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Old 02-14-2017, 10:21 PM   #1776
subydude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoky View Post
Hey, anybody running TPMS sensor? Worth it or not?
No, not worth it.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:07 PM   #1777
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Quote:
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Hey, anybody running TPMS sensor? Worth it or not?
Just extra weight in the wheels.
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Old 02-24-2017, 03:41 PM   #1778
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So its turns out VP won't sell C85 in NY state any longer. Looks like I'll be going in for a retune with some X98.

Anyone have any experience running this high an ethanol content?

Wondering if my little ID1000 are up for the task.
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Old 02-24-2017, 03:48 PM   #1779
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Anything higher than E85 is not legal. Has to be a federally approved non-oxygenated fuel.
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Old 02-24-2017, 04:16 PM   #1780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Anything higher than E85 is not legal. Has to be a federally approved non-oxygenated fuel.
Hmm interesting, I never realized, come to think of it I don't think I've ever read the fuel limitations SCCA has.

I can run C116 since it technically gasoline yet am limited to E85? Doesn't seem like that make sense to me.

I feel like that provision should just state federally approved ethanol. I'd bet when it was written nothing but E85 existed, no?
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Old 02-24-2017, 04:25 PM   #1781
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Actually after re-reading the paragraph I feel like calling it E85 is inappropriate since the statement before says I can use any grade of it.

3.6 FUEL
A. Street and Street Touring® category vehicles will use fuel which is “Fed- erally approved for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at
service station pumps. Fuels comprised of more than 15% ethanol may
only be used when specified by the manufacturer (e.g., in the owner’s
manual for flex-fuel vehicles).
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by Section 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified category vehicles may use diesel
fuel, any grade of gasoline, or Federally-approved E85. Gasolines consist
entirely of hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants,
metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such
as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited
except for those originally present in fuel which is Federally approved
for use on public highways. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives
are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems.
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:11 PM   #1782
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I had talked to some higher up people about the rule and the issue is changing it would also affect SP. Also, the vibe seemed to be "let's not force people who at least have access to E85 to still buy something else".

I'm a bit spoiled since I have a few E85 stations here in town and it's pretty consistent all year round.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:13 AM   #1783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Anything higher than E85 is not legal. Has to be a federally approved non-oxygenated fuel.
this is not an accurate statement for SM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:23 AM   #1784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griceiv View Post
this is not an accurate statement for SM.
It didn't used to be. They changed the wording earlier in the rule book. It used to be worded for any class sp and up could run any mix of allowed chemicals in gasoline as long as the mixture included gasoline. So you could run 99% mbte and 1% gasoline for instance. Or 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline. But they changed it like last year. Basically as it's written making your own mix that's 82% e98 and 18% pump 93 e10 would be legal.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:43 PM   #1785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
It didn't used to be. They changed the wording earlier in the rule book. It used to be worded for any class sp and up could run any mix of allowed chemicals in gasoline as long as the mixture included gasoline. So you could run 99% mbte and 1% gasoline for instance. Or 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline. But they changed it like last year. Basically as it's written making your own mix that's 82% e98 and 18% pump 93 e10 would be legal.
the only change that happened to 3.6.b is the words "federally approved E85" were added. the provision that allows E98 is not the 'federally approved E85' it is the 'any grade of gasoline' statement coupled with the section that states "Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited except for those originally present in fuel which is Federally approved for use on public highways", as ethanol is a federally approved additive. Things like MS109 (heavily oxygenated with MTBE) and Q16 (also heavily oxygenated) are still legal with the current wording.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:03 PM   #1786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griceiv View Post
the only change that happened to 3.6.b is the words "federally approved E85" were added. the provision that allows E98 is not the 'federally approved E85' it is the 'any grade of gasoline' statement coupled with the section that states "Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited except for those originally present in fuel which is Federally approved for use on public highways", as ethanol is a federally approved additive. Things like MS109 (heavily oxygenated with MTBE) and Q16 (also heavily oxygenated) are still legal with the current wording.
That's news to me Marshall. The last few times we've commented on this, including on calls we've all said that E98 is not legal. I think we're going to need a clarification on this at some point now because the entire SMAC thinks otherwise.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:53 PM   #1787
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There was a clarification way back in 2009.
https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1432907320

"- With regard to fuel, additives such as MTBE, ethanol, and methanol are considered to meet the requirement of 3.6.B, which
states that such additives are only permitted if they are ones which are found in service station pump fuel as defined in 3.6.A.
(ref. 08-725)"

They list all of the federally approved additives on the EPA website.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-gas.htm

Last edited by griceiv; 02-28-2017 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:12 PM   #1788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griceiv View Post
There was a clarification way back in 2009.
https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1432907320

"- With regard to fuel, additives such as MTBE, ethanol, and methanol are considered to meet the requirement of 3.6.B, which
states that such additives are only permitted if they are ones which are found in service station pump fuel as defined in 3.6.A.
(ref. 08-725)"

They list all of the federally approved additives on the EPA website.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-gas.htm
Which means if its on that list its good to go as long as its mixed with a little bit of hydrocarbons, aka gasoline. So since methanol is on that list I guess running methanol is legal. I had to control F the rule book because I swore there was a rule specifically banning it in section 3 but its not there and methanol is only banned if its injected not as the primary fuel source or in FJx.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:38 PM   #1789
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Thanks for the clarification all! Back to my plan of running x98. I really need the convenience of the sealed 5 gallon jugs for my own ease of operations.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:13 PM   #1790
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Congrats to Tim White for the big wins at Ft. Meyers and Dixie! Great start to the 2017 season.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:59 PM   #1791
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Thanks Roy Just gotta keep making it faster.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #1792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinachill View Post
Congrats to Tim White for the big wins at Ft. Meyers and Dixie! Great start to the 2017 season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Thanks Roy Just gotta keep making it faster.
Oh the Tim White hyperlink..https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0162EUA8Y...link_insert-20

Gold! Guess I know what gift I'm bringing to nats...

Congrats! Give me tires!
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:20 PM   #1793
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Originally Posted by mccanixx View Post
Oh the Tim White hyperlink..https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0162EUA8Y...link_insert-20

Gold! Guess I know what gift I'm bringing to nats...

Congrats! Give me tires!
I need to get a jacket to iron it on first
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:36 PM   #1794
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Obligatory 5,000th post on Nasioc. Damn, I've been here a while now.

Evidently I'm a guru now
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:43 PM   #1795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Obligatory 5,000th post on Nasioc. Damn, I've been here a while now.

Evidently I'm a guru now
Apparently I listen too much and talk too little.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:23 PM   #1796
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Apparently I listen too much and talk too little.
428 posts in 16 years. That's impressive.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:16 PM   #1797
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Noob to SM question... Having recently left STX via semi-accidentally going a bit upgrade nuts while recovering from a blown motor I'd love to put my currently portly 02 wagon on a serious diet and simplify frequently worked on areas as much as possible in the process. I see a lot of random comments on various SM related threads on various sites about small incremental weight reductions via angle grinders and such but the only allowance for such things that I see is the rule that allows sub 1lb reductions and modifications "to facilitate the installation of allowed parts or modifications". Which also includes a warning that competitors are "strongly cautioned to make the minimum amount of modification required" and to "not make unduly tortured interpretations of this rule". Which I'm having a hard time not doing...

Where does the safe side of the grinder gray area end? When doing legal deletes, is it legal for unneeded brackets, and welded in nuts/bolts to go away? What about random unneeded brackets that weigh less than 1lb each that are slightly in the way when working on certain things to happen to disappear?

Or, I've got a nice small lithium ion battery that doesn't really work well with normal battery tie downs (without tip-tie assistance), would it be legal to cut / grind off the little welded in raised area that holds the stock battery tray and then fab in a rather minimal custom bracket specific to my little battery to hold it more securely?
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:42 PM   #1798
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If it doesn't say you can, you can't. If you have to ask yourself if it's a tortured interpretation, it is so don't do it.

You'll not lose enough weight with the 1 lbs rule to make a big enough difference, and your chassis can already get light enough without torturing things. Light weight battery is low hanging fruit, there's plenty of other things though.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:28 PM   #1799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
If it doesn't say you can, you can't. If you have to ask yourself if it's a tortured interpretation, it is so don't do it.
That's what I was afraid of.

However, it was actually an old post of yours that really got these temptations rolling in my head:

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Ounces make pounds and pounds make pain. There's tons of little things I've done to my car to save weight that makes it lighter, easier to work on, and more simple in general. when I looked at Ross's car that I'm driving at Nats now I pulled a good 6 lbs off the nose in 10 minutes just looking at stuff. I'll have 100 lbs out of it before the big show with some elbow grease mixed in.

You have to look at stuff in a "do I need this bracket" or "does this need to remain here or can I remove it, and can I cut some out while I'm here".
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:11 PM   #1800
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The stuff I'm talking about there is on parts that are open for modification. Take a look at your engine and see how many brackets or bolting points there are on it. Those are open to remove. But various brackets on the body that aren't listed as being part of a greater modification can't be removed. I still have a bunch of little things in the car because it's not legal to remove.
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