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Old 05-02-2006, 10:41 PM   #1
RainMaker
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Now with alot less verve!

Default Manifold and Header Comparo results

We bought all the stuff for a dyno comparison (and road spool logging) of the following items:

1. stock manifold (a stage 2 06 STi) (free)
2. IOTA (Gotpnp.com) ported manifolds and crosspipe ($160+shipping+core)
3. Crucial Racing ported and coated manifold and coated Injen crosspipe (~$500+core)
4. Perrin's new Equal Length headers ($779+shipping)
5. Gruppe-S un-equal length coated headers ($575 shipped)

The following folks together contributed over 3/4 of the monetary costs of the dyno:
1. Unibomber ($20)
2. JitenShakun ($5)
3. Senortighto ($20)
4. SilverSurfer04STi ($20)
5. modaddict ($10)
6. evodon84 ($10)
7. Verc ($10)
8. Crucial Racing ($20)
9. TylerTR ($10)
10. Freon ($20)
11. Tucker63 ($20)
12. EKW ($10)
13. KipA ($10)
14. WolfPlayer ($10)
15. JBlaine ($28.49)
16. Reid-o ($15)

Q: Why different days?
We dyno'd after we got there with all the learning the car could have done (several weeks). We then, for a last run, reset the computer (not shown above). The car lost a bit of power and torque (~10 tq/hp). This is significant enough to us that we'd like to let the car learn each of the manifoldsheaders through a day or two of pretty hard driving. We are using Cobb's standard stage 2 map. If we changed the manifolds out on the dyno for one big Manifoldapalooza, we would have to reset the computer each time, and we believe this will produce inaccurate results...

Results:

All logs are contained in the following post:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=974977

Dyno graph key:
RunFile_002 - Stock
RunFile_006 - IOTA
RunFile_011 - Crucial and Injen
RunFile_016 - Perrin Equal-Length, non-coated
RunFile_020 - Gruppe-S UnEqual-Lenth, coated

Uncorrected:


SAE Corrected:


I can post individual comparisons as requests come up, but those results should give you the data in a quick hit.

A opinions on the results:
- As the money goes up, so do the results. THere were no extreme values in comparison to others. Each cost seemed to buy you incrementally more power.

- The only hit to spool was the classic unequal-length headers. I suspect under hot, demanding conditions, the system could get hot and would make the hit to the spool less.

- Spool is effected almost entirely by the ability of the system to keep heat in the exhaust, and the fittiment of the system so as to prevent leaks.

- For the same results, the Crucial setup or the IOTA porting with an Injen crosspipe offers stock-like fittiment and probably VERY few issues come warrantee time.

- The Perrin offer top notch results and top notch construction at a top-notch price (especially after coating and wrapping). The downside/upside is the change in the sound of the car. I, personally, like it. But I have no aversion to sounding like a Honda and no special attachment to the Boxer sound. Others certainly may differ. If I need to listen to a lope, I have a big-cam Chevy LS-1 in the garage The Perrins make the car a bit quieter also, in my non-scientific opinion. Certainly less resonant on the highway.

The first two setups, the IOTA ported manifolds and the Crucial ported/coated manifolds and Injen Xpipe, are now for sale here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997456
I will continue to post for sale any system that we are done with in that thread.

Let's discuss
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Last edited by RainMaker; 05-04-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:52 PM   #2
mnavarro
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Good work... what does a 10% difference in humidity equate to in HP? I have the aps and I do prefer the sound to the boxer sound. I may go with the perrin for my gt30 setup.

Last edited by mnavarro; 05-02-2006 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:00 PM   #3
RainMaker
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I dont know the effect of humidity, but I included the SAE corrected to show that it just compresses the results a little. The humidity cant mean too much if Houston Raceway Park is one of the fastest dragstrips in the country

As for the APS, the Perrins *likely* offer VERY close results, yet have a slip-fit instead of the flex joint, and dont require a specific Up-pipe for those of us with EWGs or rotated kits... and are cheaper (by $200+) to boot.
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:32 AM   #4
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So power-wise... Perrins are doing well. I think I remember reading you said they took a little bit to get warmed up? I guess coating them would be an option. How much are hte Perrins, btw?

PS you guys are doing great work for the community. I applaud you.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:00 AM   #5
LastResort
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Would it be premature to say that this sticks a fork in the theory that equal length headers kill early spool? That's great to hear, but not at the price they have. Ouch. Thanks, and I'm a little bummed I missed out on the opportunity to contribute. Let me know next time you do this(possibly with some more equal length headers, combined with coating and/or wrap), and I'll throw some (electronic) cash your way.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:13 AM   #6
trbowrx
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if you could get a sound clip of the perrin header that would be awesome! thats the thing that is going to make up my mind with what to go with.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:23 AM   #7
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great info! thanks for the write up!
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:08 PM   #8
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So basicly there is gain with every header without swaying from the standard cobb stg2 tune?
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:19 PM   #9
waxdass
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the IOTA ported headers and injen cross pipe look the goods. less money and performs better than most in spool.

perrin FTW

Last edited by waxdass; 05-12-2006 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:30 PM   #10
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Great summary of your work. Also, great job on keeping this unbiased and focused on the task at hand. I had some objections early on in the other thread, but I think you have done a super job of putting this ongoing argument to bed. Kudos.

PS - My Perrin coated headers will be on the car this Friday... I ordered them after I looked at your first dyno sheet examining their affect on the car. Sweet!
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:04 PM   #11
RainMaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer04STi
My Perrin coated headers will be on the car this Friday... I ordered them after I looked at your first dyno sheet examining their affect on the car. Sweet!
I took the set of Perrins, had them coated, and then wrapped them with the new copper header wrap from ThermoTec. I then used ThermoTec header wrap spray on them and installed them on my Stage4+ car on Monday. I reset the computer and now Im logging and letting the car learn. So far, I like them alot, and the sound...well, *I* like it quite a bit. I have a Borla XR1 catback, and prior to the Perrins, I thought it was too loud. Now its just fine.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:06 PM   #12
RainMaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
So basicly there is gain with every header without swaying from the standard cobb stg2 tune?
Yes. No losers.
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Old 05-03-2006, 02:18 PM   #13
innova
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Schweet! Time to buy some headers
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Old 05-03-2006, 03:30 PM   #14
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Yes very schweet. Stock to Perrin equal-length comparison shows 35tq/30hp over most of the rpm range. very impressive considering no tuning was done.

edit: ya, thanks a lot for doing this test.... your initiative is very commendable. I woulda contributed if I was thinking of buying a header in the next little while.

Last edited by Blennophobic; 05-03-2006 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 05-03-2006, 04:40 PM   #15
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Man, where can you buy the Perrin header? I can't find it on their site.


Edit, saw that it is new and not readily avalible quite yet.


$700 seems like a lot for some tubing, but if it gains 30whp it would be worth it..


I want somebody to review the $150 ebay headers

Last edited by innova; 05-03-2006 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:57 PM   #16
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under the corrected values, it seems almost as if the IOTA would be even better than the Crucials with the extra stuff crucial had on theirs? Since crucial had theirs coated and with the injen x-pipe? Although, does that mean the injen x-pipe may actually hurt the performance of the manifold? Since one would think with the coating and I'm sure very similar porting jobs wouldn't hurt the performance, the only thing left would be that x-pipe.

And can anyone explain why there's a dip in torque from 3250-3750 except from the gruppe-s headers?
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Old 05-03-2006, 07:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
Man, where can you buy the Perrin header? I can't find it on their site.


Edit, saw that it is new and not readily avalible quite yet.


$700 seems like a lot for some tubing, but if it gains 30whp it would be worth it..


I want somebody to review the $150 ebay headers
Talk to JSC Speed. They have them in stock. I should be seeing mine... tomorrow or the next day.

AND HUGE THANKS to Rainmaker and the gang who set this up. Thanks to them I have made probably the most well informed decision I've ever made with my car. The Perrins are for me... I'll be getting them coated by Crucial, too.
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Old 05-03-2006, 07:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobanaught
under the corrected values, it seems almost as if the IOTA would be even better than the Crucials with the extra stuff crucial had on theirs? Since crucial had theirs coated and with the injen x-pipe? Although, does that mean the injen x-pipe may actually hurt the performance of the manifold? Since one would think with the coating and I'm sure very similar porting jobs wouldn't hurt the performance, the only thing left would be that x-pipe.

And can anyone explain why there's a dip in torque from 3250-3750 except from the gruppe-s headers?
I think you might not be looking at the correct lines when comparing the Crucials and Iotas. The testing showed the Crucials, with the Injen pipe, started similar to the Iotas, but made more power higher in the RPM range.

Regarding the torque dip, it's directly related to boost and the behavior of the turbo. All combinations showed an initial spike of boost, than a quick drop-off. The GruppeS spooled slightly slower on the dyno, so the spike was not as dramatic, and makes for smoother torque curve.

The boost spike is very apparent in the data logs, and the GruppeS did not seem to exhibit the same lag on the road, as we saw on the dyno.

Gregg
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Old 05-03-2006, 07:39 PM   #19
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I want to add a comment regarding the GruppeS header. The hole on the outlet to the uppipe is significantly larger than the inlet hole on the factory uppipe. This creates a lip that the exhaust has to flow past while going into the uppipe.

My assumption is this header was intended to work with an aftermarket uppipe with a larger diameter.

It would be fairly easy to do some quick porting on stock uppipe flange to smooth this transition, and I would expect it should improve flow, especially in the higher RPMs. the reason we did not do this is we wanted to test all parts "as bolted on". No custom work was done in support of any manifold/headers.

I will probably be keeping this header on my car, and I intend to do this porting. If time/money allows, I will dyno again to see if it improved power. I will definitely data log and post the results.

Gregg
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:03 PM   #20
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thanks for doing the test. i like how the stock header is not the "best" like everyone has been trying to say for the longest time.
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousDX
Talk to JSC Speed. They have them in stock. I should be seeing mine... tomorrow or the next day.

AND HUGE THANKS to Rainmaker and the gang who set this up. Thanks to them I have made probably the most well informed decision I've ever made with my car. The Perrins are for me... I'll be getting them coated by Crucial, too.
You will love the coating. I know Jeremy says "it's not for looks - it works very well". That's fine and all, but I got mine yesterday and they are some of the prettiest dang headers I've ever seen. That coating is awesome looking!

Jeremy has my coating business for life...

Back on track, Rainmaker, I thought when you did your testing/dyno session wiht the Perrin headers that they were not coated yet. Is that correct? Please verify as that would make even more of a difference.
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:47 PM   #22
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Does anyone have a picture or a link to a picture of the Perrin header?
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:49 PM   #23
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A Pic is in the other thread that's linked to at the beginning of this thread...
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:52 PM   #24
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I found it...Jeez...Type a search and get pics of everything except what I wanted LOL

They look OK, kinda similar to APS but the bends dont appear as smooth.

APS were not tested so i cant really compare.
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggPDX
I want to add a comment regarding the GruppeS header. The hole on the outlet to the uppipe is significantly larger than the inlet hole on the factory uppipe. This creates a lip that the exhaust has to flow past while going into the uppipe.

My assumption is this header was intended to work with an aftermarket uppipe with a larger diameter.
I hate larger diameter uppipes. To me, that hurts spool more than anything else in the aftermarket unequal length header/uppipe combos. My former headers had a larger diameter uppipe (huge compared to stock diameter - I think 2.25" vs stock 1.75" diameter - I held them up end to end - stock vs aftermarket uppipe and compared and it actually was a much bigger difference than it sounds like) and my turbo spooled later than every other dyno of similarly modded cars that I examined. That's why I eventually abandoned them...

Last edited by SilverSurfer04STi; 05-03-2006 at 09:58 PM.
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