Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2002, 04:54 PM   #1
edkwon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 453
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: 小さいӔ
Vehicle:
2014 Audi S4 B8
Metallic Gray

Default Upgrading front brakes alone - throw off brake balance?

I'm thinking of upgrading my brakes to the Sti 4 pot/2pot sets but I've heard from some ppl that upgrading the rear brakes is kind of a waste since braking transfers most of the weight to the front wheels and brakes anyway and its not worth spending the extra money on the rears? Is this true or will it throw off the brake balance and affect handling?

Ed
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
edkwon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2002, 05:54 PM   #2
JMFInkel
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 14916
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza 2.5 RS
Rally Blue Pearl

Default

Hi, Ed.
I have the STi 4-pots and 11.6 inch rotors up front with the stock brakes and rotors at the other end (plus stainless lines all around). I haven't decided yet if the brake balance has been adversely affected.
Here's an option for you (one that I'm seriously considering, too) is to put on larger rear rotors. There's been a lot of talk lately about using the Legacy H6's larger rear rotors and caliper mounting brackets. I don't have the part numbers for you, but they're around here somewhere. I think it's only a couple hundred bucks for both rotors and brackets.
Hope that helped.
Jon
JMFInkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2002, 06:52 PM   #3
romanom
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16215
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a place with no laws, just "guidlines"
Vehicle:
2002 WR WRX wagon

Default Re: Upgrading front brakes alone - throw off brake balance?

Quote:
Originally posted by edkwon
I'm thinking of upgrading my brakes to the Sti 4 pot/2pot sets but I've heard from some ppl that upgrading the rear brakes is kind of a waste since braking transfers most of the weight to the front wheels and brakes anyway and its not worth spending the extra money on the rears? Is this true or will it throw off the brake balance and affect handling?

Ed

Don't worry about it either way. For cars whose wheel base is over 80" it won't be felt. Especially with such a front heavy car as the Impreza.

What you do have to worry about is OVER braking the rears and then getting lock up all the time. Where that point is depends on the car. See what others have done that works. I would think the H6 upgrade should be fine on the rear.

By the way the 4pot/2pot that use the same rotors as stock will NOT get you better objective performance. It will significantly improve feel but not stopping distance.


http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168098

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168033

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=159647
romanom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2002, 12:43 AM   #4
Yebisu69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver

Default Re: Re: Upgrading front brakes alone - throw off brake balance?

Quote:
Originally posted by romanom



Don't worry about it either way. For cars whose wheel base is over 80" it won't be felt. Especially with such a front heavy car as the Impreza.

What you do have to worry about is OVER braking the rears and then getting lock up all the time. Where that point is depends on the car. See what others have done that works. I would think the H6 upgrade should be fine on the rear.

By the way the 4pot/2pot that use the same rotors as stock will NOT get you better objective performance. It will significantly improve feel but not stopping distance.


http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168098

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168033

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=159647
Hey Romanom,

I respect your brake knowledge. But I think you are crusading against multi-piston brake calipers without a whole lot of objective empirical data. I understand the brakes are systematic and as such upgrades must be systematic for it to balanced system.

I've had the RS stock 10.7" front rotors w/ a 2-pot calipers and I was fading them on the NYC highways. Panic stop distances were not as short as I would have like it.

So, I upgraded the fronts to OEM WRX 11.4 front rotors and the STi 4-pot caliper. I also got Goodrich Stainless Steel brakelines and ATE Gold DOT 3-4 fluid.

I can tell you for a fact, the car stops much better than it used to. I also had opportunity to engage the new brake system in panic stops and it was a lot shorter then before.

Also, the 2 pot rear set up uses an 11.4 rotor as opposed to the 10.3 stock rotor.


edkwon,

The front sti 4-pots will upset the balance of the braking system a bit. Torque oversteer on command with just the fronts as well as a little bit of dive. I am thinking about doing the rears to balance it out a little, but the rears are expensive.

If you can do both the front and rear at the same time, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Also, if you read Romanom's thread about braking, he emphasizes balance in the brake system. So, subaru developed this braking system for this model car and its' internal brake mechanics.

I think there is something to be said about leveraging all the research and design efforts that Subaru has already done when developing there performance products.

The popular concensus is to get new rotors, pads, steel brakelines, and fluid instead of 4-pots calipers.

I suggest doing the 4-pots with new pads, steel brakelines and fluid.
Yebisu69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2002, 06:33 AM   #5
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

So why do ALL other markets get 'BETTER' brakes?

EDIT: I have the 4-pot fronts, w/ss lines and Syn fluid. MUCH better than stock...I want the 2-pot rears w/ larger, vented rotors for better balance.

So why do ALL other markets get 'BETTER' brakes?

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 05-25-2002 at 06:39 AM.
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2002, 06:46 AM   #6
romanom
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16215
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a place with no laws, just "guidlines"
Vehicle:
2002 WR WRX wagon

Default Re: Re: Re: Upgrading front brakes alone - throw off brake balance?

Quote:
Originally posted by Yebisu69


Hey Romanom,


I've had the RS stock 10.7" front rotors w/ a 2-pot calipers and I was fading them on the NYC highways. Panic stop distances were not as short as I would have like it.

So, I upgraded the fronts to OEM WRX 11.4 front rotors and the STi 4-pot caliper. I also got Goodrich Stainless Steel brakelines and ATE Gold DOT 3-4 fluid.

I can tell you for a fact, the car stops much better than it used to. I also had opportunity to engage the new brake system in panic stops and it was a lot shorter then before.

Also, the 2 pot rear set up uses an 11.4 rotor as opposed to the 10.3 stock rotor.


You went from a 10.7 to a 11.4 of course your getting better performance. The problem is many are just changing calipers and expecting to get better performance.

If you use a larger rotor that WILL help, period. That's why I said "if you use the stock rotors."

The front rear balance of brakes is not a completely direct system. You do not design the rears to match the front. You design them to brake the rears. With cars that have a long wheel base they're too far apart to look at them as a single system. You must look at them separately.
romanom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 01:22 AM   #7
bbarker1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 158206
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MoTownDubVee
Vehicle:
06 WRX
Silver

Default

This might be off topic, but i'm on a quest for knowledge. Even with a short wheel base, how would the affect that braking ability? When 'Above 80 inches' was mentioned, my mind wandered to my bike, err, heap of scrap metal i mean.
I know it's not a motorcycle forum, but I'm just curious about the physics of the whole balance of braking delima, so maybe if you would like PM me or something, that would be awsome, cause i dont wanna get you in trouble!

Thanks,
Brett
bbarker1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 01:54 AM   #8
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

i ended up doing the 'h6' rears on my bugeye

best damn mod i did to that car other than springs
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 10:43 AM   #9
Davidwrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 141028
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
WRB

Default

What was the improvement felt with this mod. I have a hard time justifying it in my mind.
Davidwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 12:52 PM   #10
watchunglava
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 168862
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Portland Maine
Vehicle:
2007 ej253n/a 5speed
Red Sox Nation Lifer

Default abs

Quote:
Originally Posted by romanom View Post
Don't worry about it either way. For cars whose wheel base is over 80" it won't be felt. Especially with such a front heavy car as the Impreza.

What you do have to worry about is OVER braking the rears and then getting lock up all the time. Where that point is depends on the car. See what others have done that works. I would think the H6 upgrade should be fine on the rear.

By the way the 4pot/2pot that use the same rotors as stock will NOT get you better objective performance. It will significantly improve feel but not stopping distance.


http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168098

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=168033

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=159647
locking up the rears with abs???? really?
watchunglava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 01:54 PM   #11
LoLoHax
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151648
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon

Default

Another very good option is to get a higher friction pad in the rear.

ex. HPS up front, HP+ out back.
LoLoHax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Throwing Off Brake Bias? kwan_1104 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 11 08-07-2009 11:46 AM
upgrade stock 06 brakes vs. sti stock brakes sonycrr Brakes, Steering & Suspension 8 01-23-2007 08:54 AM
(Please help) Brake pads or entire brake system upgrade? Jay04WRX Brakes, Steering & Suspension 8 10-30-2005 08:59 PM
Upgrade front brakes on your GC 2.5RS! Mach V Dan Suspension/Brakes/Handling 3 04-04-2005 06:01 PM
Problem with STI brakes, car brakes alone. Alfaneggio Brakes, Steering & Suspension 0 02-09-2005 01:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.