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Old 08-23-2012, 11:08 AM   #252
totalburnout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug

Sport(Olympic) judo is highly focused on the stand-up side of grappling. As a result, most judo practitioners spend significantly more time working the stand-up techniques. I watched a bunch of Olympic judo and I watched the judo worlds 2 years ago. The ground technique is nowhere near the level of elite BJJ players. (There's no doubt that the inverse is true as well. If I went a round with Poison he'd probably throw me on my head.) Heck, the armbar that won the semifinals match for Kayla Harrison was very poorly defended. I've seen this in my limited real life experiences as well. A couple years ago we had two brown belts from a local judo dojo come in a few times. Every one of our blue belts was able to tune those guys up on the ground.
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Agree on most sport judo - but the reality is, if they're training judo as a martial art and not just as sport, their ground game is still there. As everyone is realizing, they may not be as varied as BJJ practitioners on the ground but can still dominate using a single refined move.

Ronda has already stated she did significant grappling work to get to where she is - so rumor dispelled that even high level players are just throw focused. Id argue that Ronda is more dominant on the sub than the throws. A good wrestler would have a much better shot at standing upright with her.

Quote:

I agree that judo is a great base for MMA. But I don't get why you think it is more dominant than BJJ or any other art. Aside from Ronda, there really aren't any judo base fighters at a high level. It hasn't worked out for Parysian, Akiyama, Sokoudjou or Gamburyan. Probably the best one right now is Rick Hawn. He won Bellator's LW tournament and will fight for the title soon. Coincidentally, Rick teaches judo at my academy.

Oh and I think Roger Gracie has a pretty good chance at being the next dominant BJJ based MMA fighter.

p.s. Ronda's ground game is so good because she also trained/trains BJJ.
I feel it's dominant, when at such a high level, for the same reasons I've said all along. People simply aren't used to seeing it, so the counters haven't been developed by the outside world. Completely different from just straight BJJ - where I grew up wrestling and was already decent at rolling simply because I'm always aware of my hip positioning and have a solid base.

Also, not judo specific but Olympian level specific - if you're so dominate at your trade, training to fight against you is almost impossible because you usually can't find a suitable training partner that will possess the same skill set. Most of the similarly skilled people stick together and aren't willing to break the inner circle - either.

Judo against BJJ is also a best of both worlds sort of example, because you're still going to get the sub training in judo. So I think the highest level judo guys are going to spank the highest level BJJ guys that have some seriously lame take down techniques that an average wrestler can defeat.

Personally, I think it's best to be developed in all martial arts. I prefer my wrestling base combined with my Muay Thai but just like I'd like the leg dexterity of a tae kwon do fighter, if also like the balance and throw of a judo player.


Roger Gracie would get punked in the UFC. Lawal punked him with a crappy overhand right - and Lawals striking is still amateur. Again, most of the Gracie family has been eaten alive in MMA contests over at least the last 5+ years. Sorry to be the spoil sport. That dominance officially died when a juiced Royce Gracie got taken to town by Hughes. Conveniently he got pounded on the ground - which is yet another example that people can still work within very high level BJJ practitioners guards and be successful. You aren't seeing anyone that's able to stand with Rousey, yet, and not get thrown to their back. Give it time until a high level wrestler comes along. Won't be an exciting fight but they'll stand a much better chance of creating a stalemate while standing/clinched.

And again, Rousey isn't dominate on the ground BC of BJJ. She's dominate on the ground because of judo. Everything she does is classic judo. You're only thinking of sport judo and taking for granted, half of the stuff you think of as BJJ is actually classic judo. All of her transitions and positions are judo not BJJ. If she was subbing people while working around their guard or working in her guard, I'd say you were on to something but nope, not the case.
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Last edited by totalburnout; 08-23-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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