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02-18-2019, 07:44 PM | #201 | |
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There's a reason both wealth and poverty tends to be multi-generational. If you're born to parents with little financial acumen, who possibly work multiple jobs, or are underemployed, poor schools and challenging local employment opportunities, can you realistically expect to attain that knowledge?
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02-18-2019, 07:52 PM | #202 |
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Alex Keaton overcame his parents' hippie influence.
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02-18-2019, 07:59 PM | #203 |
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02-18-2019, 08:16 PM | #204 | |
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02-18-2019, 08:21 PM | #205 | |
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As for wealth and poverty spanning generations, I don't think that's predicated by "wealth and poverty" alone. I find that has more to do more with your previous assessment about the upbringing. |
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02-18-2019, 08:31 PM | #206 | |
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I ****ing knew it. HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT THE RICH KID LIVING IN A STABLE! |
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02-18-2019, 08:32 PM | #207 | |
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The path that one is likely to follow with the least resistance is heavily influenced by one’s upbringing: parents (both genetics/environment), community, schools. But one can move up or down the ladder as well: overdoses are egalitarian, and on the flip side one of my med school classmates was a former high school dropout who had been homeless for a stretch. Wherever one ends up, however, I argue that it’s possible to make ends meet. Low income types are supported by the EITC, food stamps, housing assistance, Saver’s Credit, Medicaid, etc. and things like ACA subsidies even extend to well above the poverty line. Those backstops are insufficient if one pays usurious interest rates at the corner payday loan place, pays 25% for a car that’s soon repossessed at the buy here/pay here lot on the other corner, and engages in some stupid status signaling on top of that to boot, whether that’s manifest as a 15 year old BMW or buying a side by side on credit. So I support Bernie/Warren style things like regulating payday lenders... but the high interest car mavens of the world make the valid point that they’re the lender of last resort for people who don’t even meet the Mitsubishi/Nissan subprime standards. (This would be where I’d say to take the bus as one’s time is clearly not of great value here, but we’ve already been down that road.) Can’t save everyone from themself. |
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02-18-2019, 08:33 PM | #208 |
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02-18-2019, 08:37 PM | #209 | |
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02-18-2019, 08:49 PM | #210 |
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02-18-2019, 09:03 PM | #211 | |
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One can move up the ladder, sure, but at this point there are institutional policies in place actively preventing it. Some tied to race and even more tied to class. "Just take the bus" doesn't work for anyone who lives more than 10 - 25 miles outside of a major metropolitan area, which again, is more of America than what you've been exposed to. |
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02-18-2019, 09:10 PM | #212 | |
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Where did I mention race? Projecting now? IQ has a genetic component, modulated by environment when growing up, and our natural tendency to pick mates of similar social strata and educational status probably reinforces this hereditability further. |
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02-18-2019, 09:15 PM | #213 | |
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I agree that the demonization of public assistance is a problem. I haven’t experienced this firsthand but Hillbilly Elegy spoke to this: whole communities on said assistance yet resentful of it. Learned helplessness. What policies are you referring to that limit mobility? Snobbishness when reviewing resumes? I’ve lived in small towns, too, like Coos Bay, Oregon. Those places usually come with a sufficiently lower cost of living to allow one to get a car, even if economically most people there would be better if they picked up, moved to a big city with better job prospects, and took the bus there. |
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02-18-2019, 09:20 PM | #214 | |||
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Whether it all helps or not, I think these programs are absolutely necessary. You want to provide for those that will be able to use this little bit of help to better themselves and hopefully generations down the line. The ones that just take advantage without trying harder, well help them too. Just the cost of trying to make things better. No effort = no results. We should still try. The effort may reach those that want saving. |
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02-18-2019, 09:39 PM | #215 | ||
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My parents still live in Northern Cambria, PA 2000 census Quote:
Forget just the financials, may of these families are also caring for elderly family members. |
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02-18-2019, 09:42 PM | #216 |
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Coos Bay is a lumber town. That’s dying but not dead. Now there’s a casino and service industries, as far as I can tell.
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02-18-2019, 09:44 PM | #217 |
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There's nothing left in rural PA except heroin. This is happening to lots of towns in the northeast, basically along the whole span of Appalachia.
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02-18-2019, 09:51 PM | #218 | |
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Relevant reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ocracy/559130/ |
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02-18-2019, 10:11 PM | #219 | |
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That's a good article. It's something I've struggled with recently about where I'm from and where I am now, but not actually struggling because my wife and I are 5%'ers when you look at combined income - largely because of...you guessed it...help from parents to get us where we are now. |
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02-18-2019, 10:23 PM | #220 | |
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02-18-2019, 10:32 PM | #221 | |
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Good article. Much of it is like Coming Apart with some added commentary. See Super ZIPs in Coming Apart, for instance. Such self loathing from the author, though. He frames everything in terms of exclusion, even for things very much not zero sum. His discussion on marriage rates comes to mind: through what mechanism is the 9.9% to blame for this? richde? You seem good at this guilt-assignment game. |
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02-18-2019, 11:14 PM | #222 | |
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02-18-2019, 11:32 PM | #223 | |
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02-18-2019, 11:36 PM | #224 |
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I wonder how many people here know someone that was truly "dirt poor?"
I went to school with some of those kids growing up. They came to school dirty, got free lunch, and lived in what most people would consider a shack. They got picked on endlessly... If you don't think the odds are stacked to be almost insurmountable for someone like that... |
02-19-2019, 12:05 AM | #225 | |||
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Wealth and Poverty is multi-generational, specifically because of the multi-generational knowledge, or lack thereof being transferred from parents to children, so on and so forth. Children of well off or otherwise highly resourceful parents benefit from immeasurable benefits from more engaged parenting, better home education, generally more stable homes, lower levels of domestic abuse, no food insecurity (which has been clearly proven to seriously hinder learning performance) so on, so forth. Children who grow up in poverty often lack one or more of these factors, while upward mobility is possible, every statistic there is, shows it's significantly less common than I think most people are aware of. Quote:
If the primary topic of discussion here is a hypothetical household making middle to upper middle class income yet live paycheck to paycheck, then yes, in many of those cases, lack of personal responsibility may very well play a part. But I still maintain the position that resolving poverty, underemployment and the systemic challenges faced in this country will largely tackle the issues in the middle class, as a lot of the things you can implement will have positive impacts across the board. Quote:
No, you can't save everyone from themselves, but it's possible to try, and over time, the success rate can be pretty dang high. Current state is also a waste of resources (people) and money (continued dependence on welfare programs), like most things worth your time or money, the upfront investment cost may be high, but the long term benefits and potential cost savings are profound. |
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