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Old 03-15-2019, 02:54 PM   #51
chanomatik
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Oh gotcha. I know that's becoming a trend. Tuck everyone into the sheet metal and let the sensors and cameras drive you.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:11 PM   #52
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Is the belt line retardedly high or did they get a little person test driver? Also a fast back sedan is not a great people carrier. They should have gone straight back with the roof and raised the rear passenger area to fit more batteries.
This image looks horizontally compressed and kind of unlike the other profile shots. Hard to say.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:21 PM   #53
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Also a fast back sedan is not a great people carrier. They should have gone straight back with the roof and raised the rear passenger area to fit more batteries.
Batteries are between the wheelbase.. so raising the D pillar or the seats over the rear drive unit wouldn't give any more room for batteries.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:36 PM   #54
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:11 AM   #55
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Batteries are between the wheelbase.. so raising the D pillar or the seats over the rear drive unit wouldn't give any more room for batteries.
If they boosted the rear seat the rear foot well could be raised too, that looks to be between the wheel wells.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:02 AM   #56
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Yes the design, like the 3, is a little plain but plain sells. I like it and could see this thing being in my garage one day. I would go with the AWD version, that's a lot of functionality and performance for the money.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:20 PM   #57
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Yes the design, like the 3, is a little plain but plain sells. I like it and could see this thing being in my garage one day. I would go with the AWD version, that's a lot of functionality and performance for the money.
Iím wondering how much itís going to cannibalize the sales of the model 3. I personally think it looks a lot better, probably because itís tallwr and the squared back and comparing the identical trims on model 3 vs the Y, I think the Y is a much better bargain.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:48 PM   #58
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Iím wondering how much itís going to cannibalize the sales of the model 3. I personally think it looks a lot better, probably because itís tallwr and the squared back and comparing the identical trims on model 3 vs the Y, I think the Y is a much better bargain.
Yeah I agree the rear being taller makes it look nice. As far as having more space it would better for me and the panoramic roof looks sweet. Maybe we will get one for the wife. We will see.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:24 PM   #59
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Definitely looks better.

The ground clearance looks pretty small for an SUV.

I bet these will sell pretty well.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:01 PM   #60
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Yeah I agree the rear being taller makes it look nice. As far as having more space it would better for me and the panoramic roof looks sweet. Maybe we will get one for the wife. We will see.
Iím curious to know how many people might now put off buying a model 3 and wait for the Y. Hopefully it doesnít cause Model 3 sales to plummet. I think it would have been a good marketing move to make some sort of advertised deal that if you buy a Model 3 today and trade in for the Y, youíd be guaranteed a higher trade in value than normal.


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Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
Definitely looks better.

The ground clearance looks pretty small for an SUV.

I bet these will sell pretty well.
I have a hard time calling it an SUV. It seems more like a standard crossover CUV type vehicle.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:28 PM   #61
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Is it anything like when there's a Base trim and a Premium trim, where some people just really want to pay as little as possible to be associated with the brand? I would think that's where the 3 would excel. Entry-level Tesla for the bargain bin buyer.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:13 PM   #62
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I’m curious to know how many people might now put off buying a model 3 and wait for the Y. Hopefully it doesn’t cause Model 3 sales to plummet. I think it would have been a good marketing move to make some sort of advertised deal that if you buy a Model 3 today and trade in for the Y, you’d be guaranteed a higher trade in value than normal.




I have a hard time calling it an SUV. It seems more like a standard crossover CUV type vehicle.
yeah, people wonder why the Model Y reveal was so **** and is because they are anti-selling the Model Y, they are worried about model 3 customers possibly holding off on their purchase.

That would be nice if they offer a trade in program because I would consider it. Although I might still want to have the faster car by 0.3 seconds .

If they had made the rear like a normal SUV similar to the CR-V or RAV-4 the range would not have been 300 miles.

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Old 03-16-2019, 05:25 PM   #63
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This will 1000% cannibalize 3 sales. It's happening with the entire industry as more Americans shift from passenger cars to CUV/SUV.

My wife is on her third Honda Odyssey (driven nothing but an Odyssey for the last 14 years). In a year or two I would love to ditch it for a Y as she has averaged about 18K miles a year the last three years. That's a lot of gas and oil changes
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:30 PM   #64
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4:28 he mentions it's a true hatchback with rear lift gate, but no one was allowed to open the trunks.
Got damnit

Ridgeline just got some competition then. 51k for AWD. I wish heíd make the truck first. Itís the next model after this thing. Hopefully this will get a tow rating of few thousand pounds. Iirc, Model 3 is rated for 200 lb tongue weight and 2000 lbs. Thatís all I need, but would prefer a bed.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:43 PM   #65
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Hatchback is visible in this video


Edit: to save you the 25 seconds, even though it is a good 25 seconds


Last edited by shikataganai; 03-17-2019 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:26 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Yes the design, like the 3, is a little plain but plain sells. I like it and could see this thing being in my garage one day. I would go with the AWD version, that's a lot of functionality and performance for the money.
Quote:
This will 1000% cannibalize 3 sales. It's happening with the entire industry as more Americans shift from passenger cars to CUV/SUV.

My wife is on her third Honda Odyssey (driven nothing but an Odyssey for the last 14 years). In a year or two I would love to ditch it for a Y as she has averaged about 18K miles a year the last three years. That's a lot of gas and oil changes

Thought of this article when reading your comment. Actually, others too.

Model Y Teaches Tesla A New Auto Industry Lesson, Not With A Bang But With A Whimper


Tesla's most lackluster new product reveal shows that the auto industry never runs out of hard lessons for inexperienced new players.


The history of Tesla is rich vein of revealing insights and timely lessons about everything from technology to celebrity, but ultimately the whole thing boils down to a single phrase: making cars is hard. That much is clear even in the abbreviated version of Tesla's narrative mythology that Elon Musk recounted at last night's Model Y reveal, which couldn't gloss over manufacturing problems that have plagued every single one of its cars. And when the Model Y finally did appear, it was instantly clear that it is the result of Tesla's near-permanent "production hell": barely distinguishable from the Model 3, Tesla's new crossover is the most lukewarm and evolutionary new product it has ever introduced.

Given that manufacturing has been a such a persistent problem for Tesla, this strategy makes a certain amount of sense. With 75% parts shared in common with the Model 3, the Model Y should be much easier to make efficiently and affordably than its more adventurous predecessors. Certainly, the well-documented problems that Tesla's hubris brought to the Model X (which ended up sharing just 30% of its parts with the Model S) won't be the issue here. But there are a million ways to fail in the car business, and the lessons from one challenge can easily drive an inexperienced automaker from one existential challenge to another. To paraphrase Tolstoy, profitable automakers are all alike; every unprofitable automaker is unprofitable in its own way.

In running the opposite direction from Model X's Fabergť Egg uniqueness and ambition, the Model Y has for the first time put Tesla in the position of facing criticism of a poorly-differentiated design. Now, auto industry watchers must all learn that taste is personal and the market may love what you hate, but there is one strategic design principle that transcends aesthetic preferences: the trick to a sedan-based crossover is to share as many parts as possible while maintaining a truly distinct look and package. Model X may have been too unique, but Model Y threatens to shift over to the opposite end of the spectrum, to a space inhabited by the worst examples of "brand engineering" and barely-distinguishable variants.

Somewhere between those two extremes is a sweet spot that for decades has been defined by Volkswagen. Using common platforms, and later modular "kits," VW manages to make a wide variety of products from the same underpinnings that still manage to present as unique entries. For example, VW's MQB modular kit supports vehicles as diverse as the Skoda Octavia, Audi TT and VW Atlas. Its "PL73 platform" underpins SUVs as well-differentiated as the Volkswagen Touareg, Lamborghini Urus and Bentley Bentayga. Toyota may have mastered manufacturing, but Volkswagen has built its own 10 million unit per year empire on its mastery of this balance between shared internals and unique look and feel.

The Model Y's immediately-recognizable problem is that it looks like it shares over 90% of its parts with the Model 3, rather than the 75% Tesla claims. This is undeniably problematic for a brand that has nurtured expectations of bold innovation and surprising and unconventional product design. Though often self-destructive, this defiance of standard industry practices is what gets Tesla fans to put down deposits two years before a new car comes available and spend the interim fighting off the critiques of haters and losers like your humble correspondent on Twitter. If the Model Y inspires any such passion, it hardly shows so far... and what little enthusiasm it has generated is unlikely to survive the next two years (plus the inevitable adjustment for "Elon Standard Time").

Luckily for Tesla, many of its customers are also investors and surely they will appreciate the firm's apparent new commitment to boring but achievable profit-boosting. The problem with Model Y as an "investor car" (rather than a "fan car" or a "brand-builder") is that Tesla doesn't seem able to execute such a car in a way that will actually benefit investors. The point of a car like this is to build it on the same line as its sister model, reduce tooling investments and supply chain variation to a minimum and get it to market rapidly so it can start boosting profit margins. We don't know for sure where Model Y will be built, besides Tesla's new, under-construction Chinese plant but it seems increasingly clear that it won't simply be cranked out in huge volumes next to the Model 3 at Fremont.

With Model Y volumes rightly expected to exceed the Model 3, and with Fremont apparently unable to produce the long-ago promised 500,000 units/year of Models S, X and 3, the Model Y is an orphan. Without knowing for sure whether the constraint at Fremont is simply space (which has doubtless been squeezed by the two more or less unusable Model 3 general assembly lines built before the tent-based GA4 line) or paint shop air quality permits, it's impossible to completely rule out Fremont-based North American production and Tesla is staying cagey about manufacturing plans. But until journalists with actual access to Tesla squeeze more facts out of its leadership, the fact that Tesla is even considering building the Model Y at the Nevada Gigafactory and Musk's admission that it needs the Shanghai plant to hit a half-million units per year all indicate that Fremont is unable to build enough Model Ys to serve the kind of North American sales volume that Tesla hopes for.

This means the most likely scenario is that Tesla will have to make massive investments at its battery plant outside Reno, Nevada and obtain new environmental permits in order to build the Model Y there. It may be able to ship some shared parts from the Model 3 line at Fremont over the Sierras, but it will almost certainly have to build a new body shop, paint shop and general assembly line in Nevada with all the billions in CapEx, years of environmental planning and hiring/training that requires. These investments mean that Model Y will require roughly a billion more dollars for capital expenditures there, which won't offer any further efficiencies unless Tesla decides to shift Model 3 production there or build yet another variant of its underpinnings in Nevada. It will also stretch its supply lines even further, and increase truck traffic at Fremont and the Gigafactory, further straining the already-overwhelmed logistics infrastructure at both plants.

Obviously some of this is speculative, and if I've learned anything covering Tesla it's that you can never predict what they'll do when they have their backs to the wall. Maybe they'll simply put the GA4 "Alien Tentnought" on wheels, ship it to the Gigafactory and turn that plant into a single Model 3/Y facility, opening space at Fremont for the Semi and Roadster which also need a manufacturing location. But even that scenario requires walking away from even more months of planning and billions in expenditures for the existing Model 3 strategy, which has cost the company some $4.5 billion in capital raises to reach the elusive 500,000 unit/year mark since 2016. Like Tesla's abortive attempt to walk away from its stores, radically reshaping an already insanely capital-inefficient manufacturing strategy after finally recovering from "production hell" will come with costs that Tesla may not be able to bear.

All of which goes to prove that "moving fast and breaking stuff" works a lot better in the intangible world of software than it does in the all-too-tangible realities of automotive manufacturing. For all the design innovations and unique features that Tesla brought to the auto industry, its lack of long-term planning has made it the worst exemplar of the capital inefficiency that has long been the bane of auto industry investors. If the Model Y does away with Tesla's trademark consumer-pleasing uniqueness without improving its efficiency with investor capital, the Model Y could signal the beginning of the end of an automaker that will make a fascinating case study for generations... not with a bang, but with a whimper.
Credit
Edward Niedermeyer
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:06 PM   #67
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Definitely looks better.

The ground clearance looks pretty small for an SUV.

I bet these will sell pretty well.
I agree. The model 3 was designed to have an air suspension option but it has not made it into the mix yet. I’m hoping they eventually add it to the Y so there can be more ground clearance on demand. The ground clearance is probably higher only due to the larger diameter tires, they seem to use the same wheels. There are 3rd party Model 3 lift kits that will give an additional 1.75” and I assume they will work on the Y as well.

I always wanted a sporty Crosstrek so I think the Model Y will do for me. After driving my AWD model 3 up a completely ice covered incline with Nokian R3 tires I’m sold on their drivetrain setup. Does great in snow and slush as well. I also have a set of wheels with PS4S on them. A 115 mile drive at 78 MPH average with the R3s uses under $3 of electricity in Ohio so savings like this have helped offset the higher cost of the vechicle. I guess if one does not drive over 15,000 miles a year or have dirt cheap electricity you may not see thousands in savings each year like I am. Because of this I may get a performance Y instead of the regular AWD. Of course that would make us a 100% Tesla only household.

The front trunk also seems to be 2 to 3 times larger than the model 3 and I don’t understand how they pulled that off.

Last edited by DDS4; 03-17-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:10 PM   #68
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Frunk isnít a mystery. Bodywork is taller, much more so than ground clearance is increased. Therefore it can be deeper.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:41 AM   #69
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In truth I was hoping for a bit more than a tall M3. Not sure why though.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:17 AM   #70
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I always wanted a sporty Crosstrek.
There is time subaru... let's toss the ascent engine in a crosstrek.

Reality in Maine is that power is approaching 21 cents a KwH later this year (if approved... which is always is), its more efficient to run some gasoline cars than electric cars especially in the winter.. not the case with any fast ICE cars.. but once you factor in the initial price of the car it definitely wins to buy ICE still.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:25 PM   #71
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Model Y appears to be $5k more across the board than the model 3. It will definitely cannibalize model 3 sales, but that's the automotive market right now - honestly if I were buying between the two, I'd pay the 5k bump for extra cargo space & hatch, and the fact that it's not a super jacked up vehicle makes it all the more appealing (I'd probably still want to lower itthough).
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:16 AM   #72
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Hmm, interesting reading the story above regarding where the Y may be built. If it's made in China, you couldn't pay me to buy it. We think qulaity control is an issue now......
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:22 AM   #73
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Hmm, interesting reading the story above regarding where the Y may be built. If it's made in China, you couldn't pay me to buy it. We think qulaity control is an issue now......
China built models will be for the Chinese & Asian market only. Model Y's for the USDM, and Europe, will be built in Nevada at the Gigafactory.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:56 AM   #74
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In truth I was hoping for a bit more than a tall M3. Not sure why though.
Its Model 3, not M3 dammit!!!
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:42 AM   #75
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Its Model 3, not M3 dammit!!!
Thatís too much to type. Iíll just call it the 3 series since now there is more than -
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