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Old 09-05-2016, 03:58 PM   #1
sub2010ss
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Default Bad rod bearings so might as well build it

I have 2011 WRX with 80K miles, a K&N air filter, and a cobb access port. I started getting what I thought was lifter noise that progressed to obvious rod noise. Got her all tore apart this weekend and sure enough, 4 bad rods with one that was more obviously making noise. I am going to chalk up these bad rods to bad luck, as for the life of my I can't figure out why they'd go bad with such low milage with such little mods and a solid routine maintenance plan. Anyways, I've started to place some orders for my build. Please chime in if you have any advice on what I am doing, better options, and most importantly, how to get more than 80k miles.

Machine work is going to be done by Wagamon Brothers in Minneapolis, MN.
Manley Turbo Tuff Pistons 99.75 bore
Manley H-beam rods
STI Crank shaft
ACL race bearings
Air pump delete
Gates water pump
Gates timing belt kit
Exedy premium clutch
Subaru Gasket kit
ARP head studs
TGV Delete
Group N engine mounts
Titanium turbo blanket
Perrin heat shield
Ported and polished heads
Ported and polished turbo
Billet compressor wheel
Tomei EL headers with DEI wrap
ID 1000 injectors
Rev9 catless downpipe
Grimmspeed EBCS
Catch cans
DW300C fuel pump
Cobb Flex Fuel
FMS FMIC
TurboXS CAI
Turbosmart BPV




Im don't have any expectations for power output, just want a fun reliable build.











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Last edited by sub2010ss; 11-12-2016 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:16 PM   #2
BeastianSTI
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Make sure you clean everything you get back from the machine shop. Even if they hyper-super-duper-sonic cleaned them. They don't care about your motor like you do.

If there are any filters in banjo fittings for ur year wrx, either replace or remove them. Clean the heck out of the oil pan, and replace the oil cooler, since it's been contaminated. You may or may not want to get a new oil pump. Rod knock is no fun =(
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:27 PM   #3
sub2010ss
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I definitely understand the no fun part. I plan on buying a few cans of cleaner and running through all of the ports and components to get them good and clean, including blowing them out with air. I also understand minimal use of sealant is key as well. As far as I understood my 2011 WRX (non STI) didn't have a factory oil cooler. Good info on the banjos. Thank you!!
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Make sure you clean everything you get back from the machine shop. Even if they hyper-super-duper-sonic cleaned them. They don't care about your motor like you do.
^ this +1
My shop did an ultrasonic clean, but when I opened the galleries they were still packed with black sludge.
The hex plugs on the heads strip out easily. 20-30 seconds with a sm butane torch and they backed out easily
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:26 AM   #5
Paul
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New oil cooler and oil pump are a must and since new oil pans are <100$ Id think about just replacing it VS spending time/money cleaning.

Also what oil were you using? What are your temps like in your area during summer and winter.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:27 AM   #6
Paul
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O and the AVCS gears need to be cleaned and can be a pain to put back together if you havnt before. Outfront does service them and if it was me Id let them handle it.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:51 PM   #7
sub2010ss
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I've already started researching best methods to clean everything out. Good advice though. Thank you!
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:46 AM   #8
Paul
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Sounds good!!

Just my 2cents: When you think you cleaned it good enough do it again. Nothing is worse than spending all the time/money on a rebuild to be in the same place a month down the road because there was some debris left.
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Old 09-11-2016, 02:57 AM   #9
sub2010ss
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As far as oil, I have been using valvoline 5w/40 synthetic. I live in iowa with pretty mild summers, touch on 90's for a week or two, and pretty cold winters, 0-20 for a couple of weeks.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:25 PM   #10
sub2010ss
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I got a call from my machine shop today. Apparently my main journals are in need of a line hone. After doing a little reseach, this seems to be fairly common? When I tore my engine apart, the main bearings looked absolutely flawless. So I'm having the shop order me up some King +.002" standard bearings as I have a new crankshaft to drop in it. I did a search online and cant seem to find anyone that sells these bearings. I'll look a little more tonight.

Also, I got my heads back as well. They look like brand new. I am slightly worried about my final compression ratio. The heads have been cleaned up. The block halves are getting cleaned up, and the pistons have the smaller 22cc dish. From what I understand my heads have the smaller combustion chambers (EJ255). Once I have everything I'll be taking measurements and calculating a final compression ratio.
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:55 AM   #11
sub2010ss
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Im finding more and more things I want to do to my engine as I wait for the machine work to be done. On the list tonight and for several nights to come is porting my heads.




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Old 10-18-2016, 06:22 AM   #12
sub2010ss
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Today I got around to checking clearances.

I ended up with .0007-.0008" on all rods and .0010-.0012 on all of the mains. A little tighter then i expected but all within spec.





Last edited by sub2010ss; 10-22-2016 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:15 AM   #13
sub2010ss
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Started working on my TGV delete.





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Old 10-24-2016, 05:30 AM   #14
sub2010ss
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Finished my TGV'a tonight.





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Old 10-24-2016, 07:16 PM   #15
Paul
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I wouldn't use the FSM specs for your motor since your not doing a stock rebuild.

I'd do a search but I'm pretty sure .015 mains and .018-.02 rods is the normal specs people use when building a motor like yours. Sure you'll find people going slightly tighter and more going looser

Also your measuring the mains with the cases TQed up just like the FSM states correct? This can drastically change the size if you don't do it correctly.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:56 PM   #16
sub2010ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
I wouldn't use the FSM specs for your motor since your not doing a stock rebuild.

I'd do a search but I'm pretty sure .015 mains and .018-.02 rods is the normal specs people use when building a motor like yours. Sure you'll find people going slightly tighter and more going looser

Also your measuring the mains with the cases TQed up just like the FSM states correct? This can drastically change the size if you don't do it correctly.
I didn't larger with the clearance because I was concerned about oil pressure loss and needing to upgrade the oil pump. The factory clearance on theses seem really tight but maybe because of more precise equipment then when I last rebuilt an engine 20 years ago. I did torque the cases together per spec. I'm also going to check clearances one more time with a more precise dial bore gauge from work.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:58 AM   #17
sub2010ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
I wouldn't use the FSM specs for your motor since your not doing a stock rebuild.

I'd do a search but I'm pretty sure .015 mains and .018-.02 rods is the normal specs people use when building a motor like yours. Sure you'll find people going slightly tighter and more going looser

Also your measuring the mains with the cases TQed up just like the FSM states correct? This can drastically change the size if you don't do it correctly.
Remeasueed everything
Mains are running .0019-.0021
Rods are .0013-.0015
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:12 AM   #18
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Good thread. I'm going to do this to my 06 WRX soon. The my machine shop also offers to assemble the short block and set all the clearances etc for 200$ which I want to take advantage of, but now I'm wondering about double checking their work etc. like you did... You never know. However, they have an amazing reputation and have built some of my friends cars that are still on the road 40k miles later running 400-500 whp as daily drivers...
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Old 10-26-2016, 05:46 PM   #19
sub2010ss
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That's a good price for the work that's involved with assembly. I didn't even ask about it because I wanted to do it myself but if the shop has a good rep I would have no issues turning it over to them without double checking.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:00 PM   #20
sub2010ss
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So I know this is very 10 year old with a model but I guess I'm kind of a 10 year old with a model. Don't judge. ��

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Old 10-26-2016, 07:57 PM   #21
Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub2010ss View Post
I didn't larger with the clearance because I was concerned about oil pressure loss and needing to upgrade the oil pump. The factory clearance on theses seem really tight but maybe because of more precise equipment then when I last rebuilt an engine 20 years ago. I did torque the cases together per spec. I'm also going to check clearances one more time with a more precise dial bore gauge from work.
Unless you go really really large the stock pump is all that should be needed for your setup...might need to shim it but that goes with any pump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sub2010ss View Post
Remeasueed everything
Mains are running .0019-.0021
Rods are .0013-.0015
That sounds better....what kind of miss/bore gauge are you using? What do they measure too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanaHaveRex View Post
Good thread. I'm going to do this to my 06 WRX soon. The my machine shop also offers to assemble the short block and set all the clearances etc for 200$ which I want to take advantage of, but now I'm wondering about double checking their work etc. like you did... You never know. However, they have an amazing reputation and have built some of my friends cars that are still on the road 40k miles later running 400-500 whp as daily drivers...
If hes only charging $200 I'd triple check his work You do need the right tools to do that but you can get a decent set of mics and a bore gauge for <$200. You could just use a plastic gauge to check bearings but you'd still need tools for PTW clearance
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:04 PM   #22
sub2010ss
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I'm not sure the brand on the bore gauge. It is a piece I borrowed from work. Measures down to .0001". I'm sure it's a quality tool as it's only purpose in life other than to measure my Subaru is to check clearances on our backup electrical power diesels at the nuclear power plant I work at. Hopefully they aren't cheaping out on a set of bore gauges. ��
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:49 PM   #23
Paul
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Did the machine shop end up doing a line hone? The mains on these cars def get some wear but it seems like alot of people get away with just mixing bearings shells (STD and STD-X) on the same journal...doesn't seem like alot of people do any machining to the mains. I think the main reason is cost and the fact you can get new empty cases BNIB from subaru for 1k

If he hasn't I'd ask how much more a line bore would be so then you can basically get the exact clearance you want. A line hone can work but is very inferior to a good line bore and if the machinist doesn't have alot of experience doing that on Suby motors he could very easily ruin your block....hense why alot of people go new, after selling the block they have its basically the same cost of the machine work needed (bore, line hone/bore, surface decked, ect)
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:55 PM   #24
sub2010ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Did the machine shop end up doing a line hone? The mains on these cars def get some wear but it seems like alot of people get away with just mixing bearings shells (STD and STD-X) on the same journal...doesn't seem like alot of people do any machining to the mains. I think the main reason is cost and the fact you can get new empty cases BNIB from subaru for 1k

If he hasn't I'd ask how much more a line bore would be so then you can basically get the exact clearance you want. A line hone can work but is very inferior to a good line bore and if the machinist doesn't have alot of experience doing that on Suby motors he could very easily ruin your block....hense why alot of people go new, after selling the block they have its basically the same cost of the machine work needed (bore, line hone/bore, surface decked, ect)
My halves were line honed to .002" over I beleieve. The shop ordered oversized bearings to fit the bigger holes. The shop I worked with in MN has a good reputation with Subarus and have built some 700hp engines so I believe they did a good job
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:01 PM   #25
Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub2010ss View Post
I'm not sure the brand on the bore gauge. It is a piece I borrowed from work. Measures down to .0001". I'm sure it's a quality tool as it's only purpose in life other than to measure my Subaru is to check clearances on our backup electrical power diesels at the nuclear power plant I work at. Hopefully they aren't cheaping out on a set of bore gauges. ��
Ok great... your mics are decent too I assume? Over 100$ for set is what I consider decent

A very good practice to check the mains is set you bore gauge to 2.520 and see where your at. I'd be very curious to see what that is since getting your mains at .0019-.0021 is pretty consistent for 1 set of bearings. If you mixed and matched that would be a different store.

EDIT: Didn't read your other post til after this one. So did you, yourself, recheck all the measurements after the machine work or just what the got? Mind saying the shops name?
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