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Old 06-11-2017, 11:41 PM   #751
Fierysun
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Originally Posted by TeddyK View Post
Stock STi is 200AWHP

.
More like 240whp+. Which is considerably more than 200.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:45 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
More like 240whp+. Which is considerably more than 200.
Depends on the dyno. One of my local dynos reads 250-260whp for a bone stock '06 STI, which is a Dynojet. Another reads 200-210whp, Mustang Dyno. There's also one we have around that reads 170-180whp, which happens to be the heart breaker Dyno Dynamics. And the Dynapacks around here read about 220-230whp. You can't just through around numbers saying a car makes XAAwhp stock and saying someone else's XBBwhp is wrong.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:44 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by Nick411 View Post
Depends on the dyno. One of my local dynos reads 250-260whp for a bone stock '06 STI, which is a Dynojet. Another reads 200-210whp, Mustang Dyno. There's also one we have around that reads 170-180whp, which happens to be the heart breaker Dyno Dynamics. And the Dynapacks around here read about 220-230whp. You can't just through around numbers saying a car makes XAAwhp stock and saying someone else's XBBwhp is wrong.
Actually I can and here's why. The factory rated OEM power for an STI is 300bhp. This is a government agency confirmed output of the motor. So if you have some crazy low reading dyno saying the whp is 200. That's way off the actual parasitic drivetrain loss which is somewhere around 20%. Which means the numbers are off so it's bogus.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:53 PM   #754
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
They can sound awesome with the correct tuning, it's not magic, just trial and error.
I respectfully disagree. The engineering and development costs I estimate to rival what we put into our header, upwards of $100K. We spend the better parts of a few weeks going the 'throw a dart at the wall route' and it was fruitless. I think in total it was like 27 combinations of things we tried, plus a couple off-the-shelf products (Q300 & Cobb off the top of my head). In the end we went with a steel cat-back as it resolves 90% of cabin sound/drone when compared to stainless. It's cheap and starting to rust, but I can hear myself think and it had no problem making 597whp

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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Chris, just sent another message regarding the spoolinator kit. Forgot to ask, can you provide the reverse outlet / passenger facing gtx3576r Gen2 in the kit? Also, would it clear the engine case in that orientation?
That would put you in rotated kit category essentially. We've not gone in that direction, and having already spent development money on the kit we have, I don't see any benefit (from a performance standpoint), but more cost. Reverse rotation in that location would cause other conflicts as well with brake lines IIRC?
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:55 PM   #755
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You guys fighting over dyno numbers is funny. Factory = 300 crank = 240whp = anyone's guess on anyone's dyno.

A dyno is a tool, not a yardstick.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:09 PM   #756
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I respectfully disagree. The engineering and development costs I estimate to rival what we put into our header, upwards of $100K. We spend the better parts of a few weeks going the 'throw a dart at the wall route' and it was fruitless. I think in total it was like 27 combinations of things we tried, plus a couple off-the-shelf products (Q300 & Cobb off the top of my head). In the end we went with a steel cat-back as it resolves 90% of cabin sound/drone when compared to stainless. It's cheap and starting to rust, but I can hear myself think and it had no problem making 597whp
I understand what you're saying but still don't agree it's pointless. Mine already sounded great with the 3" (ID) SRS midpipe and muffler, it would have sounded better with a longer resonator or even two. This exhaust was designed around a uel system which made it easy to defeat high tones leaving the exhaust. Even the 3" (OD) Invidia sounds good but is still a little loud. Both of these exhausts have relatively short resonators with very little volume to cancel high frequency noise. I understand how sound works, maybe not much about tuning of the engine, but there are common rules that govern sound waves.

Like already mentioned, these aftermarket Subaru exhaust systems are relatively easy for any company to pump out. Even the smaller can ones sound throaty, and this is because of the uel header. Throw that same system on an el header subie (doesn't matter which el header) and that same exhaust won't sound rumbly or deep and most likely will resonate to the higher frequencies the tiny center resonator can't defeat. It's not a complex problem, you can even see the aftermarket exhaust systems for our cars all have a smaller sized muffler, even on the Q300...and it's supposed to be "quiet"er than most aftermarkets. Sure that muffler is a tiny bit larger than the other aftermarkets, but still a good bit smaller than the oem mufflers. The oem resonator is even better designed to drop out high frequencies. Obviously having 3" diameter pipe plays a role as well in allowing more highs through, but using a puny resonator and smaller cans is the main reason they sound "raspy" on el header cars.

You can even compare the oem midpipe resonators of a 2006 normal impreza/2.5i to a 2006 wrx sti. There is an obvious size difference. Obviously they spent good money on research, but that doesn't mean a good sound couldn't be found without it. There are many resonators and universal mufflers one can buy and experiment with.

-The normal impreza/2.5i has an equal header:

--Larger midpipe resonator than the sti of same year, stops more high freq, I believe the muffler is even longer than sti


-The 06 sti has an uel header:

--Smaller midpipe resonator than the normal impreza, doesn't need as much high freq drop


The concept is relatively simple to me, and while you can say costs for development would be ridiculous, I've seen several people design and sell headers that were basically designed with primaries similar or a good bit larger than oem, then bolted on to see how they affected performance. There are a lot of important things that go into how those headers work, and yours are the most well thought out in my opinion, but you can't deny companies build them and sell on the marketing scheme alone. Get some bros excited over a new product with some dyno claims and they are ready to jump in and try, in the hopes of getting some unclaimed power.




Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post

That would put you in rotated kit category essentially. We've not gone in that direction, and having already spent development money on the kit we have, I don't see any benefit (from a performance standpoint), but more cost. Reverse rotation in that location would cause other conflicts as well with brake lines IIRC?
I understand that would make it more difficult for people who want to use the tmic design as well, just thought ordering a reverse outlet wouldn't be an issue since the GEN2 gtx turbo has to be special ordered anyway.

Another problem I realized today with having a right facing outlet, is that the turbo blade rotation would also have to be reversed. To do that, the turbine housing would also have to slope toward the passenger side instead of the driver side like your housing. That wouldn't work because it would move the centerline of the turbo to the right too far, and it would probably be facing directly into the manifold runner if not further over.
I gave up on that idea, wasn't thinking about the actual turbo shaft rotation being reversed as well.

On the subject of your spoolinator adapter, what type of gasket is that? I just noticed today you include a round fiber looking gasket in the kit. I was under the impression the vband adapter sealed by having an opposite shape vband surface on the bottom that mated to the turbine housing. How long to you project that gasket will last? What type of material is it, if you don't mind the question?


Thanks Chris
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:49 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
You guys fighting over dyno numbers is funny. Factory = 300 crank = 240whp = anyone's guess on anyone's dyno.

A dyno is a tool, not a yardstick.
So you know the exact parasitic power loss of this particular drivetrain? Or are you using the "general rule of thumb" that is 20% for AWD systems with stock weight wheels, stock drivetrain bushings, stock weight flywheel, stock weight driveshaft, and stock fluids?
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:27 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I understand how sound works, maybe not much about tuning of the engine, but there are common rules that govern sound waves.

Like already mentioned, these aftermarket Subaru exhaust systems are relatively easy for any company to pump out.

It's not a complex problem,.

There are many resonators and universal mufflers one can buy and experiment with.

The concept is relatively simple to me,
I hate to sound cliché, but if it's so easy, why doesn't one exist? We gave it a shot, and I'd like to think we've got some decent knowledge with these engines, turbos, and the science behind the exhaust system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
and while you can say costs for development would be ridiculous, I've seen several people design and sell headers that were basically designed with primaries similar or a good bit larger than oem, then bolted on to see how they affected performance.
It's hard not to beat the very inefficient OEM manifold. I saw one made from galvanized tube with bubble gum welds perform better than OEM. My point being, if you're shooting for better than OEM, it's not hard to do.

We on the other hand we shooting for the fence, and I think we can confidently say our header is the highest power producing header you can get for a Subaru; based on shop independent and customers doing their own testing and comparisons. Our customers are not the budget minded, but those looking for no compromise quality and performance.

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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
There are a lot of important things that go into how those headers work, and yours are the most well thought out in my opinion, but you can't deny companies build them and sell on the marketing scheme alone.
Absolutely. If you make a pile of poo sound good, people would buy it... because it's good poo, it's what the internet said

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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
since the GEN2 gtx turbo has to be special ordered anyway.
Special order? We order them just like the older Gen I

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post

On the subject of your spoolinator adapter, what type of gasket is that?

How long to you project that gasket will last?

What type of material is it, if you don't mind the question?
This gasket was used on the first 5 or so kits IIRC. It was CGM and lasted... well I've never seen one needing to be replaced and they are reusable. Fortunately, we made some subtle tweaks so no gasket is necessary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick411 View Post
So you know the exact parasitic power loss of this particular drivetrain? Or are you using the "general rule of thumb" that is 20% for AWD systems with stock weight wheels, stock drivetrain bushings, stock weight flywheel, stock weight driveshaft, and stock fluids?
General.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:56 PM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I hate to sound cliché, but if it's so easy, why doesn't one exist? We gave it a shot, and I'd like to think we've got some decent knowledge with these engines, turbos, and the science behind the exhaust system.
Because companies know it's a small niche for now and if they can continue to sell the generic setups that sound good no matter what, they aren't going to do any further development. They know most people will just deal with the annoying sound and attribute it to characteristics of whatever part or setup. While your header design is top of the chain, I'm not sure you've put the same effort into exhaust design that you did into that work of art of a header.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
It's hard not to beat the very inefficient OEM manifold. I saw one made from galvanized tube with bubble gum welds perform better than OEM. My point being, if you're shooting for better than OEM, it's not hard to do.
Exactly, and that is why the exhausts are so easy to make for the majority of subarus...with uel. Doesn't take magic for those to sound great.




Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
We on the other hand we shooting for the fence, and I think we can confidently say our header is the highest power producing header you can get for a Subaru; based on shop independent and customers doing their own testing and comparisons. Our customers are not the budget minded, but those looking for no compromise quality and performance.
It is the best, period...no dispute here. I'm proud and confident running it and wouldn't run any other.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Absolutely. If you make a pile of poo sound good, people would buy it... because it's good poo, it's what the internet said
Exactly, and by the time all of the poo sounds leave one of those generic poorly designed aftermarket headers and get filtered through all of the poo traps, you forget about how crappy the header is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Special order? We order them just like the older Gen I
I meant special as in the GEN2 not being in the drop down menu / price choices on the site, not special as in a huge deal for you to get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
This gasket was used on the first 5 or so kits IIRC. It was CGM and lasted... well I've never seen one needing to be replaced and they are reusable. Fortunately, we made some subtle tweaks so no gasket is necessary.
Excellent, sign me up Chris.

Here is what my build consists of, and I need good information on how to achieve 500whp and almost as much in torque. The turbo is now the only option for me to decide on with your complete package. I am considering the GEN2 3576r, but what could I do with that "special" 3067r (GEN2?) The car will be driven several days a week to work and sometimes on trips. It is not a drag car, has more than oem options and will even have my adcom and image dynamics equipment back in eventually.

Around where are the limits of the 3067, with 93 pump fuel and e85? This will be tuned on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, not a dynojet.

I plan to upgrade the turbo, clutch, and axles eventually for some seriousness but still would like to make some hot power in this phase.

My longblock was done by Ken Carlson at Larry's:

-AEBS sleeved and stainless o-ringed
-ARP 14mm head studs
-ARP case bolts
-Manley 8.5:1 pistons
-Manley I beam turbo tough rods
-Manley upgraded wrist pins
-OEM Nitrided crank
-Pinned mains
-Oiling mods to block
-11mm oem oil pump

-ej205 heads cnc'ed for 2.5 bore
-All ports cnc ported with Ken's program
-+1mm GSC valves and beehive springs
-GSC "stage 2" cams (no avcs)

ECU and peripherals:

-Haltech elite 2500
-Haltech alcohol sensor for E fuels
-Deatschwerks DW300 pump in main fuel tank
-Nuke 3l surge tank with DW400 pump
-2000cc Injector Development injectors
-IAG top feed rails with generic pulse dampers
-Karboy lw crank pulley
-ACT street HD clutch (515ftlbs) and streetlite flywheel

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-30-2019 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Purchased a few more items
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:04 PM   #760
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Gen 1 with the 3067 I was about 350 on 93 and 430 on e85 or so and on the gen 1 3576 I was 460 or so on 93 and 540 on e85. From what I've heard gen 2 has improved spool but not max hp so much.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:22 PM   #761
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Originally Posted by MazNJ View Post
Gen 1 with the 3067 I was about 350 on 93 and 430 on e85 or so and on the gen 1 3576 I was 460 or so on 93 and 540 on e85. From what I've heard gen 2 has improved spool but not max hp so much.
What injectors, intercooler, exhaust, etc were you using? Any cam work? Also, what type of dyno (mustang, dynojet) tune and where, if you don't mind?
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:25 PM   #762
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Default Killer B OEM-ish TURBO Kit GTX3067-R with Tial Turbine Housing 'The Spoolinator'

Milltek catback.
Id1000s for the 3067, Id1700s for the 3576.
Spearco TMIC for both.
Stock cams on the 3067, 272/268 on the 3576.
Aem320 fp on both. Upgrading to a radium surge tank with dual 320s shortly.
For both, used a supertrapp ewg muffler. Removing it to see if it helps spool or power.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:45 PM   #763
2slofouru
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Originally Posted by MazNJ View Post
Milltek catback.
Id1000s for the 3067, Id1700s for the 3576.
Spearco TMIC for both.
Stock cams on the 3067, 272/268 on the 3576.
Aem320 fp on both. Upgrading to a radium surge tank with dual 320s shortly.
For both, used a supertrapp ewg muffler. Removing it to see if it helps spool or power.

Someone mentioned a Milltek catback when I was trying to find something available to kill the el high tones before getting the Invidia. I noticed one of their wrx exhausts uses two resonators as opposed to most aftermarkets one or none, good way to kill higher tones and make it more mellow.

Why are you upgrading fuel, is the AEM 320 over the limit? I've read a few times of the DW300 making serious power. That is what I have now, but am not sure it will handle the power level I'm looking for. I see people making 500hp on single pumps and it makes me wonder why so many go with surge tanks and dual setups. Is it for keeping air out of the fuel with high G maneuvers?

I was considering a supertrapp, but yeah it seems pretty restrictive for something that you want zero restriction to perform correctly. The new plan is to use a cheap straight through fiber packed minibike muffler. That should be enough baffling to make it bearable, if not you can add another inline. So long as the ID remains the same, you should be able to extend the tubing a ways for more baffling. We shall see...
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:00 AM   #764
KillerBMotorsport
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I meant special as in the GEN2 not being in the drop down menu / price choices on the site, not special as in a huge deal for you to get.
Gotcha. We're stuck in summer/show season and need to get the website updated. It's on our list. Anything Garrett carries, we can get though

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Here is what my build consists of, and I need good information on how to achieve 500whp and almost as much in torque. The turbo is now the only option for me to decide on with your complete package. I am considering the GEN2 3576r, but what could I do with that "special" 3067r (GEN2?) The car will be driven several days a week to work and sometimes on trips. It is not a drag car, has more than oem options and will even have my adcom and image dynamics equipment back in eventually.

Around where are the limits of the 3067, with 93 pump fuel and e85? This will be tuned on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, not a dynojet.
Maz and I had similar results with the 3067, and everything he mentions about it, is spot on. If your big power goals are 500whp, this is not the turbo for you. If you want instant response or something that has the drivability of stock with a bunch more power, it's a great option. Discussing it might be a moot point because Garrett decided to drop it from the line. The GTX3067 is no more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post

-AEBS sleeved and o-ringed
-ARP 14mm head studs
-ARP case bolts
-Manley 8.5:1 pistons
-Manley I beam turbo tough rods
-Manly upgraded wrist pins
-OEM Nitrided crank
-Pinned mains
-Oiling mods to block
-11mm oil pump

-ej205 heads cnc'ed for 2.5 bore
-All ports cnc ported with Ken's program
-+1mm GSC valves and beehive springs
-GSC "stage 2" cams (no avcs)

ECU and peripherals:

-Haltech elite 1500
-Haltech alcohol sensor for E fuels
-walbro 450lph pump
-1500-?cc injectors, likely ID
-Radium top feed rails
-? brand crank pulley
-ACT street HD clutch (515ftlbs) and streetlite flywheel
I've never used aftermarket axles in any of our cars, but I don't 'launch' them either... OK maybe once in a while, but it's VERY rare. If you're going to launch the car and/or seriously drag race it's something to consider. The OEM axles will take quite a bit of abuse and a spare set of OEMs is a lot cheaper than aftermarket as well. Something to consider. If you're breaking axles, a handful of other driveline components is not going to be far behind.

If the car is a GD, ditch the 11mm pump. Extra parasitic loss, added heat to the oil, improved probability of aeration (even more so if you delete AVCS altogether), no improved flow through the engine vs a 10mm pump.

At these power levels, I'd ditch the head work and cams. Maz and I made similar power with the 3576 on pump, but I made a lot more on E85 (same tuner, same dyno, and mostly similar mods), with the biggest differences being the block (we use sleeves in EVERYTHING) and the headwork. Unless you're shooting for a good bit over 600whp it's unnecessary. Given the reliability issues that come with using cams, in my book it's a big no-no for anyone wanting to commute, travel, or use their car like a 'normal' person. My recommendation for the heads is to find someone that knows the right way to bowl blend, get some Ferrea OEM size valves, their lightest springs (still heavier than OEM) and run the OEM cams. AVCS is a valuable feature, especially when it comes to widening the power curve (for someone that knows how to tune it properly).

Fueling will really come down to which turbo you settle on and what fuel you want to hit your power goal with, so I won't touch that one... yet.

Back to the turbo, Gen I vs Gen II. While the Gen II promises great things, from what I'm seeing the turbos are spooling the same, but on these engines you can expect ~10% of an improvement. So with Roy and I being 460 and 450 respectively, on pump 93 with a Gen II 3576 I would expect that number to be closer to 500. Of course depending on supporting mods. If that 500whp power goal is for E85 only, then I would consider the GTX3071-R Gen II. It will come close to your 500whp goal on E85 and will be almost as responsive as OEM. It's a great turbo for bigger power without lag getting to a level that I start to consider bothersome. A lot of people will recommend the 3076, and it will make more power and get you over 500, but it comes with a decent bit more lag over the 3071... which is why I tend to push the 3576 for anyone considering the 3076 because the lag is very similar, but the 3576 will have much lower EGTs, more power on less boost, and MUCH higher power potential in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MazNJ View Post
Gen 1 with the 3067 I was about 350 on 93 and 430 on e85 or so and on the gen 1 3576 I was 460 or so on 93 and 540 on e85. From what I've heard gen 2 has improved spool but not max hp so much.
My numbers for the 3067 were higher, but if my not completely senile old man memory serves me right, you were on snow tires at the time?
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:46 AM   #765
2slofouru
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Gotcha. We're stuck in summer/show season and need to get the website updated. It's on our list. Anything Garrett carries, we can get though



Maz and I had similar results with the 3067, and everything he mentions about it, is spot on. If your big power goals are 500whp, this is not the turbo for you. If you want instant response or something that has the drivability of stock with a bunch more power, it's a great option. Discussing it might be a moot point because Garrett decided to drop it from the line. The GTX3067 is no more.



I've never used aftermarket axles in any of our cars, but I don't 'launch' them either... OK maybe once in a while, but it's VERY rare. If you're going to launch the car and/or seriously drag race it's something to consider. The OEM axles will take quite a bit of abuse and a spare set of OEMs is a lot cheaper than aftermarket as well. Something to consider. If you're breaking axles, a handful of other driveline components is not going to be far behind.

If the car is a GD, ditch the 11mm pump. Extra parasitic loss, added heat to the oil, improved probability of aeration (even more so if you delete AVCS altogether), no improved flow through the engine vs a 10mm pump.

At these power levels, I'd ditch the head work and cams. Maz and I made similar power with the 3576 on pump, but I made a lot more on E85 (same tuner, same dyno, and mostly similar mods), with the biggest differences being the block (we use sleeves in EVERYTHING) and the headwork. Unless you're shooting for a good bit over 600whp it's unnecessary. Given the reliability issues that come with using cams, in my book it's a big no-no for anyone wanting to commute, travel, or use their car like a 'normal' person. My recommendation for the heads is to find someone that knows the right way to bowl blend, get some Ferrea OEM size valves, their lightest springs (still heavier than OEM) and run the OEM cams. AVCS is a valuable feature, especially when it comes to widening the power curve (for someone that knows how to tune it properly).

Fueling will really come down to which turbo you settle on and what fuel you want to hit your power goal with, so I won't touch that one... yet.

Back to the turbo, Gen I vs Gen II. While the Gen II promises great things, from what I'm seeing the turbos are spooling the same, but on these engines you can expect ~10% of an improvement. So with Roy and I being 460 and 450 respectively, on pump 93 with a Gen II 3576 I would expect that number to be closer to 500. Of course depending on supporting mods. If that 500whp power goal is for E85 only, then I would consider the GTX3071-R Gen II. It will come close to your 500whp goal on E85 and will be almost as responsive as OEM. It's a great turbo for bigger power without lag getting to a level that I start to consider bothersome. A lot of people will recommend the 3076, and it will make more power and get you over 500, but it comes with a decent bit more lag over the 3071... which is why I tend to push the 3576 for anyone considering the 3076 because the lag is very similar, but the 3576 will have much lower EGTs, more power on less boost, and MUCH higher power potential in general.



My numbers for the 3067 were higher, but if my not completely senile old man memory serves me right, you were on snow tires at the time?

The mods aren't getting "ditched" , the engine is already done, as I stated. The 11mm pump was chosen by the shop because of the oiling mods and clearances. The car is a 95 as I stated when you were asking what year it was in the messages. I run a carbon driveshaft for now but if the time comes for even more power I will worry about the axles. They are oem for now.

I made these statements in my above post, the one you quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post

Here is what my build consists of, and I need good information on how to achieve 500whp and almost as much in torque. The turbo is now the only option for me to decide on with your complete package..

(and)

My longblock was done by Ken Carlson at Larry's:
The engine is done, the parts I've listed are going to be installed. Again, the main goal at this point is to decide on which model turbo to use.

So at this point the 3576 seems to be the only logical choice. The 3067 is still on your website, is that a glitch?

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-15-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:11 AM   #766
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Correct, snow tires.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:47 AM   #767
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The GTX3067 is no more.


Is it possible to swap turbines? I have a gtx2867 gen2, can I swap a gt30 wheel onto it? To create a gtx3067 gen2?
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:03 AM   #768
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Is it possible to swap turbines? I have a gtx2867 gen2, can I swap a gt30 wheel onto it? To create a gtx3067 gen2?
You would need to speak with someone who does turbo modification, rebuilds etc. ATP Turbo is who I would recommend for that questions. I don't see why it couldn't be done, you'd be putting a 30R turbine wheel and turbine housing onto your GTX28 compressor and CHRA.

The biggest issue here is what's it going to be worth? The 2867 Gen II will make as much power as the older 3067 Gen I. So I assume it might be good for ~10% more whp?
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:14 AM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illicit1 View Post
Is it possible to swap turbines? I have a gtx2867 gen2, can I swap a gt30 wheel onto it? To create a gtx3067 gen2?
the "gen2" part is the wheel. so the answer is no. gen 2's use a new 8+8 blade wheel instead of the gen 1's 11 Blade wheel. dont forget that the GT is older than the GTX. there is no gen 2 GT.
it goes GT > Gen 1 GTX > Gen 2 GTX.

if you got a gen 2 gtx30 wheel then yes. will require machining of the backplate and compressor housing, or a new compressor housing all together.

Last edited by Titter; 06-15-2017 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:47 AM   #770
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^ I think he meant 30R not GT30.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:26 PM   #771
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I think the GT28 and GT30 compressor wheels may be interchangeable as far as fitting on the shaft and having the correct dimensions. Between GT30 and GT35, the thru bore geometry is slightly different. So the 76mm wheel on the GTX3076 is not interchangeable with the 76mm wheel on the GTX3576.

So I think in theory, you can take the compressor housing, backplate, and 67mm compressor wheel from the GTX2867 and put all that on the GT30 turbine wheel. But then the issue is balancing as all the GTX28-35 stuff is high speed VSR balanced.

Or just ask the distributors for a gen 2 GTX3067 and if there is enough demand, Garrett will make it. Garrett stopped making the 3067 because of lack of demand. Which is silly because really any application using the 2867 should be on the 3067, nearly identical same spool, 25whp more power. The only reason I see to use the 2867 is if keeping the T2 flanged internally wastegated turbine housing. If going to a v-band turbine housing, should automatically step up to the 3067. Heck, you can't get a twin-scroll turbine housing for the 2867, so the 3067 in a twin-scroll housing should spool faster and make more power too. Anyway.....
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:18 AM   #772
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Yes but the gtx3071 is the way to go. It's the same principle as the gtx3576 but a step smaller. You know, more flow with the gt30 spool and hotside that doesn't choke anything. It's my alltime favourite "street" turbo. I'd love to see how the killer b headers do with it. As much as killer b have done well with this setup, IMO the 28 is the hotside you should be using with the gtx67 compressor wheel.

With gtx wheels, the way to go now is really just a smaller compressor wheel than the hotside originally came with in the gt series. so you have gtx3576 instead of gt3582, gtx3071 instead of gt3076, gtx2867 instead of gt2871, etc etc.

I contacted gcg turbo here in aus about mating a gtx 82mm compressor wheel with the gt40 hotside too and they said that it can be easily done with some machining and a few hundred dollars. I'm yet to see anyone do it but I imagine it would be beastly.


chris - I'm not sure if I asked you this already, but are there any plans to get your headers made with any cheaper material (stainless or whatever)?

If i was building an all-out track weapon these would be the way to go but for a general street guy that hits the track on occasion the inconel makes them wife-prohibited.

Last edited by vicious_fishes; 06-16-2017 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:39 AM   #773
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chris - I'm not sure if I asked you this already, but are there any plans to get your headers made with any cheaper material (stainless or whatever)?

If i was building an all-out track weapon these would be the way to go but for a general street guy that hits the track on occasion the inconel makes them wife-prohibited.

Wut? Lol. His headers are 321 stainless. Not inconel.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:42 AM   #774
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Oh. I had this idea that they're inconel. No idea where i got that from then.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:26 AM   #775
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Oh. I had this idea that they're inconel. No idea where i got that from then.
We've quoted Inconel, but to date, have yet to have someone pull the trigger. It's been a few years, but IIRC we were looking at ~$8,500 for an Inconel low mount manifold.
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