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Old 09-18-2014, 08:53 AM   #976
xluben
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Put on a KillerB header last night!



Unfortunately the custom EWG setup wouldn't clear my downpipe so we had to improvise an EWG block off plate. I'll probably have to pick up a different downpipe to make it fit.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:02 PM   #977
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or you can just go rotated already.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:22 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
or you can just go rotated already.
No way. 10 sec stock location.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:31 PM   #979
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since when is 10.9 a 10 second car
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:39 PM   #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
since when is 10.9 a 10 second car
Since drag racing was invented.

AP EL header is for sale! 10 second headers! See here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2666209
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:40 PM   #981
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when you owe it to Toretto, it counts
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:41 PM   #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
when you owe it to Toretto, it counts
Exactly. It's not whether you win by and inch or a mile. Winning is winning.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:06 PM   #983
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Nice build, man!
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Old 09-21-2014, 02:58 PM   #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
when you owe it to Toretto, it counts
Truth!
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:12 AM   #985
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Quick speedo video with the KillerB header that I put on over the weekend.


50-100mph time on this is just under 4.3 seconds. I was in the 4.6 to 4.7s range prior.


*Stock photo from RSD. Mine is actually a standard one with a custom EWG flange and dump.

Just for fun I'll be going on the local Mustang Dyno at RS Motors this weekend. Any guesses what I'll make?
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:35 AM   #986
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So there are definitive gains from the KB even though you already ran a ELH?
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:22 AM   #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladiWrX View Post
So there are definitive gains from the KB even though you already ran a ELH?
It sure seems like it. I've done at least 10-20 video'd or logged 50-100 run with this turbo, both on the stock header and the AP EL header and they were in the 4.7-4.8s range with the stock header and just a hair lower, 4.6-4.7s with the AP EL. The stock header w/GrimmSpeed crosspipe did fairly well vs. a normal EL header it seems.

The two pulls I did on video with the KillerB header were 4.27s and 4.28s One was a 1,2,3,4th gear (only 2,3,4 are used in the 50-100 range) and one was just 3rd and 4th but both had similar times (this is normally what I see, 2,3,4 is in boost the whole time, but has an extra shift while 3-4 has 1 less shift but is just coming into boost in 3rd at 50mph).
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:36 AM   #988
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Full list of updates from last week/weekend:
  • 9/17 (Wed): Installed KillerB Header and uppipe w/custom EWG setup. EWG wouldn't clear downpipe so a DIY EWG block off plate was installed. Car was driven with with care taken not to overboost.
  • 9/18 (Thurs): Swapped downpipe for an HKS flat plate downpipe. Very easy to work on, easy access to bolts. Fits perfectly with EWG setup. Cheap. Highly recommended for anyone with an EWG (bellmouth or divorced is not needed).
  • 9/19 (Fri): Wired in a serial cable for logging my AEM wideband. Tuned with Nuke. Smoothed out AFR's. Car is still hesitating in the 3,500-4,000 rpm range. This has been an ongoing issue for months. Have tried many things (plugs, coil packs, exhaust leaks, injectors, fuel filter, etc, etc), but nothing has worked so far.
  • 9/20 (Sat): Shot a wedding. Didn't work on car
  • 9/21 (Sun): Swapped fuel rails. Car had 08 STI stock rails installed and the GR STI's have a known "stumble" issue. Put the stock 02 WRX rails back on. This smoothed out a small fueling annomoly in the 2,500 rpm range (normal stumble range), but the bigger hesitation close to 4,000 rpm was unchanged.
  • 9/22 (Mon): Actually late Sunday night, but it was well after midnight at this point. Swapped the cam position sensor and the hesitation is completely gone. My car uses the Cosworth cam sensor bracket, so I'm not sure if it was a bad sensor or just bad placement with the bracket (known issue). I'll keep an eye on it in the future and shim it if necessary.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:03 PM   #989
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Tell me more about your hesitation you are having. I have a handful of cars tuned with the CarBerry rom now and my wife's and the 7670 WRX both have some weird hesitation issues that I just cannot get tuned out no matter what I try. The logs don't show what the issue is and trying different things with fuel, timing and avcs and nothing helps the issue. It seems to come on around 2 - 5 psi. If you push through it its fine.

Speaking of avcs - on a dual avcs cars, to have zero over lap, the intake cam gets set to zero and the exhaust came gets set to 17*. At rest, zero on both, there is technically 17* of advance on the exhaust cam. Once you leave rest, ie, start driving, normal avcs mapping commands the exhaust cam up to 17 or more. More than 17 retards it giving you more overlap. In general that's used for spool up and then taken out by the time the turbo is spooled up. After that, at least 17* and in some cases a little more (say 20*) is held out to redline.

If your cams just stay at rest all the time, I would think you have a constant 17* advance on the exhaust side. That probably isn't doing you any favors up top in terms of volumetric efficiency with your exhaust cams essentially opening a bit early. Maybe it really doesn't have that much impact but it makes me wonder. Has Nuke mentioned this at all as a possible concern? Would be curious to see what he thinks. It could possibly be related to your hesitation but its hard to say. I know when my car is still in warm-up logic, I have zero cam movement and if I start driving, I feel hesitation and loss of power in a similar area. Once the avcs comes on, everything feels normal.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Tell me more about your hesitation you are having. I have a handful of cars tuned with the CarBerry rom now and my wife's and the 7670 WRX both have some weird hesitation issues that I just cannot get tuned out no matter what I try. The logs don't show what the issue is and trying different things with fuel, timing and avcs and nothing helps the issue. It seems to come on around 2 - 5 psi. If you push through it its fine.

Speaking of avcs - on a dual avcs cars, to have zero over lap, the intake cam gets set to zero and the exhaust came gets set to 17*. At rest, zero on both, there is technically 17* of advance on the exhaust cam. Once you leave rest, ie, start driving, normal avcs mapping commands the exhaust cam up to 17 or more. More than 17 retards it giving you more overlap. In general that's used for spool up and then taken out by the time the turbo is spooled up. After that, at least 17* and in some cases a little more (say 20*) is held out to redline.

If your cams just stay at rest all the time, I would think you have a constant 17* advance on the exhaust side. That probably isn't doing you any favors up top in terms of volumetric efficiency with your exhaust cams essentially opening a bit early. Maybe it really doesn't have that much impact but it makes me wonder. Has Nuke mentioned this at all as a possible concern? Would be curious to see what he thinks. It could possibly be related to your hesitation but its hard to say. I know when my car is still in warm-up logic, I have zero cam movement and if I start driving, I feel hesitation and loss of power in a similar area. Once the avcs comes on, everything feels normal.
It was like a misfire that would happen right before 4,000rpms. It was originally only felt at partial throttle, nothing at WOT. Nuke was able to somewhat tune around it to minimize it. Then recently it started happening even on WOT pulls. Same story as yours in that if you got past that range it was like normal (hence no issues at the dragstrip).

None of the other attempts fixed the issue, but swapping the cam sensor (on the Cosworth bracket, because I have an AVCS motor in my non AVCS car) cured it immediately. My car never threw a cam sensor code, but some people have seen this with the Cosworth bracket and had to shim the sensor.

My car has single AVCS cams. The intake side has AVCS cam gears and AVCS cams (but are not functioning). The exhaust has NON AVCS cam gears and NON AVCS cams. To address the cam timing issue on the intake side we advanced the timing by one tooth. This will put the AVCS cams/gears approx where the NON AVCS would end up.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8&postcount=30

If I went back a tooth and was fully retarded I could probably get some more top end back (this is how the car originally was running), but as-is it should be similar to if I had NON AVCS cams. I don't think this had anything to do with the hesitation. It appears it was 100% due to the sensor (bad sensor or improper air gap I don't know).
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:56 PM   #991
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
It was like a misfire that would happen right before 4,000rpms. It was originally only felt at partial throttle, nothing at WOT. Nuke was able to somewhat tune around it to minimize it. Then recently it started happening even on WOT pulls. Same story as yours in that if you got past that range it was like normal (hence no issues at the dragstrip).

None of the other attempts fixed the issue, but swapping the cam sensor (on the Cosworth bracket, because I have an AVCS motor in my non AVCS car) cured it immediately. My car never threw a cam sensor code, but some people have seen this with the Cosworth bracket and had to shim the sensor.

My car has single AVCS cams. The intake side has AVCS cam gears and AVCS cams (but are not functioning). The exhaust has NON AVCS cam gears and NON AVCS cams. To address the cam timing issue on the intake side we advanced the timing by one tooth. This will put the AVCS cams/gears approx where the NON AVCS would end up.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8&postcount=30

If I went back a tooth and was fully retarded I could probably get some more top end back (this is how the car originally was running), but as-is it should be similar to if I had NON AVCS cams. I don't think this had anything to do with the hesitation. It appears it was 100% due to the sensor (bad sensor or improper air gap I don't know).
Ahh, ok. I wasn't sure how you had yours cams setup.

Interesting that the cam sensor swap fixed it. If I go back to the MAF based rom on my wfie's car, everything is fine. If I put it on the CarBerry rom with the exact same boost/fuel/timing/avcs in the same area, the issue is there and it does feel like misfire. I doubt this rom would pick up the cam signal differently but maybe its something to look at.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:01 PM   #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Ahh, ok. I wasn't sure how you had yours cams setup.

Interesting that the cam sensor swap fixed it. If I go back to the MAF based rom on my wfie's car, everything is fine. If I put it on the CarBerry rom with the exact same boost/fuel/timing/avcs in the same area, the issue is there and it does feel like misfire. I doubt this rom would pick up the cam signal differently but maybe its something to look at.
Is her car non AVCS with AVCS heads? If it is, it must be using a similar bracket to hold the sensor. Maybe just try wiggling it around or add a washer to space out the sensor.

I just bought an AccessPort so I hope the issue doesn't come back once I switch to that...
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:11 PM   #993
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Is her car non AVCS with AVCS heads? If it is, it must be using a similar bracket to hold the sensor. Maybe just try wiggling it around or add a washer to space out the sensor.

I just bought an AccessPort so I hope the issue doesn't come back once I switch to that...
Its a version 8 JDM EJ207 motor so it has single AVCS heads. I'll have to look closer at how the sensors are mounted and maybe try a washer.

I don't see why the AP would introduce any new issues for you. Should work great.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:17 PM   #994
xluben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Its a version 8 JDM EJ207 motor so it has single AVCS heads. I'll have to look closer at how the sensors are mounted and maybe try a washer.

I don't see why the AP would introduce any new issues for you. Should work great.
Yeah, that motor would have the dual cam sensors on the back of the heads. And the car would need the single sensor on the front of the driver side head. I assume it must be there somehow.

EDIT:

http://elementtuning.com/techdocs/ej...llation-guide/
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:33 AM   #995
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A couple new things from last night.

COBB AccessPort V3



AccessPort installed and OEM 04 Tail Lights



Daytime Shot of the 04 Tail Lights



EDIT: Before and After


Last edited by xluben; 09-26-2014 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:52 PM   #996
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Very cool about the header.

Why did you go APV3?
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:14 AM   #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladiWrX View Post
Very cool about the header.

Why did you go APV3? thinking of speed density next?
I have been on speed density the whole time.

AccessPort allows live tuning which makes things quicker/easier.

Also nice to have 6 live gauges and easy data logging.
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Old 09-29-2014, 09:01 AM   #998
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I had my car dyno'd at the MNSubaru 10 Year Anniversary Meet and Dyno Day held at RS Motors on Saturday.

The car made 457WHP/ 422WTQ on a Mustang Dyno (for reference the car ran 10.9s @ 126mph the last time at the track).





Here's a larger version of the plot:



RS was nice enough to log the pulls on my AccessPort, so here's a Virtual Dyno comparison just for fun.



I have the weight set to 3500lbs and the calibration set to "Mustang" and the numbers are pretty close.

Change the calibration to "Dynojet" (what I normally use) and the numbers go to 525WHP.



Compare that to my most recent road log and it reads 525WHP with the weight set to 3300lbs.



Typically I've just been using the default 07 STI profile (same chassis and gearing as my car, but higher weight) and that makes it read 561WHP.



No real point to all this, other than to show that dyno numbers (especially Virtual Dyno) can be manipulated considerably. But if you do have the correct inputs, the numbers can be very close and the curves look quite similar to on an actual dyno.

The only thing I think I really need to take away from this is that the 3300lbs (3100lb car + 200lb driver) is likely going to be better than the 3550lb (3350lb car + 200lb driver) that I had been using in the past.

The car was under 3000lbs on the scale at the track but that was with floor mats out, no tools, glove box and center console cleared out, no Recaro baby seat, etc. Around 3100lbs on the street is probably pretty close.
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Old 09-29-2014, 04:18 PM   #999
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Quick little comparison of the powerband on some different Subaru turbo setups.

All of these were cars run on the same Mustang dyno and the same day. Manually plotted in Excel.

457WHP - 422WTQ - 2002 - Subaru - WRX - E85 - 27.9PSI - 60-1 - 2.5L - 6MT, FMIC, EWG, etc.
343WHP - 360WTQ - 2008 - Subaru - WRX - E85 - 23.5PSI - 68HTA - 2.5L - FMIC, EWG, etc.
256WHP - 257WTQ - 2015 - Subaru - STI - Pump - 15.5PSI - Stock - 2.5L - Stock
204WHP - 192WTQ - 2002 - Subaru - WRX - Pump - 13.9PSI - TD04 - 2.0L - Stage 2

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Old 09-29-2014, 04:34 PM   #1000
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The heart breaker dyno
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