I tried to accelerate and realized I could only boost to 5-7 lbs,I had no clue what was up,So I pulled over and reset the ecu and back to my 17.5 like the day before,I drove 300 miles home from georgia nd no problems as of yet.Gonna go see my tuner monday and see whats up.
From the sounds of it, the ECU is pulling down the Advance Multiplier because it is seeing detonation. The detonation could be from a few different reasons, too much boost, too much timing or too little fuel. It is hard to say without seeing some datalogs or running it on the dyno.

When the ECU pulls down the AM far enough the ECU will go into a limp mode where the wastegate solenoid will shut off. In turn this drops the boost to wastegate spring levels, which are about 7-8 PSI on a stock WRX turbo. This is a very series problem and I would recommend would having this looked at right away, otherwise you could have a large paperweight on your desk.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:03 PM   #17
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well it has been 5 days since the "hiccup",I have had no boost problems or anything wrong since the reset.I have not had a chance to get to the shop to get the car data logged but so far so good.the car is running like a charm and does not appear to be pulling timing or knock that I can tell.
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Old 06-25-2006, 08:52 PM   #18
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i have the same problem but not as severe, my ECUtek is set to 15.5 max boost but on some days it will only hit 13-14psi, i would have to put in a few runs where i really get on it then it will go back up to 15.5 for awhile. not reallhy sure why
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truwrxtacy
i have the same problem but not as severe, my ECUtek is set to 15.5 max boost but on some days it will only hit 13-14psi, i would have to put in a few runs where i really get on it then it will go back up to 15.5 for awhile. not reallhy sure why
What modifications are on your vehicle?
When it was first tuned did it hit 15.5 PSI?
When driving the car, does it do anything out of the ordinary? Jerk, sputter, CEL flashes, etc...

Let us know,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:23 PM   #20
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Unhappy Ecutek and less boost

I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:34 AM   #21
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^^^ Get a new tuner. Where did you take it?
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJason25
I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost

holler at Scott Siegel and fire your current tuner
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Old 08-04-2006, 02:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJason25
I had my sti reflashed about 3 weeks ago. I had it reflashed for a perrin tbe and an injen cai. Took the car out for a test drive and was very dissapointed. First gear was a very l o n g gear. Would only hit 7-9 psi. Thinking I was just imaginig things, I took my lovely wife for a ride. She also said that it felt slower and that it didnt make her feel sick like it did before. I got ahold of the tuner and he suggested increasing the boost pressure but I thought the tune was supposed to make it faster. Couldve saved myself $500 and just increased the boost
Wow, I hope the tuners that did the job took the work back and got you a proper tune.
Please, let me know when you have a problem with your tune/tuner. This is why I am available overr the phone and via e-mail.
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Old 08-04-2006, 03:10 PM   #24
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it could be that your not hitting your multiplier... but 7-9psi sounds about right in 1st gear, your not suppose to max out in 1st gear.
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:26 PM   #25
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I defenetly thinks that the problems lies in the WG duty and the desired boost settings. this needs to be adressed by your tuner.

if they need help/suggestions ask them to contact me.

Cheers !

Ben
EcuTeK North America
ben@ecutek.com
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