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Old 10-08-2018, 10:15 PM   #1
Parkieus
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Exclamation Build Complete, now what to expect

Hey guys!

Firstly thanks for having this forum, so much awesome information here!

That being said, I recently had a local shop build me an engine and install it (that was a goddamn **** show) and after being told that "A Tune isnt included in the 8k engine build" and the car running not great and the DAM is at .688 after being at the tuner for 3 days straight...ok ok ok im getting ahead of myself.

Essentially: I realize that I've been hosed, and now i feel I cant trust much of what my shop and tuner are saying. They are a GTR mainly shop, so im beginning to think maybe they just bit off too much and my dumb ass went along with it. But I will say the shop can build an engine, zero piston slap, smooth as butter...if they could only tune a car theyd have a good shop...

Anyway, here are the specs for the build:

2006 WRX
ENGINE
-Manley Performance Platinum 99.75mm 8:5:1
-Manley H-Tuff Connecting Rods
-Nitrated Salt Bathed Crank
-Nameless Air Pump Deletes
-King Engine Bearings
-King connecting rod bearing set
-ARP Head Studs
-All new 100mm gaskets
-GSC S1 Cams
-GSC Beehives
-GSC Exhaust Valve
-Radium Fuel System/Rails
-1300cc IDs
-Walbro 255 (?)
-Dominator 1.5x
-Cobb EBC

Randoms and Bolt Ons
-Grimmspeed Bored Intake Manifold
-DriveShaftShop Aluminum Driveshaft
-650whp axles
-Cobb CAI
-Grimmspeed TMIC


After three days of tuning (so they say) its sitting at .688 DAM, has trouble cold starting (air pump deletes?) and pulls softer than when it was stock.

Dyno at 286whp...and they are telling me I need to go Speed Density in order to really get it in tune correct and e85...

Can someone more knowledge than me weigh in on whats going on?

Many thanks.
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Last edited by Parkieus; 10-08-2018 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:51 PM   #2
subaru_gc8
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Yeah sd or get a 75mm intake not going to go too much over 330ish ,depending on the dyno, with the stock intake. what you can look at is the MAF voltage. if you are near 5 you are basically maxed out

as far as the dam, the way I understand it is it dam is a mulitplier so you probaly have a bunch of timing and its getting pulled back cause of knock.

Last edited by subaru_gc8; 10-08-2018 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:40 AM   #3
mrsaturn7085
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3 days of tuning? Wow.

Yeah you really should be on speed density already, but I suspect the tune is a mess. You'll be needing to address the cams, boost control, and injectors in addition to the usual fuel and spark. To expect them to do that for free is your bad for not making the proper agreement up front before dropping $8,000 on a build. The amount of work involved in even giving you a good baseline map is quite high.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:08 AM   #4
Parkieus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
3 days of tuning? Wow.

Yeah you really should be on speed density already, but I suspect the tune is a mess. You'll be needing to address the cams, boost control, and injectors in addition to the usual fuel and spark. To expect them to do that for free is your bad for not making the proper agreement up front before dropping $8,000 on a build. The amount of work involved in even giving you a good baseline map is quite high.

Thanks man!

I really just need a few opinions on the matter. Like I said, the shop can build an engine.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:03 AM   #5
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkieus View Post
Thanks man!

I really just need a few opinions on the matter. Like I said, the shop can build an engine.
What area are you from?

I would find the best subaru tuning option closest to you or hope someone can send you an E-tune.

It should not take 3 days to tune alone (unless they are learning), If they needed parts from an issue that came up then sure maybe. But my experience with having my car tuned has always been to "need" about 5 pulls and maybe a quick road adjustment for part throttle and such.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:21 PM   #6
rtv900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post

It should not take 3 days to tune alone
I seriously doubt they've spent anywhere near 3 actual days tuning.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:51 PM   #7
Parkieus
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I seriously doubt they've spent anywhere near 3 actual days tuning.
Yea obviously thatís not true. Owner is sure making it seem like my car Inconvenienced his entire shop....
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:55 PM   #8
Parkieus
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Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
What area are you from?h.
Southwest US. I donít want anything creeping back to me while I sort this out so Iím not gonna mention specific shops...

The plan right now is to let the current shop get the DAM back to 1 they say they have a ticket in with Cobb. Then Iíll take it to a well known tuner about 45 from my house. Heís booked 3 months out so plenty of time.


Just irks me that Iíve spent 14k and the car gained 50-75whp over stock. Definitely needs a tuning adjustment.

Obviously Iíd its pulling timing to .688 the pulls and whp arenít going to be correct I assume?
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:07 PM   #9
Parkieus
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This morning cruising at 50mph cars warm.




Looked at my logs last night, it isnít hitting 5volts on the MAF but I only had a 80% pull on the logs to look at.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:53 PM   #10
dev6565
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The DAM is a correction for timing as a result of consistent amounts of learned knock over a period of time. That means that the engine determined that it had to globally reduce timing across the rpm and load range by over 30% (timing value x .68 = output timing value) to keep the engine from knocking. That means that the current tune on the car isn't even close to right and your new engine is knocking like crazy when under load. You will never see any power out of an engine that has all the timing pulled out of it.

Do you have an aftermarket wideband gauge on the car? If not I would suggest you invest in one. It will tell you whether or not the engine is running at an appropriate air fuel ratio. A consistently lean mixture at high load can easily destroy your 14k investment regardless of any parts being forged or not.

And of course run the hell away from these clowns saying they're tuning your car. They're going to send you off with a garbage tune and you're going to make a couple pulls and blow the engine up. They'll blame it on you and you'll be out 14k.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:05 PM   #11
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkieus View Post
Southwest US. I donít want anything creeping back to me while I sort this out so Iím not gonna mention specific shops...

The plan right now is to let the current shop get the DAM back to 1 they say they have a ticket in with Cobb. Then Iíll take it to a well known tuner about 45 from my house. Heís booked 3 months out so plenty of time.


Just irks me that Iíve spent 14k and the car gained 50-75whp over stock. Definitely needs a tuning adjustment.

Obviously Iíd its pulling timing to .688 the pulls and whp arenít going to be correct I assume?
So I just noticed you keep mentioning this .688 value for DAM, have you reset the ECU sense it dropped? Does it keep going back to .688 or did it simply drop to that and is "stuck" there?

I have had my DAM drop before, but it was a clear fluke that never happened again.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:46 PM   #12
subaru_gc8
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heres a suggestion, put 2 gallons of e85 and reset the ecu, see if the dam comes up, if it does, your timing map needs to be adusted
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:21 PM   #13
TrueToTheEdge
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Speed Density is where it's at. Subaru's are definitely their own animal when it comes to tuning but if you're in socal, there are plenty of good tuners. Paul at Yimisport, Jon at 5150 Racing, Ron at Phatbotti...any of these guys can get your car running correctly. If you have any questions, shoot me a message on here or IG (name is the same there).
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:34 AM   #14
mikeydrives1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueToTheEdge View Post
Speed Density is where it's at. Subaru's are definitely their own animal when it comes to tuning but if you're in socal, there are plenty of good tuners. Paul at Yimisport, Jon at 5150 Racing, Ron at Phatbotti...any of these guys can get your car running correctly. If you have any questions, shoot me a message on here or IG (name is the same there).
x2

Speed density is a far superior and adaptable way to tune them. A MAF sensor can be fooled in so many ways to running the car wrong (leaks, ect) but with speed density, its a calculation based on the MAP sensor and Intake temp at / near the throttle body, so any major air leaks prior to the throttle (esp with FMIC guys who pop couplers off accidentally) wont be detrimental to the tune. In a MAF based scheme, a Vac leak could very well prevent the car from being able to be driven if its severe enough. On SD, you could basically run open throttle and the calibration for fueling would be spot on enough to drive the car safely home.
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:17 PM   #15
Parkieus
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Hey guys thanks for the replies!!

So they figured out they had to re position the knock sensor for built engines after consulting Cobb...DAM went right back up to 1.00 and hasnít moved since.

Car seems to run fine, AF sitting at 11.7 or so during wot. Pulls hard. Doesnít appear to be running lean.

Iím going to do flex fuel and speed Density for the tune at another shop in town. The engine mechanics are great. Zero piston slap except minimal amount at warm up..Sheís built well, just gotta find a shop that can do both build and tune.

Is there a place a can upload data logs to so you guys can take a look?
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:48 PM   #16
pcampbell
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Default Build Complete, now what to expect

So whatíre the new dyno numbers ?

Last edited by pcampbell; 11-30-2018 at 07:44 AM.
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