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Old 06-12-2018, 10:54 AM   #76
keepclam
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Originally Posted by dboz View Post
A manual wagon would be an absolute fail. Anyone who has tried it here has failed. Manuals are dinosaurs. Most buyers today never grew up having to learn to drive a manual. As you posted you live in a dense area. Who wants to shift gears in that environment? Not many. They get worse gas mileage on top of it all, plus as we learned, it makes safety systems less effective or unusable.

So as I mentioned before, most buyers obviously like boring, slow, good mpg, safe, practical, roomy cars. I am not one of those so my options are greatly reduced in value brand cars. Just the reality that the XT exit reinforced.

Can't blame anyone but the people who also come to the same conclusion as you and buy the practical vehicle with your money. Why would you come crawling back, you bought from them anyway.

Seen many run out and suddenly buy a 2018 XT thinking they are going to be valuable or something? To who? No one bought them new. Yeah, the same people on here who drive 10-15 year old vehicles and wonder why they stop making the stuff. LOL
His post didnít mention manual transmissions.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:11 AM   #77
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So why are you on this board? Subaru is obviously doing just great without you.

If you don't like where Subaru is going, there must be other boards that better suit your tastes and interests.
Pre is here for News and Rumors, same reason I & others are here - I've still got a Ru, but it's an 06 and a far cry from what Subaru is pushing these days (except for the EJ of course).

Most of us hang out in N&R and stay away from the rest of Nabisco because info tends to show up here first.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:15 AM   #78
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I bought a legacy for the wife because she asked for it. I would have preferred a mazda 6 in any day, but to her the cabin in the Legacy is what sold it. It was roomy. My point is you cannot predict one aspect of the design will sell the car. You make what you think will sell. I was dead set on buying an outback for my last car, but other options came into focus. The Ridgeline offered everything the outback did, but added more versatility. Subaru is not losing customers overall. They just are pushing a few out, but gaining more. Someday I would love a nice performance sedan for my wife, but currently she is satisfied with her 2.5i limited.

Car companies ebb and tide. breath deeply and buy what you want.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:16 AM   #79
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Pre is here for News and Rumors, same reason I & others are here - I've still got a Ru, but it's an 06 and a far cry from what Subaru is pushing these days (except for the EJ of course).

Most of us hang out in N&R and stay away from the rest of Nabisco because info tends to show up here first.
I'm here about New and Rumors, too. But all I see from him is complaints about hp. Takes away discussion about the other new technology and features that are important with new cars. He has stated clearly that he will not be buying Subaru going forward, so why hang out here.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:32 AM   #80
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The Ridgeline offered everything the outback did, but added more versatility.
I really want a Ridgeline (I had a first gen), wish it had another 1-2 inches of rear leg room though. That would seal the deal for me. Need to fit teenagers in the back.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:14 PM   #81
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I'm here about New and Rumors, too. But all I see from him is complaints about hp. Takes away discussion about the other new technology and features that are important with new cars. He has stated clearly that he will not be buying Subaru going forward, so why hang out here.
Obsessed by his "ex-girlfriend" who cheated him?
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:27 PM   #82
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I'm here about New and Rumors, too. But all I see from him is complaints about hp. Takes away discussion about the other new technology and features that are important with new cars. He has stated clearly that he will not be buying Subaru going forward, so why hang out here.
So what is important to you matters, and what is important to others isn't. Got it
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:34 PM   #83
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To me it's simply a numbers game. With one performance 5-door vehicle equipped with two transmissions Subaru could absorb outliers of lost sales.

Subaru sold 100% of the WRX they made, 50% of which were hatches.

10% of last gen Forester were FXT sales. Did they sell all of the ones they made?

Then, with a pick up of LGT wagon and OBXT sales, I think there's a huge case for a performance wagon now more than ever.

Offer lift kits, although I like CJ's idea better of offering lowering kits.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:21 PM   #84
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I'm here about New and Rumors, too. But all I see from him is complaints about hp. Takes away discussion about the other new technology and features that are important with new cars. He has stated clearly that he will not be buying Subaru going forward, so why hang out here.
Look newb, Sid already stated it, and I’ve got almost 10 years over you here, so go cry a river or get some cream for it.

I said no buy because there is no turbo hatch, just vanilla in the pipeline. Over the ten year period I’ve been here it’s been a steady decline of performance variants from Boobaru, with the FXT the latest victim. If you can take your WRB spectacles off you’d see there are dozens and dozens of me here. Folks who have migrated from Booby because of this, with more leaving. We stick around for N&R, and we generally don’t go into general or anywhere else.

But I’ll say what I want newb, if you can’t handle it you should maybe man up. Do some push ups or something
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:32 PM   #85
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Pre, you just do you. Don't ever change.

And, yes, I'm enabling, but you bring me joy.

Come at me bro.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:47 PM   #86
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Look newb, Sid already stated it, and Iíve got almost 10 years over you here, so go cry a river or get some cream for it.

I said no buy because there is no turbo hatch, just vanilla in the pipeline. Over the ten year period Iíve been here itís been a steady decline of performance variants from Boobaru, with the FXT the latest victim. If you can take your WRB spectacles off youíd see there are dozens and dozens of me here. Folks who have migrated from Booby because of this, with more leaving. We stick around for N&R, and we generally donít go into general or anywhere else.

But Iíll say what I want newb, if you canít handle it you should maybe man up. Do some push ups or something
could it be possible they introduce a newer turbo to the sport trim for the US.
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:31 PM   #87
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could it be possible they introduce a newer turbo to the sport trim for the US.
That would be good for them, but weíve been waiting since 2014 for....something, anything. Starting in 2019 itís sedan only offerings.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:49 PM   #88
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I'll also say that I think Subaru isn't properly evaluating the market value of the performance and enthusiast segment. They seem to only be looking at sales volume figures and aren't testing the waters of simply increasing the average selling price in their enthusiast niche.

The XT wasn't a performance machine, it was a more expensive Forester that just happened to appeal to a small percentage of the population who appreciate it for what it was.

Subaru would be better served to focus on making more appealing enthusiast cars KNOWING that they won't sell more in terms of volume, but absolutely could make a lot more money per unit to justify the line.

In other words, they aren't going to suddenly start selling thousands more WRX's and STI's and other turbo subarus but they COULD suddenly start selling them for $10-20k more per unit if they decided to go up-scale and have models available in their enthusiast segment be more like a Volvo or Audi.

Kinda like how Ford allows a Mustang enthusiast to spend however much they like starting in the 20's for the base model all the way up to over $80 grand now for the new GT 350...

I'd certainly be willing to spend $50k on a Subaru if they put out a Legacy GT that matches the stinger. I'd pay a few grand more for the Subaru entry than I would with the Kia.

Same goes for the STI, I think a lot of guys would gladly pay 10 or 15 more for an STI if there was a performance package that gave it over 400hp, adaptave suspension and some other goodies...

Subaru needs to stop looking at the number of sales and needs to start testing the idea of maximizing the value of that loyal segment. They can expand profit in other ways without writing the segment off because we don't multiply in the double digits every year.

Otherwise we're just all going to be driving Stingers and Audi's in 5 years...
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:56 PM   #89
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I am going to hope that what we do see next is a NEW pickup based on the ASCENT platform to rival the Ridgeline. That would get my 40-45K. Until then, I won't be paying 50G for ANY Subaru. They just aren't stylish enough, don't perform at a high enough level. Is the RA STI really 50G? WOW, I guess this is their test to see if they can sell a vehicle at that price range. My guess, they won't unless fanboys think it will be collectable, which it may.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:29 PM   #90
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Subaru truck ain't happening.

Subaru already proved that enthusiasts will spend top dollar without much incentive. See the Type RA and compare it with the 2019. Asking them to compete with luxury lines is totally missing what Subaru does.

I'd also like a luxury line from Subaru and a truck, plus a van. I'm helping them grow one vehicle at a time.

You're welcome, enthusiasts.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:38 PM   #91
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So long as Subaru saves on frivolous expensive items like engines and beefed up transmissions and charges the same amount for the vehicle, thus making more in margins, I'M ALL FOR IT. Customers don't know the difference anyways.

As an enthusiast on an enthusiast website, cheerleading all of SOA's decisions is job one.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:56 PM   #92
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cheerleading all of SOA's decisions is job one.
Then they need to buy some skirts and get ready for piihb.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:28 PM   #93
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Look newb, Sid already stated it, and Iíve got almost 10 years over you here, so go cry a river or get some cream for it.

I said no buy because there is no turbo hatch, just vanilla in the pipeline. Over the ten year period Iíve been here itís been a steady decline of performance variants from Boobaru, with the FXT the latest victim. If you can take your WRB spectacles off youíd see there are dozens and dozens of me here. Folks who have migrated from Booby because of this, with more leaving. We stick around for N&R, and we generally donít go into general or anywhere else.

But Iíll say what I want newb, if you canít handle it you should maybe man up. Do some push ups or something
Well, I am not new to Subaru (4 so far), bought first one in 95 (Legacy Wagon), and just last year bought an 18 Crosstrek (best Soobie yet). Was looking at getting an Ascent, but have some concerns about now about it.

In your case, you said you are no longer interested in buying another Subaru. So why not just go away?
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:58 PM   #94
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Trolls never just go away. NASIOC is the bridge Pre lives under.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:18 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by BrandonDrums View Post
I'll also say that I think Subaru isn't properly evaluating the market value of the performance and enthusiast segment. They seem to only be looking at sales volume figures and aren't testing the waters of simply increasing the average selling price in their enthusiast niche.

The XT wasn't a performance machine, it was a more expensive Forester that just happened to appeal to a small percentage of the population who appreciate it for what it was.

Subaru would be better served to focus on making more appealing enthusiast cars KNOWING that they won't sell more in terms of volume, but absolutely could make a lot more money per unit to justify the line.

In other words, they aren't going to suddenly start selling thousands more WRX's and STI's and other turbo subarus but they COULD suddenly start selling them for $10-20k more per unit if they decided to go up-scale and have models available in their enthusiast segment be more like a Volvo or Audi.

Kinda like how Ford allows a Mustang enthusiast to spend however much they like starting in the 20's for the base model all the way up to over $80 grand now for the new GT 350...

I'd certainly be willing to spend $50k on a Subaru if they put out a Legacy GT that matches the stinger. I'd pay a few grand more for the Subaru entry than I would with the Kia.

Same goes for the STI, I think a lot of guys would gladly pay 10 or 15 more for an STI if there was a performance package that gave it over 400hp, adaptave suspension and some other goodies...

Subaru needs to stop looking at the number of sales and needs to start testing the idea of maximizing the value of that loyal segment. They can expand profit in other ways without writing the segment off because we don't multiply in the double digits every year.

Otherwise we're just all going to be driving Stingers and Audi's in 5 years...
Yeah. You are just not understanding the core Subaru buyer. They already complain about the XTs price. Heck, even the WRX/STI's price. Now, you want to increase it? I have zero doubt there are "a lot" of people willing to spend more money on a "better" Subaru. 5% of Forester's total sales is "a lot" of people as well. Just don't think it would be "enough" for Subaru. I want pretty much everything everyone here wants. I also don't like having old age units sit on my dealer's lot. Manuals. XT's. MANUAL XT'S(hell. We had one have a birthday on the lot). Wagons. The WRX wagons sat. The hatch was popular(at least at my dealer).

Quote:
Subaru needs to stop looking at the number of sales and needs to start testing the idea of maximizing the value of that loyal segment.


They are already the best in their segments for value. Lowest incentives in the industry. Elaborate your statement. Am I misunderstanding?

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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
2007 wasn't the economy. Subaru was the only Japanese brand down that year. 2006 was artificial. Subaru spent a lot of money in incentives to hit that sales record. 2007 saw a price repositioning and a pull back in incentives. 2007 was Subaru's reset button.
They were incentivizing a lot up to that point; so, are you saying that the several increasing years up to that point were "artificial"? Of course they would incentivize. They did it again in 2011 to get that "+1" to continue the streak that is still going. Sales are sales and they saw they needed to re-adjust things. Hence the price repositioning. The "economy" statement can be debated several ways. Japanese companies were up. American's were down. Americans moved over to Japanese? Subaru was still their old selves then. Quirky car; but, small and worst(much in some cases) MPG than it's bigger competitors. But, that year was also when they FINALLY realized America's potential; and, as you put it, their reset. And who was instrumental in that? Hmmm....

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It took Toyo/Honda 10 years of bland before it hit them. It will hit Booby too, just not today.

Iíve got no skin in this game. Booby can quit making any performance cars today and it wouldnít affect me one bit. Last 3 purchases were not Subarus and the next wonít be either.
Quite possible. But, Toyota and Honda had nixed ALL their "fun" cars as well. Heck, Toyota still only brought back ONE fun car and with who's help? And have to consider the shift in customer demand. Talking about the "known" future of Toyota's fun car return means nothing cause we have no clue what's in store from Subaru in that same time frame. As we all know how secretive Subaru is. And, of course, I am not saying/hinting/ or whatever that Subaru has something up their sleeve that will compare to a Supra return. Just that we may see a "proper" LGT again instead of these "Sport" models.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:22 AM   #96
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They were incentivizing a lot up to that point; so, are you saying that the several increasing years up to that point were "artificial"? Of course they would incentivize. They did it again in 2011 to get that "+1" to continue the streak that is still going. Sales are sales and they saw they needed to re-adjust things. Hence the price repositioning. The "economy" statement can be debated several ways. Japanese companies were up. American's were down. Americans moved over to Japanese? Subaru was still their old selves then. Quirky car; but, small and worst(much in some cases) MPG than it's bigger competitors. But, that year was also when they FINALLY realized America's potential; and, as you put it, their reset. And who was instrumental in that? Hmmm....
Incentive spending in 2011 was at a 5 year low industry wide and Subaru still had the lowest incentive spend. Subaru's 2011 streak continuance was not on the back of incentives. It was on the back of Subaru finding enough production. They bought their way to a sales record in 2006. 2006 was the first time in a long time Subaru was in the red for a fiscal year. It wasn't a sustainable business model. In 2007 The domestics were hurting, but auto sales were still booming. Over 16 million vehicles sold and all manufacturing groups were up except GM, Ford, and Chrysler. All the Japanese were up with the exception of Subaru. Even Suzuki and Mitsubishi were up. In 2007, Subaru drastically lowered incentives and customer rebates went away. Subaru went through a natural contraction in volume. The price repositioning was just one of the initiatives that helped turn Subaru around. While the domestics struggled in 2007, it wasn't until 2008 that the economy came home to roost for the auto industry. You can't site the one year the economy wasn't the issue for the industry and then ignore the subsequent years in which it was actually an issue...all the while Subaru grew in volume, market share, and set annual records...without resorting to incentives to keep the dream alive.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #97
Pre
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Well, I am not new to Subaru (4 so far), bought first one in 95 (Legacy Wagon), and just last year bought an 18 Crosstrek (best Soobie yet). Was looking at getting an Ascent, but have some concerns about now about it.

In your case, you said you are no longer interested in buying another Subaru. So why not just go away?
Not until what they make what many of us want, a turbo 5 door hatchack like they used to.

You don't dictate me staying here. Sorry loser.

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Trolls never just go away. NASIOC is the bridge Pre lives under.
Trolls are what's up your arse dude.


What's funny is the Subaru pamper wearers are the ones crying. Big surprise. Someone doesn't worship your deity and offers criticism and you cry like a baby who just lost all its' sweets.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:17 AM   #98
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Trolls are what's up your arse dude.


What's funny is the Subaru pamper wearers are the ones crying. Big surprise. Someone doesn't worship your deity and offers criticism and you cry like a baby who just lost all its' sweets.
some are crying, you are constantly on full meltdown.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:50 AM   #99
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some are crying, you are constantly on full meltdown.
In fairness, we all take turns.

My top three self-quotes for 2018

1.) "No manual no care"
2.) "Too many nannies"
3.) "I'm going to skip this half-pregnant driver-aids segment of cars"
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:58 AM   #100
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GREAT idea.. we should all do some self reflection!

My top three self quotes for 2018

1) "I hate Elon Musk"
2) "I like that car, it may be my next car"
3) "I can has a Levorg"
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