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Old 09-12-2017, 06:02 PM   #51
RealDealTarheel
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Where did I say for everyone? No where that's where
I also don't see loaded guns pointed at people to do what I'm doing or do it like you are doing. Most people drive less than 60 miles per day. Many of them in congested urban centers. My added 20 mi utes for my trip is not a daily occurrence. Maybe once every 3 mo this on a weekend day, oh my the life changing consequences of that
New one out Q1 of 2018 goes to 150.
I'm starting to think they'll need 1000 mile range EV's for people to quit their crying.

We have a competing type of car becoming more common place on the market over the next ten years. Oh the horror. Hell you should be happy, it will drive demand for gasoline down alleviating some cost. Major continents going this way, China, Europe, hell it should alleviate gasoline supply issues for many many decades.

More fear mongering. Is anyone asking you to radically change your lifestyle because a new Leaf or Tesla gets put on the road? No. Worried about getting your yearly Alaskan oil check taken away from you? I don't understand the frustration from you nor anyone else. The market in a capitalistic society will dictate consumer choice. And gas ain't going anywhere until after we are all dead and buried.
Ah, so the point of your novels wasn't an attempt to show that by your example E.V.'s are just fine and dandy? It was a 20 minute delay once every three months for YOU, which my point was clearly that your situation is not applicable to everyone else which is the implication of that particular novel. But don't expand the scope of your thought outward now, focus on Pre.

The title of this thread isn't China to join England and France by giving people a choice between gasoline/diesel and E.V., it's banning gasoline/diesel. When the State passes a law it's enforced at gun point, it's the logical conclusion to that thought exercise. So not right this minute, not in America yet, but if we pass a similar law pretty much a gun would be held to your head. Unless we retire all fire arms from police service by the time the law comes into effect.

Where did I say I had a problem with a competing vehicle type? Are you sure I didn't say that I wished they afforded the same conveniences that I currently enjoy before I switched over? I mean they sound similar, the differences are subtle, but they are there.

Note to self, a 200 mile range with a minimum charge time of an hour not being feasible for the majority of the population is fear mongering.

Oh, I get a yearly oil check? I've lived in Alaska that long? How much did I get last year for my time in the 3rd world of America?

Now I've written a novel, you got me this time, just the once.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:11 PM   #52
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The title of this thread isn't China to join England and France by giving people a choice between gasoline/diesel and E.V., it's banning gasoline/diesel.
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Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything... The ban is for the sale of new vehicles, not the shuttering of gas stations...
At least per the suggestion of the article, if you decide to move to China in the next 23 years and decide to purchase a gasoline powered car, you can keep it. Guess what... you'll likely be able to fill it up at a gas station too!

the world is not ending. No one is stealing your gasoline powered car.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:16 PM   #53
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At least per the suggestion of the article, if you decide to move to China in the next 23 years and decide to purchase a gasoline powered car, you can keep it. Guess what... you'll likely be able to fill it up at a gas station too!

the world is not ending. No one is stealing your gasoline powered car.
So I expressed my desire to move to one of the countries and buy a new gasoline powered car 24 years from now? Also I stated my gas powered car was going to be stolen? I mean that could happen at any point if you think about it. Could be getting stolen as we converse.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:33 PM   #54
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So I expressed my desire to move to one of the countries and buy a new gasoline powered car 24 years from now? Also I stated my gas powered car was going to be stolen? I mean that could happen at any point if you think about it. Could be getting stolen as we converse.
no, you did neither. But you did use "gun to the head" analogies. You're intensifying the fear mongering that's going on in this thread surrounding advancing EVs.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:04 PM   #55
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no, you did neither. But you did use "gun to the head" analogies. You're intensifying the fear mongering that's going on in this thread surrounding advancing EVs.
With anger and hostility to boot, and no law has passed here for 2040 and it's not even being discussed.
And with the current administration safe as kittens. But let's get agitated about things anyway.

For this forum, nothing new. Some people get real real heated about EV's. They start throwing every toy out of their crib. Every single electric vehicle thread, the chit starts. Reasoning never plays a part, find an extreme, and push that example. Geez, even if the US passed some law for 2050, you've got over a quarter century to "prep". But they won't pass that here. Here the market will swing, and capitalism will dictate what stays and what don't.

Oh yeah almost forgot...and climate change is a big fat myth that the liberals created to tax us. Harvey, Irma, the severity of those storms have nothing to do with rising ocean temperatures. We should all just sing la la la, everything will be ok. We don't care until it impacts us then it's a thing. Until then fuk it!
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:11 AM   #56
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Someone tell these idiots ..electric cars get charged by electricity which is made by burning coal..which is much more pollution than burning gas..
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:08 AM   #57
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I also don't see loaded guns pointed at people to do what I'm doing or do it like you are doing.
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
no, you did neither. But you did use "gun to the head" analogies. You're intensifying the fear mongering that's going on in this thread surrounding advancing EVs.
Indeed, I was the one who brought up guns.

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PrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePr ePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePreP rePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePre PrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePre

PrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePr ePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePreP rePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePre PrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePrePr ePrePrePre
Sorry Pre, no more Trolly Snacks for you, not even if you went into that abandoned thread about the 2018 STI and posted there.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:15 AM   #58
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If everyone is charging their vehicles over-night, where's that power going to come from? Solar doesn't work well at night. Wind usually settles at night, so that's out. More magical thinking about unlimited "clean" power.

Where's all the EV batteries going to come from? Is the plan to rely on non-existent infrastructure and technology? More magical thinking.

EV is currently a niche, slowly gaining acceptance, slowly improving. I have no doubt that electricity will be the future, but battery innovation needs significant improvement, and that's just not realistic in the next 30 years.

Mandating EV will be no more successful, in our lifetime, than mandating Kyoto. How'd that work out?
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:35 AM   #59
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If everyone is charging their vehicles over-night, where's that power going to come from? Solar doesn't work well at night. Wind usually settles at night, so that's out. More magical thinking about unlimited "clean" power.
I am not sure why so many think that home charging is a huge increase on infrastructure.

Most home level 1 systems use far less than say a refrigerator or even a large TV. Level 2 less than dryers, A/C and Heat pumps.

Is it an increase, yes, but not exponential as some seem to think.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:44 AM   #60
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Someone tell these idiots ..electric cars get charged by electricity which is made by burning coal..which is much more pollution than burning gas..
if you burn a forest and no one sees it.....

China is also adding lots of solar power stations to the grid
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-half-official

I think they are finally starting to stop not caring about everything. It will just take a lot of time to move 20% of the world population at once.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:56 AM   #61
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With anger and hostility to boot, and no law has passed here for 2040 and it's not even being discussed.
And with the current administration safe as kittens. But let's get agitated about things anyway.

For this forum, nothing new. Some people get real real heated about EV's. They start throwing every toy out of their crib. Every single electric vehicle thread, the chit starts. Reasoning never plays a part, find an extreme, and push that example. Geez, even if the US passed some law for 2050, you've got over a quarter century to "prep". But they won't pass that here. Here the market will swing, and capitalism will dictate what stays and what don't.

Oh yeah almost forgot...and climate change is a big fat myth that the liberals created to tax us. Harvey, Irma, the severity of those storms have nothing to do with rising ocean temperatures. We should all just sing la la la, everything will be ok. We don't care until it impacts us then it's a thing. Until then fuk it!
EVs are good, its the batteries that are still not up to snuff, cost wise, charging time wise and distance travel wise. Sure if you can pay for large heavy battery packs can go farther but way over top cost. The current grid will not support load it already has trouble supplying enough power peak demands. Has everyone forgotten ENRON or too young here? Are you OK with single source for your energy? Does it bother that make just as much pollution as gasoline engines on a "well to well basis ?" Won't get much more than 25-30% using both solar and wind in good locations. do you mind paying .40 Kwhr for electric instead of US average .12c.
Do you want clean air or fun tech electric cars? Big problem people do not buy them even with big Govt subsidies so now they try to force them on you. If ther were so good and cost effective why doesn't the military or post office use them ? Postal is perfect application.
If you want clean air then put catalysts and upgrade heating systems that have none now. This is cause of big brown outs in Beijing and London etc. Notice they are always in winter? Stop wild fores faster and add to fire budgets for prevention cause 1 wild fire makes more pollution that all the cars in USA and EU for 1 year.

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Old 09-13-2017, 10:04 AM   #62
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Hey become a prepper. Buy some land out in the country, build a house, bury a container. Buy a case of AK's and AR's and prep for Red Dawn. Spray paint Wolverines on the side of your barn. Buy livestock, plant a full garden. Take it to the limit. Even Richard Branson, with pockets for 100 years got screwed in Irma on his own island. Some things you just can't plan for. Catostrophe hits here I'm leaving early on aircraft. That don't work, I'll get on the top of my house with a can of spray paint, my sniper rifle, and scream at the sky.
Who are you and why are you spying on me..







watching you



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Old 09-13-2017, 10:06 AM   #63
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Someone tell these idiots ..electric cars get charged by electricity which is made by burning coal..which is much more pollution than burning gas..
Some of us have solar arrays bud. It's all about a balance.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:08 AM   #64
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Indeed, I was the one who brought up guns.



Sorry Pre, no more Trolly Snacks for you, not even if you went into that abandoned thread about the 2018 STI and posted there.
Ah snowflake, you'll be OK. You are usually very level headed around here. This subject oh my, I picture taking pics of your meals and yourself with a selfie stick, and uploading it all to instagoogletwatfacegram. As that lady said in the Matrix, have a cookie, you'll be as right as rain sweetheart.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:09 AM   #65
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With anger and hostility to boot, and no law has passed here for 2040 and it's not even being discussed.
And with the current administration safe as kittens. But let's get agitated about things anyway.

For this forum, nothing new. Some people get real real heated about EV's. They start throwing every toy out of their crib. Every single electric vehicle thread, the chit starts. Reasoning never plays a part, find an extreme, and push that example. Geez, even if the US passed some law for 2050, you've got over a quarter century to "prep". But they won't pass that here. Here the market will swing, and capitalism will dictate what stays and what don't.

Oh yeah almost forgot...and climate change is a big fat myth that the liberals created to tax us. Harvey, Irma, the severity of those storms have nothing to do with rising ocean temperatures. We should all just sing la la la, everything will be ok. We don't care until it impacts us then it's a thing. Until then fuk it!
EVs are good, its the batteries that are still not up to snuff, cost wise, charging time wise and distance travel wise. Sure if you can pay for large heavy battery packs can go farther but way over top cost wise. The current grid will not support load it already has. Are you OK with single source for your energy? Current power grids have trouble meeting peaks now. Has everyone forgotten ENRON ?Does it bother that make just as much pollution as gasoline engines on a "well to well basis ?" Won't get much more than 25-30% using both solar and wind in good locations. do you mind paying .40 Kwhr for electric instead of US average .12c
Why doesn't the govt use EVs for delivering mail or military vehicles if so good ? Have you seen whats happens when they get wet (Fisker cars all exploded and burnt during Sandy) or power lines down ?
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:10 AM   #66
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The push for all new vehicles being EV by 2040 makes a lot of sense in small countries like the ones in Europe.
I'm less sure about China, but from the little I've seen a majority of their population is congregated in a few large areas that could use any reduction in pollution that they can get.
America is a different place altogether. Our population is spread fairly well across the entire country (less so in the middle) and we love to travel by car, but that's also one of the reasons the US hasn't and won't make this same push.

We will beef up our infrastructure more and more though the closer we get to 2040, and when the time comes that half of all new cars are EV and these nations start the process of gradually phasing out gas/diesel sales the US will begin a trickle effect of doing the same.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:13 AM   #67
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Ah snowflake, you'll be OK. You are usually very level headed around here. This subject oh my, I picture taking pics of your meals and yourself with a selfie stick, and uploading it all to instagoogletwatfacegram. As that lady said in the Matrix, have a cookie, you'll be as right as rain sweetheart.
I'll be okay, you'll still be an idiot though. Good luck Stephanie.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:01 AM   #68
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EVs are good, its the batteries that are still not up to snuff, cost wise, charging time wise and distance travel wise. Sure if you can pay for large heavy battery packs can go farther but way over top cost wise. The current grid will not support load it already has. Are you OK with single source for your energy? Current power grids have trouble meeting peaks now. Has everyone forgotten ENRON ?Does it bother that make just as much pollution as gasoline engines on a "well to well basis ?" Won't get much more than 25-30% using both solar and wind in good locations. do you mind paying .40 Kwhr for electric instead of US average .12c
Why doesn't the govt use EVs for delivering mail or military vehicles if so good ? Have you seen whats happens when they get wet (Fisker cars all exploded and burnt during Sandy) or power lines down ?
Actually the Post office is bringing in EV vehicles into the mix, especially in large metro areas. They have added 30 EV carriers in NY, and has plans to greatly increase EV and Alt Fuel vehicles into their mix.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:15 AM   #69
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I'll be okay, you'll still be an idiot though. Good luck Stephanie.
Yup, the idiot putting multi-4-figures back in the bank account every year. The idiot using the sun to power his home and daily driver. If that's an idiot, then yup. Better than being a luddite!
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:25 AM   #70
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Wow, idiot, luddite. This is productive, carry on. I am sure both of you are one post away form changing each others mind.

Now I have to go freeze dry some deer I killed my bare hands..
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #71
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oh boy, lets try to get back on track:

China has not set a ban date; although England and France have set 2040, China has not.
China is making strides to lessen the ruination/pollution of their own country, I doubt it has much to do with the international climate, that is just an added bonus.

It is a safe move for China to jump on this emerging market, they are in a position to throw resources (people, money etc.) at it. Just because England and France are setting goals of 2040 does not mean that the US will set the same goal or even a similar goal; however it will likely happen on a state level first (CA, MA, RI, NY) and likely start on the city level as much of NY and CA are remote; RI and MA are states that could make it happen statewide by 2040, but it would be a difficult target to hit if they don't get started.

This is just my opinion, based off of what I can glean from the internet, and hallucinations that were induced by huffing strange stuff in my garage.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #72
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Does it bother that make just as much pollution as gasoline engines on a "well to well basis ?" Won't get much more than 25-30% using both solar and wind in good locations.
This statement is location dependent, and only looking at a snapshot of what the grid looks like today. Speaking in absolutes only makes your argument less valid. The grid is getting more and more green every day. And, whether you believe it or not, there are places in this country where renewable power makes up the majority of the electricity... Without paying more, I receive only 3% of my electricity from fossil fuel burning (2% coal, 1% NG). I recognize that I'm in the minority, but there's also tons of electric cars on the road here, and I may be following that path soon for my commuter.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:44 AM   #73
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I would be cautious about saying what percentage of energy you get from what. The grid is connected. Green energy companies use all the same infrastructure as coal. You really have no way of knowing what amount you get from who. It is great marketing. The only way to be sure is to make your own power.

I have no idea what percentage I am, nor do I care. Nor will I ever car. When I turn on the switch I want the light to go ON. LOL
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:45 AM   #74
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I would be cautious about saying what percentage of energy you get from what. The grid is connected. Green energy companies use all the same infrastructure as coal. You really have no way of knowing what amount you get from who. It is great marketing. The only way to be sure is to make your own power.

I have no idea what percentage I am, nor do I care. Nor will I ever car. When I turn on the switch I want the light to go ON. LOL
Actually, it's state law for them to report, not just "marketing". I live in an environmental/liberal bubble. CA gets all the attention, but WA is in many regards even further, driven by Seattle.
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Washington state law requires utilities to publish their fuel mix for customers. The chart below indicates the types of fuel sources the PUD used during 2015:

Coal Generation1 2%
Hydroelectric Generation 87%
Natural Gas Generation1 1%
Nuclear Generation2 10%
Wind Generation 0%
Total 100%
Based on data received from the state of Washington on 5/3/17 (year-end figures updated each summer of the following year).
1The PUD does not have coal or natural gas resources in its power supply portfolio. It does make market purchases to balance or match its loads and resources. The state requires the PUD to assume that a portion of these market purchases are attributed to coal even though the utility intentionally strives to avoid purchases from carbon-emitting resources.
2BPA-supplied.

A portion of the PUD's environmental attributes from its renewable resources have been sold to fund the utility's renewable energy and R&D projects.
http://www.snopud.com/PowerSupply.ashx?p=1105

I do care where I get my electricity from. I care that the lights turn on, yes, but I also care about each light's impact on the environment, not just it's impact on my wallet. My desire to own a fast gasoline powered car that gets crappy gas mileage is an internal battle I fight often.

Last edited by dwf137; 09-13-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:47 AM   #75
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Doesn't the state of Washington actually require consumers to pay a fee when purchasing EV's instead of providing a tax incentive?
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