Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 24, 2017
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #26
4wdwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72042
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Sunshine
Vehicle:
2002 V7 Impreza
"Blue Mammoth" Returns

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Lee View Post
I so hope that we don't have another S2000 repeat. Another cool sports car that almost does what it should. In my opinion at that price 200hp is just embarrassing. People are going to say cool car, to bad it's so slow.
This car will not be for the posers and I am glad for that.

This is a real car for the true enthusiasts. For people who appreciate the Miata, S2000, MR-S, or Elise.

The Miata has similar power to weight ratio and a is a joy to drive.

I hope there will be a Spec BRZ/FR-S race, similar to the Spec Miata series.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
4wdwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #27
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

The only reason Spec Miata is so successful is because there are so many miatas. There are soo many miatas because it isn't enthusiast-only car.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:00 PM   #28
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Cool! Seems like a reasonable deal to me. Light rear wheel drive true sports car for under 25k. I call that a win for car enthusiests everywhere.
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:01 PM   #29
Airborne_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 93045
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Conshohocken, PA
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 5mt
2001 2.5 RS

Default

This reminds me of fragmented office conversations between several people after which people are trying to figure out the source of some "fact" only to find out that the "source" was really a question...

"Is so and so coming in on Friday?" evolves over time into, "So and so is taking a 6 month sabbatical to Papa New Guinea"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby-Doode View Post
Wasn't the car suppose to be under $20K?

Last edited by Airborne_J; 03-22-2012 at 01:08 PM.
Airborne_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:33 PM   #30
LoveMyCoupe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257123
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The only reason Spec Miata is so successful is because there are so many miatas. There are soo many miatas because it isn't enthusiast-only car.
Very true.

A couple of years ago when I was looking for a sports car, it simply amazed me that the Miata was even available with an automatic.
After talking with 3 or 4 people who were driving a Miata, I came to the conclusion that there are a bunch of people who want to appear sporty without going to the effort of driving a standard or taking a performance driving class to learn how to actually make use of the capability a good handling car offers.

In my mind I equate it to the weekend Harley crowd who like to feel like bikers without any of the hassle that goes along with riding in the cold or rain.
LoveMyCoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:46 PM   #31
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMyCoupe View Post
Very true.

A couple of years ago when I was looking for a sports car, it simply amazed me that the Miata was even available with an automatic.
After talking with 3 or 4 people who were driving a Miata, I came to the conclusion that there are a bunch of people who want to appear sporty without going to the effort of driving a standard or taking a performance driving class to learn how to actually make use of the capability a good handling car offers.

In my mind I equate it to the weekend Harley crowd who like to feel like bikers without any of the hassle that goes along with riding in the cold or rain.
It doesn't matter how you drive.. a top-down blast in a Miata is more fun than any normal commuter car.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #32
e11ys
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77106
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lexington, SC
Vehicle:
'02 Brodozer
'11 Outback 3.6R

Default

It's about $1,500-$2,000 above what I was expecting, but I'd say it's still a good deal for what you're getting. Unfortunately that will probably mean the BRZ starts around $27k. Standard HID's, Nav, etc is going to add a few grand. That's still not a big deal, since options like that are not cheap to add, but it might hurt for people that want the Subaru version but don't want to pay high $20k's for it. Maybe the pricing will come down if sales aren't what they expect, but for some reason I don't think they'll have trouble selling these for whatever they ask.
e11ys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:04 PM   #33
express_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68346
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2001 M5
2013 Abarth Cabrio

Default

I don't see how anyone can say this car is overpriced. Asking price of ~$24k for a newly designed RWD sports car, 6spd manual, modern day safety equipment, desired performance hardware, while keeping it fairly light, there's really not much more you can ask for. The car is still made for the masses, you can't expect the company to de-content it that much.

A comparable brand new Miata is roughly the same price with a little less power, open diff, and 5spd manual. Pricing for this ToyoBaru is reasonable and competitive in my opinion.

It's refreshing to see a car like this offered in America.
express_wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:06 PM   #34
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2017 AMG C43

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
It's about $3000 overpriced IMO. Unless it comes pretty well equiped.

Even if that's the case I would still rather have a cheaper stripper version.


You can get a Juke for $19,900 and that comes with AWD, or a Veloster for $18,000 (turbo is rumored at $21k-$22k).
Granted these are completely different cars, but noone except enthusiasts are going to know how different they are.
This car is geared towards enthusiasts, so who cares about everyone else.

And I can guarantee most people can discern between a little hatchback, a little SOV, and a 2 door sports car. That's like saying most people can't tell the difference between a miata and a murano convertible.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:09 PM   #35
wrxsubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65133
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne_J View Post
This reminds me of fragmented office conversations between several people after which people are trying to figure out the source of some "fact" only to find out that the "source" was really a question...

"Is so and so coming in on Friday?" evolves over time into, "So and so is taking a 6 month sabbatical to Papa New Guinea"
Originally 5 years ago or so Subaru said there target was the very young crowd and said their target price was under 20K. I was planning on purchasing one because of that, but as the delays mounted and the the car gained features and horsepower Subaru hinted at a higher cost. The 18K estimate did not seem to last to long but that was the original idea, 18K or so, 2500 pounds and 180 hp.
wrxsubaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:25 PM   #36
justincredible
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83633
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: The Mountains
Vehicle:
2012 bright green
box

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
And I can guarantee most people can discern between a little hatchback, a little SOV, and a 2 door sports car. That's like saying most people can't tell the difference between a miata and a murano convertible.
I think you give the general public too much credit.
Yes, they can see that the cars all look different, but they will also lump them into a category based on size, power, and engine size.

Pop over to the BRZ thread or Edmunds (straightline blog) and look at how many people are comparing this car to the V6 Mustang and Camaro, and the only thing it has in common with them is they all happen to be RWD.

Last edited by justincredible; 03-22-2012 at 02:31 PM.
justincredible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #37
Stanley
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7374
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Bay, SFCA
Vehicle:
2007 Grandpamobile
BlingBlingBlue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMyCoupe View Post
After talking with 3 or 4 people who were driving a Miata, I came to the conclusion that there are a bunch of people who want to appear sporty without going to the effort of driving a standard or taking a performance driving class to learn how to actually make use of the capability a good handling car offers.
Or that there are folks who want a convertible that A) doesn't break the bank or B)look like a Camry...
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #38
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkers View Post
I think he's saying a 200hp Civic Si is over $20K so why wouldn't a 200hp RWD sports car be a bit more?
Exactly. And even with the Civic Si, I think it broke the $20k barrier by the 2007 model year, and it's currently in the $22k range.

I was hoping for it to start at around the same, which would slaughter the Civic Si coupe's sales (as I think only die-hard Honda enthusiasts would pick it over a similarly-priced FR-S, unless there ends up being some major issue with the FR-S requiring lots of recalls), but I figured they would price it slightly higher, make a few extra bucks and still be competitive sales-wise. I was thinking $23k, so the $24,200 base price (without the destination charge) is a little higher than what I had expected, especially when you realize that Scions have pure pricing (so you cannot negotiate the sale price of a new Scion) while its competitors priced similarly can probably get the price reduced with some haggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
It's about $3000 overpriced IMO. Unless it comes pretty well equiped.
I don't think it's going to be equipped the way you think. Remember that the BRZ is going to get the nicer interior that we've seen in pictures, matching what the Toyota GT-86 is getting. The Scion FR-S variant is getting cheaper interior pieces, like the ribbed HVAC knobs that are used in the entire Scion lineup. It's probably not going to have much fancy stuff, but we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRoo View Post
BRZ really doesn't have THAT much more than the FRS. Really just the standard NAV....i'm still expecting a little over 25 for the premium and maybe another 2k for the limited.
But the entire dashboard and HVAC controls are different units that are much nicer... not that it really affects the car's operations much, but it's a better interior overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e11ys View Post
It's about $1,500-$2,000 above what I was expecting, but I'd say it's still a good deal for what you're getting. Unfortunately that will probably mean the BRZ starts around $27k. Standard HID's, Nav, etc is going to add a few grand. That's still not a big deal, since options like that are not cheap to add, but it might hurt for people that want the Subaru version but don't want to pay high $20k's for it. Maybe the pricing will come down if sales aren't what they expect, but for some reason I don't think they'll have trouble selling these for whatever they ask.
This.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 03:14 PM   #39
mpristave
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284761
Join Date: Jun 2011
Vehicle:
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
This car will not be for the posers and I am glad for that.

This is a real car for the true enthusiasts. For people who appreciate the Miata, S2000, MR-S, or Elise.
I guarantee every driftkid who is 18 and works at taco bel or pizzahut will own one or want one. This is the ultimate ride for scions target audience.
mpristave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 03:18 PM   #40
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
I guarantee every driftkid who is 18 and works at taco bel or pizzahut will own one or want one. This is the ultimate ride for scions target audience.
Yup. It's got the wrong badge if their goal was to appeal only to the "true enthusiasts" and not to "posers." They'll be appealing to both, so we will certainly see some ******** doing fly-bys on the freeway in these in the coming months, just like we will likely see these at autocross events.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 04:45 PM   #41
express_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68346
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2001 M5
2013 Abarth Cabrio

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
I guarantee every driftkid who is 18 and works at taco bel or pizzahut will own one or want one. This is the ultimate ride for scions target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
Yup. It's got the wrong badge if their goal was to appeal only to the "true enthusiasts" and not to "posers." They'll be appealing to both, so we will certainly see some ******** doing fly-bys on the freeway in these in the coming months, just like we will likely see these at autocross events.
I really don't see these cars being owned by a lot of teens for a while. At $24k+, it's down too far on power. Say even if they had the money to buy brand new, they'd probably go with a turbo Genesis coupe which has significantly more power and be at a lower price, or perhaps a new V6 Stang. I remember what I wanted at 18, it's definitely more power than handling. As I got older, my cars have been progressively slower. Now neither of my cars can break 0-60 in 9 seconds.

10 years from now, different story, the twins could be $5k (or whatever equivalent in value in 2022) cars and become the next 240SX.

Have the fuel economy numbers been released for these cars yet? If they can produce 30s on the highway, then I can see more people buying it as commuters but if it stays even in the high 20s hwy, this will be a niche car.
express_wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 04:49 PM   #42
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
Yup. It's got the wrong badge if their goal was to appeal only to the "true enthusiasts" and not to "posers." They'll be appealing to both, so we will certainly see some ******** doing fly-bys on the freeway in these in the coming months, just like we will likely see these at autocross events.
Luckily, they've priced it out of the poser price range Not to say they haven't priced some enthusiasts as well, but there's always the used market.

One year down the road, if the early-adopters are saying "the handling is great, but I can't live with this car", you'll see them on the used car market for cheap and you'll know that they were overpriced. Or, if people are holding onto them, you'll know that the price was perfect.
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #43
alphaomega0
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 147678
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: montreal
Vehicle:
07 wrx
obsidien black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
I don't see how anyone can say this car is overpriced. Asking price of ~$24k for a newly designed RWD sports car, 6spd manual, modern day safety equipment, desired performance hardware, while keeping it fairly light, there's really not much more you can ask for. The car is still made for the masses, you can't expect the company to de-content it that much.

A comparable brand new Miata is roughly the same price with a little less power, open diff, and 5spd manual. Pricing for this ToyoBaru is reasonable and competitive in my opinion.

It's refreshing to see a car like this offered in America.
miata also weights 300lbs less, been on the road for a while so you know where you stand with that car, has a trubo which has a better potential when tuned, never the less its not something i would get personally
alphaomega0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 05:04 PM   #44
express_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68346
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2001 M5
2013 Abarth Cabrio

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaomega0 View Post
miata also weights 300lbs less, been on the road for a while so you know where you stand with that car, has a trubo which has a better potential when tuned, never the less its not something i would get personally
Mazda hasn't offered a turbo MX5 in years. They are not cheap to make it significantly faster, neither will be the twins. Now I haven't done much aftermarket research on the Genesis 2.0T, but I imagine cranking out some extra ponies shouldn't cost all too much. It already has something like 270hp to begin with.
express_wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 05:42 PM   #45
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Luckily, they've priced it out of the poser price range Not to say they haven't priced some enthusiasts as well, but there's always the used market.
The line between posers and enthusiasts has nothing to do with income.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #46
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
I really don't see these cars being owned by a lot of teens for a while. At $24k+, it's down too far on power. Say even if they had the money to buy brand new, they'd probably go with a turbo Genesis coupe which has significantly more power and be at a lower price, or perhaps a new V6 Stang. I remember what I wanted at 18, it's definitely more power than handling. As I got older, my cars have been progressively slower. Now neither of my cars can break 0-60 in 9 seconds.
There's no guarantee of that. Sure, it's far less powerful compared to a lot of other vehicles in that price range, but remember that Scion as a whole is marketed toward a younger crowd, plus with kids who may still be under their parents' financial umbrella, the lower hp figure may win some of their parents over while potentially having lower insurance rates compared to its more powerful competitors (at least until people start crashing them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
Have the fuel economy numbers been released for these cars yet? If they can produce 30s on the highway, then I can see more people buying it as commuters but if it stays even in the high 20s hwy, this will be a niche car.
Autoblog said the manual transmission is rated at 21/30, while the auto is supposedly at 25/34.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Luckily, they've priced it out of the poser price range Not to say they haven't priced some enthusiasts as well, but there's always the used market.
Not all posers are restricted to sub-$20k cars, unless you believe that every Porsche owner on the road is a real enthusiast who is serious about motorsports.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #47
e11ys
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77106
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lexington, SC
Vehicle:
'02 Brodozer
'11 Outback 3.6R

Default

I'm not sure I understand the attitude that this car is somehow a bad proposition compared to the 2.0T Gen Coupe. The FR-S will more than likely be just as fast, get the same gas mileage, cost less and handle significantly better. The GC is much more powerful, but it also weighs more than 600 lbs more than the FR-S. Am I missing something?
e11ys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:34 PM   #48
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

I posted the data in the BRZ thread yesterday.

GC has similar economy, similar price, and a SIGNIFICANTLY better power to weight ratio.

Weight is the only advantage BRZ has, and turning and braking are the only things it might have an advantage on... depending on the quality of the brakes, tires, and dampers.

FRS will not be just as fast. Will not cost less, and for all of that... won't get significantly better fuel economy either. That is the problem. The weight reduction also means that it is more cramped to sit in and drive, which becomes an issue the longer of a trip you take, or if your knees hit the steering wheel when using the clutch and the brakes a lot.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:49 PM   #49
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Mahwah, New Jersey
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ Ltd 6MT CBS
SNOSLO

Default

My knees only hit my steering wheel after someone else has adjusted my steering wheel too low. That was when I let others drive my car. It's been mostly me, so, yeah, not an issue as of late.

People (not aimed at you, Hip) need to start admitting to themselves whether they just want magazine-racing straightline speed or a car that's both easy AND fun to handle on a continual basis.

People also need to stop acting like they live in places where they can utilize 300+HP around every corner and turn.

200HP for a car that's consistently being touted as being fun to drive seems reasonable to me.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:53 PM   #50
alphaomega0
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 147678
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: montreal
Vehicle:
07 wrx
obsidien black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
Mazda hasn't offered a turbo MX5 in years. They are not cheap to make it significantly faster, neither will be the twins. Now I haven't done much aftermarket research on the Genesis 2.0T, but I imagine cranking out some extra ponies shouldn't cost all too much. It already has something like 270hp to begin with.
hmm didnt know about the turbo part, yeah the genesis 2t has very good potential in terms of mods a tuned versions would give a stage 2 sti a run for its money around the track, althought its a bit on the piggy side
alphaomega0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Cranking, car will start when push started. Luckyduck919 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 3 11-28-2010 02:21 AM
Donde est el estacionamiento para el Subaru? : Rally Catalunya starts March 24! WagonMonster Motorsports 106 04-01-2006 03:04 PM
Don't 'Pooh' yourself, 100 Acre Woods Pro-Rally starts Feb 24! XenoWolf Motorsports 15 02-23-2006 08:58 AM
Todays drift event @ etown w/ Signal Auto will start at 3PM! Fat Tits Tri-State Area Forum 6 09-25-2003 02:18 PM
When do you think the war will start? PhlypSide Off-Topic 27 03-17-2003 11:57 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.