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Old 11-22-2006, 01:54 AM   #101
reddevil
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I dynoed today using the PP6 to tune.

My ROAD tune turned out to be 95% on. Had really nice AFRs until 4500 rpm when I maxed out the MAF . But I still kept them at 12.9-13.2 AFR)

Then I was able to tune with the supercharger turned off for when i don't want to be an idiot driving around town. Took me about 4 pulls and it was spot on 14.7 across the rpm range (give or take .5 up and down, to be expected).

Very happy with the tuning ability.
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Old 11-23-2006, 05:54 PM   #102
reddevil
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Update on maxing out the MAF and the PP6......

So I "maxed" out the maf at 4500 rpm right?

No, I maxed out the signal via the PP6 at 4500 rpm. I added too much "fuel" which was actually too much "signal". And this caused the outputted MAF signal to hit 4.98 and higher, which freaks out the NA ECU.

So I started pulling fuel out up high so that I DID NOT hit that 4.98 point. Suddenly I am not running in the 13's, but rather in the 11-1 AFR up till 5500 rpm. And this is just road tuning. I bet I could keep it 12 or lower all the way to redline now if I wanted to spend the money on the dyno. It will just take long doing it on the onramps.....
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:22 PM   #103
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Doug,

Find the max voltage of the MAF. Then go to global settings and set the analog max output to just below that voltage. That will keep the ecu happy if you do actually max the signal. Remember to watch AFRs if you are going past max voltage!

Heavy boost fuel targets are usually 11.5:1 with pump gas. Leaner to 12:1 with alky injection, and 13:1 with race gas....

Sean S.

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Old 11-24-2006, 11:51 AM   #104
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Yeah, I capped the Anolog signal at 4.98, at first, before the dyno. That was too high, as seen on the dyno. Then i lowered it to 4.9 and have been getting better results, but now I need to test and tune to see if thats too high, or if I am actually running out of fuel/signal..... over 5500 rpm. And since I am running Torco all the time, the higher AFR actually isnt horrible.

Also, on the dyno graph, the hp jumped when the AFRs climbed as well, all the more proof that running too much fuel kills power.
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Old 11-24-2006, 01:11 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
Also, on the dyno graph, the hp jumped when the AFRs climbed as well, all the more proof that running too much fuel kills power.

Exactly!

Sean S.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:58 PM   #106
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Ok, I know you guys are on an insanely high level compared to where I’m at. I hope some one might be able to save me a lot of time. I have been looking around like crazy for a wiring diagram for a 2000 SOHC 2.5RS impreza. I have tried a bunch of searches and have come up with good info but I still haven’t run across a full diagram.
Please some one
Hook it up
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:42 AM   #107
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IIRC there is one on the PerfectPower webpage. The link is in the first post of this thread.
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:32 PM   #108
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Updated software and instructions are included with current units. We have had good dyno results with these units. I am sorry about your ignitor/coil. Newer setups are all crank input unless requested otherwise.

Sean S.
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Sean, so what exactly does it this mean for us not using the crank input w/ older units. Is it just a wiring switch or will we need new harnesses.

cheers,
p
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:40 PM   #109
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The harness is the same. The crank input setup simply uses a different wiring configuration.
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:34 PM   #110
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IIRC there is one on the PerfectPower webpage. The link is in the first post of this thread.
I could only find the one for the 99, Wernt they still the series 1 2.5l? Im running the map based computer.
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:42 AM   #111
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Your wiring is the same as mine. Are you planning on using the crank sensor or the ignition signals? I have wireups for both.
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:27 PM   #112
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Your wiring is the same as mine. Are you planning on using the crank sensor or the ignition signals? I have wireups for both.
what do you suggest? if you could pm or email me them that would be great! cudaeh@yahoo.com
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:36 PM   #113
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so let me see if i get this, the crank setup fixes the inginition coil problem, are the performance gains any higher?
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:06 PM   #114
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OK, I'll ask you guys nicely: Please don't post on the following thread...

<clicky>

It's meant to be an install guide, and not an open Q&A, nor a brawl thread, nor a no-support-complaint thread, and so on.

The answer to your question, prime, is there. You will lose some tunability. Whether you'd use it depends on your application, but I'd say that the answer is yes, although how much I can't say.

I've been running for many months without blowing my coilpack, set up with the ignition wiring configuration. All it takes is simply not leaving the key set to ON with the engine not running (as stated a few times in this thread's previous pages). My Legacy can run without the PP6 (no turbo kit, etc.), so I can detatch the harness if I need to hand the car over to someone who I don't trust to remember to just turn the key off. The only downside to it that I can tell is that it's not 100% idiotproof (think Mencia's "dee dee dee" demographic).

Decide what's best for you, but I'll say this: My Rallitek "intake and cat-back" map contains advances and retards in the timing, so I'd assume that headwork, cams, headers, hi-flo cats, and anything else involving flow would capitalize on both even further. You've been warned about the key thing. Weigh the benefits of the value versus the risk (I hate to use that word here), and run with the wire-up you choose.

Stuff you can do to help you decide:
* Read my thread (here) and associated links
* Download and read the manuals I mention from the PP website
* Read as much as you can about the advantages and benefits of adjusting timing

From knowledge comes whp.

I intend to add a lot more to the thread linked above. The last time I messed with it was just before I moved into a new house, so I've been a little busy. I'd rather address questions here or in PM than there.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:48 PM   #115
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OK kids....

Finally am really USING the SMT6 to control fuel....

WHY?

Because I am running 820 cc injectors with an ECU that was set up for 270 cc injectors....

I modded STI 550 sidefeeds (ground off the tips) to become what is about 820 cc injectors... Not flow tested, but OMG, yes there is alot more fuel coming through....

At old 550 idle, I had -10.... Now I have -17, -20 while driving put put.

On boost, at 18 psi up, I was maxing out my MAF, so I was limiting the signal via SMT6 to 4.9, and combining this with the 3-1 rrfpr, I was still lean! So basically I was 0 in the far right column, nothing could be done since the MAF was maxed...

Now, with the 800 cc injectors, combined with the 3-1 rrfpr, I am -16 in the far right column, and I suspect I may need to pull even more.

So the damn thing is definately working for me. 300whp at 23 psi.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:00 AM   #116
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Sorry to come walking in here, as I donīt drive a scooby. Itīs just that smt6 info is scarce, so I kinda hope people answer some questions Iīm having.

How do you guys keep the car cranking and idling from cold with the big injector setup! The ecu is in open loop then I assume. Also at WOT is it in open loop or at least as of 80% WOT. I have ab extra injector holder from SDS, which is nicely built. But Iīd prefer a neat install (MOT in my country dissaproves anything that looks non OEM) with bigger injectors.

tia,
david

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Old 08-18-2007, 04:51 AM   #117
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It just starts. Thats all I know. Sometimes I have to keep the gas pedal pushed all the way down, which supposedly with Subies, keeps the injectors from firing off, ie lets the vehicle start with a flooded motor.....
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Old 08-18-2007, 04:56 AM   #118
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cheers for that! so it is a genuine problem. Guess Iīll find out howto tackle that once I get there. Thanks,
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:47 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Jupilerman View Post
Sorry to come walking in here, as I donīt drive a scooby. Itīs just that smt6 info is scarce, so I kinda hope people answer some questions Iīm having.

How do you guys keep the car cranking and idling from cold with the big injector setup! The ecu is in open loop then I assume. Also at WOT is it in open loop or at least as of 80% WOT. I have ab extra injector holder from SDS, which is nicely built. But Iīd prefer a neat install (MOT in my country dissaproves anything that looks non OEM) with bigger injectors.

tia,
david
David,

In general: You are using the MAF signal to re-scale your injectors(analog screen in your PerfectPower). There is a temperature compensation table to assist with warm up corrections. Prime/Cranking can not be assisted becuse your ecu is not using MAF as a reference, the values are fixed in the ecu(not usually an issue).

What year/model car do you have?

Idle and cruse need to have 14.7:1 afr targeted ro most ecus will 'learn' and start compensating for fuel trims. This can upset your tune.

Once under heavy loads, 'Open Loop' is achieved and your ecu no longer looks at it's O2 sensor for trim adjustments. This is where you will alter the actual afr. (Light loads require 14.7:1 for emissions) Use a wideband O2 sensor and watch where the afr drops. This is your open loop threshold.

Sean S.
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Old 08-18-2007, 10:51 PM   #120
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thnx alot
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Old 08-19-2007, 03:28 PM   #121
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Thanks for the explanations Sean. appreciated

I drive an MGF (rover made) not sold in the usa/canada because of emission non compliance. The newer version MG TF might be sold there in the near future, as the company (MG rover) went defunct and was bought by the chinese SAIC/Nanjing, who have aspirations over there.
It is mid engined, with 1.8 alli engine. It has a map sensor welded onto the ECU. It will move out shortly though.

At cranking I am below 400rpm. And the engine is using ECT for fueling purposes until idle has set in and it is in warm up phase. Then it refers further to ect, map, iat, tps. open loop.
So using the analoge map, I adjust the ECT voltage, that will alter fueling. But I have read somewhere, that the first row in the analogue map isnīt used. Input is merely copied. Since this fueling happens at merely 400rpm. How to deal with that? Moreover, deflection/load (horizontal row) will be very low, probably zero as the throttle is not touched.

Then there is the problem of the ecu being in open loop during hot start as well. this is because the hot fuel rail and injectors alter combustion characteristics. The same problem as above basically. Bottom row on the analog map (400rpm), low deflection (should that be 0%?) and AEng. Temp somewhere at operational (no water temp guage, so will need to log).

A whole lotta problems to solve

Ignition will stay the same at cranking. One worry less.

During further warm up, the engine uses e.a. MAP signal. Which will be customised using a lambda probe to check.

Once in closed loop, I will change the MAP signal (injection map) so that the ECU has to do minor effort to attain 14.7:1 AFR. This in conjunction with bigger injectors (300cc/min in place of 218cc/min,20.75lbs) as it will be a boosted engine. A I will be driving in closed loop most of the time (no track days at WOT ) this is the region I want everything to run smooth. Performance tuning towards 12:1 during open loop is for a later stage.

Ignition will be altered to prevent pinking of course. I have a Link knock sensor and a PLX500 logger to assist me.

The whole lot of number to fill in however is what worries me a bit.
This process is the same as other piggy backs and genuine mapable ecuīs as well actually. If there would exist a "howto" guide, on how one runs through the tables and fill in numbers based upon O2 readings (or other) that would be real nice and good for the confidence getting started.
I donīt have scanner to check on short fuel trim % i.e.

Basically you travel in every gear, running over every rpm? That seems the only way to me to cover all areas of the maps. And this out in the street Better get access to a track

Cheers,
David.
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:29 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallitek.com View Post
David,

In general: You are using the MAF signal to re-scale your injectors(analog screen in your PerfectPower). There is a temperature compensation table to assist with warm up corrections. Prime/Cranking can not be assisted becuse your ecu is not using MAF as a reference, the values are fixed in the ecu(not usually an issue).

So youīre saying that installing 50% bigger injectors is not an issue upon cranking or during warm up, when no reference to MAP/MAF is being made?
Because the smt6 has only one analogue map. so itīs either MAP/MAF or temp.

thanks,
david
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:22 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupilerman View Post
So youīre saying that installing 50% bigger injectors is not an issue upon cranking or during warm up, when no reference to MAP/MAF is being made?
Because the smt6 has only one analogue map. so itīs either MAP/MAF or temp.

thanks,
david

David,

Cranking fuel and prime are fixed. It will deliver too much fuel on start up. This is not usually a problem. (at least with our Subarus) The engines start anyway (with a bit of black soot...)
Once the engine starts the ecu looks at the MAF(or MAP), to reference it's fuel table. Your P6 can control from here. The AEngTemp column is your offset for warm up. It is a multiplication table. Adding or reducing signal based on your engine temperature. Use a monitor to watch factory ecu fuel corrections. Tune out factory correction to within 10%. From there tune open loop with a wideband O2 sensor and knock sensor.

More Info: http://www.rallitek.com/rapeecu.html

Sean S.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupilerman View Post
Thanks for the explanations Sean. appreciated

At cranking I am below 400rpm. And the engine is using ECT for fueling purposes until idle has set in and it is in warm up phase. Then it refers further to ect, map, iat, tps. open loop.
So using the analoge map, I adjust the ECT voltage, that will alter fueling.

Cheers,
David.
David,
I might be off where the Rover is concerned, but I think I am on track here...

ECT information should not be altered. The info is just shared between the factory ecu and your P6. You said the engine has a Mass Air Flow Meter. Once the engine is started the ecu must reference the MAF for air volume. ECT is just an enrichment table to the air volume. Your are doing all your fuel tuning with the analog screen. 'Injection' means additional injectors that can be operated by your P6 to keep the engine from getting lean when using stock injectors.

'Aeng Temp' can reduce the voltage from MAF to you ecu in addition to your standard analog map to prevent an over rich warm up.

Make sense?

Sean S.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:38 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupilerman View Post
This process is the same as other piggy backs and genuine mapable ecuīs as well actually. If there would exist a "howto" guide, on how one runs through the tables and fill in numbers based upon O2 readings (or other) that would be real nice and good for the confidence getting started.
I donīt have scanner to check on short fuel trim % i.e.

Basically you travel in every gear, running over every rpm? That seems the only way to me to cover all areas of the maps. And this out in the street Better get access to a track

Cheers,
David.

David,

What year is your car? The modern ecus can have a wide correction range. If corrections are off, the ecu will "learn around" your tune. A monitor for fuel trims is critical when using larger injectors with any piggyback.

You will need to check all engine rpm and load ranges. The gear you are in will not matter. Just load (MAF/MAP/TPS... which ever you choose) and RPM.

When the engine goes rich or your short term fuel trim suddenly drops to zero you are in open loop. To tune open loop use a wide band O2 sensor and Knock sensor.

Sean S.
www.RalliTEK.com

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