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Old 03-17-2019, 11:04 AM   #726
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Keep the hate flowing fellas. Spread it around like herpes so when the time comes I'll be able to snatch up an S209 easily.

I'm excited for this car.
I don't hate the car, at $45-48K I think it makes sense to someone who wants one. At that price I could justify one for myself. Even $50K is probably fair for what it is but, I think, overpriced. But anything over $50K, you have to really question it. And if this really does hot $60K+ after ADM, etc it makes 0 sense. Zero.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:07 AM   #727
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60k would be asinine... I guess it could potentially hit that with dealer mark-up. Really sad IMO if it does.
Exactly. And if the only way someone can afford an S209 is to finance the majority of the purchase price they are an idiot.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:07 AM   #728
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I don't hate the car, at $45-48K I think it makes sense to someone who wants one. At that price I could justify one for myself. Even $50K is probably fair for what it is but, I think, overpriced. But anything over $50K, you have to really question it. And if this really does hot $60K+ after ADM, etc it makes 0 sense. Zero.
We all know it going to be north of $55k. Subaru probably was pleased with how the Type RA sold so we'll be seeing these S209's sitting around. If dealers mark it up like Ford did with the RS we're doomed.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:17 AM   #729
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Just for context within about 50 miles from my house there is a brand new RA listed for $44K and change (dealer has had it listed for over 120 days and knocked the price down $5K). I bet you can negotiate that down to $41-42K.

Two more used ones for sale one with 79 miles at a Porsche dealer for $47k and change (good luck it's been for sale for over 100 days) and another used one with 4500 miles for $40K and change. I bet you can get that knee down to $38K it's been for sale for about a month.

No way an S209 is $15-20K more than an RA.
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:22 PM   #730
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Originally Posted by thill View Post
Just for context within about 50 miles from my house there is a brand new RA listed for $44K and change (dealer has had it listed for over 120 days and knocked the price down $5K). I bet you can negotiate that down to $41-42K.

Two more used ones for sale one with 79 miles at a Porsche dealer for $47k and change (good luck it's been for sale for over 100 days) and another used one with 4500 miles for $40K and change. I bet you can get that knee down to $38K it's been for sale for about a month.

No way an S209 is $15-20K more than an RA.
The S209 isn't really a choice about logic though. Part of the reason the US never received cars like these before or can't keep cars like these (Focus RS) is because of what you're doing right now. Hell, the US can't even get power folding mirrors, rear window wiper for sedans, or headlight washers from nozzles in the front bumper because it hikes the price up and people start saying, "Well, for that price you can just..."

Not that it's all you, but people who try to justify why not to buy the S209 are probably somehow the same people who have raised the average monthly car loan amount to over $500. It's ridiculous. I say just let them build the cars with the same features as everywhere else it's sold and let the market decide whether or not they're gonna buy it. Obviously Subaru feels like they can afford this little social experiment, so more power to them.

Performance cars are an emotional choice anyway. Either a feeling of freedom or an emotional crutch that allows semblance of freedom.

/Justwokeuprant
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:51 PM   #731
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I don't hate the car, at $45-48K I think it makes sense to someone who wants one. At that price I could justify one for myself. Even $50K is probably fair for what it is but, I think, overpriced. But anything over $50K, you have to really question it. And if this really does hot $60K+ after ADM, etc it makes 0 sense. Zero.
By that logic, most MB, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, etc is overpriced for what you actually get (poor performance/dollar, poor reliability with huge deprecation and so on).
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:53 PM   #732
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The S209 isn't really a choice about logic though. Part of the reason the US never received cars like these before or can't keep cars like these (Focus RS) is because of what you're doing right now. Hell, the US can't even get power folding mirrors, rear window wiper for sedans, or headlight washers from nozzles in the front bumper because it hikes the price up and people start saying, "Well, for that price you can just..."

Not that it's all you, but people who try to justify why not to buy the S209 are probably somehow the same people who have raised the average monthly car loan amount to over $500. It's ridiculous. I say just let them build the cars with the same features as everywhere else it's sold and let the market decide whether or not they're gonna buy it. Obviously Subaru feels like they can afford this little social experiment, so more power to them.

Performance cars are an emotional choice anyway. Either a feeling of freedom or an emotional crutch that allows semblance of freedom.

/Justwokeuprant
Exactly!

And for the S209 haters, stop being butt hurt because you are too poor to buy one.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:10 PM   #733
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Well, thill has money if anyone has money. That's my homie. Which is why it's surprising that of almost all people he'd be against the S209 being sold at an illogical price point. That would be like Scrappy being against the S209 for the same reason.

Times are strange.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:26 PM   #734
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By that logic, most MB, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, etc is overpriced for what you actually get (poor performance/dollar, poor reliability with huge deprecation and so on).
I do think the majority of those are overpriced brand new. CPO or used? They make a lot more sense. I looked long and hard at Caymans two years ago. Drove a number of them from brand new to used and came to the conclusion that CPO was the way to go. You get a better than new warranty but are not paying all that initial depreciation.

It's exactly how I bought my C7 Z51. Less than 1 year old and under 3K miles for 30% off MSRP.

It's why I just can't fathom a $55-65K STI from a price to performance perspective, especially with the improvements to the 19 STI and the leftover brand new and barely used Type Ra's out there.

I know I'm getting old because I just find many new car prices to be crazy now. I have a coworker who just bought a new Tahoe and dropped like $70K. And they smoke in their vehicles...
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:28 PM   #735
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Well, thill has money if anyone has money. That's my homie. Which is why it's surprising that of almost all people he'd be against the S209 being sold at an illogical price point. That would be like Scrappy being against the S209 for the same reason.

Times are strange.
Thanks bro your my homie too. I am not in the market but that barely used RA near me for $40K? I would be all over it if I was in the market. I'm pretty sure a $38-39k target price could be achieved.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:34 PM   #736
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I do think the majority of those are overpriced brand new. CPO or used? They make a lot more sense. I looked long and hard at Caymans two years ago. Drove a number of them from brand new to used and came to the conclusion that CPO was the way to go. You get a better than new warranty but are not paying all that initial depreciation.

It's exactly how I bought my C7 Z51. Less than 1 year old and under 3K miles for 30% off MSRP.

It's why I just can't fathom a $55-65K STI from a price to performance perspective, especially with the improvements to the 19 STI and the leftover brand new and barely used Type Ra's out there.

I know I'm getting old because I just find many new car prices to be crazy now. I have a coworker who just bought a new Tahoe and dropped like $70K. And they smoke in their vehicles...
Most if not all luxury brands are overpriced (when new, however true value of the car is clear after it hits the used market). You are paying for blue sky (name).

As for the S209, you are actually getting a ton of goodies which will cost you more to replicate. Also, Subaru knows that it's not for everyone, hence a limited run of 200. For everyone else, the standard STI (which still holds it value very well compared to other performance cars) is just fine.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:34 PM   #737
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The S209 isn't really a choice about logic though. Part of the reason the US never received cars like these before or can't keep cars like these (Focus RS) is because of what you're doing right now. Hell, the US can't even get power folding mirrors, rear window wiper for sedans, or headlight washers from nozzles in the front bumper because it hikes the price up and people start saying, "Well, for that price you can just..."

Not that it's all you, but people who try to justify why not to buy the S209 are probably somehow the same people who have raised the average monthly car loan amount to over $500. It's ridiculous. I say just let them build the cars with the same features as everywhere else it's sold and let the market decide whether or not they're gonna buy it. Obviously Subaru feels like they can afford this little social experiment, so more power to them.

Performance cars are an emotional choice anyway. Either a feeling of freedom or an emotional crutch that allows semblance of freedom.

/Justwokeuprant
I enjoyed this rant because the first part of what you said that I bolded is something that has always bugged me and I have always wanted those features. I agree completely with your point as to why we cant have nice things most of the time. When we finally do get them its either jump on it or be the reason why they stop bringing stuff like the Type RA and S209 to our market.

The second part is exactly why I bought my RA after my test drive. Every sensation I felt behind the wheel of the car and the immediately satisfying joy it brings every time I drive it. The car doesn't even have 5k miles on it yet but that is due to deployments. Believe me I hate not being able to go on a drive for any prolonged period of time. I look forward to cleaning, detailing and driving it at my nearest convenience once I am back home. I am also lucky enough to live within a reasonable distance from Dominion Raceway, VIR and RIR so I may enjoy what the car has to offer for a track day experience.

Now if I knew the S209 was coming before I bought the RA I may have waited but on release the RA was seeing markup of $10k-20k across the country. I picked my car up in May of last year and even then the dealer wouldn't budge below $54k. But hey I really enjoyed the feeling I got from the car and said screw it. Still happy with the decision regardless.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:49 PM   #738
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Part of the reason for the limited run of S209 is because they can only produce so many so frequently. And they had to make one to crash (breaks my heart). If they tried to make 1,000 then they might not have been 2019's, and I don't think Subaru wanted to show their hand too early concerning MY2020 STI. Otherwise they could've just made these 2020s and sold more.

However, limited number and astronomical selling price makes it more special and easier to sell.

Lrn2Corner, good feedback bro. I miss driving something that makes me feel passionate enough to really take care of it. On the other hand it's kind of nice to drive something without much care in the world. A little bit of both is the sweet spot. That's how I was with my BRZ.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:01 PM   #739
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No way an S209 is $15-20K more than an RA.
Type-RA's are made on the factory assembly line.

s209's will be removed from the assembly line, shipped to the STI factory, have the engine and suspension removed, have new engines installed with a multitude of new parts plus all the additional bodywork installed.

There is no way they will be less than $60,000.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:05 PM   #740
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Part of the reason for the limited run of S209 is because they can only produce so many so frequently. And they had to make one to crash (breaks my heart). If they tried to make 1,000 then they might not have been 2019's, and I don't think Subaru wanted to show their hand too early concerning MY2020 STI. Otherwise they could've just made these 2020s and sold more.

However, limited number and astronomical selling price makes it more special and easier to sell.

Lrn2Corner, good feedback bro. I miss driving something that makes me feel passionate enough to really take care of it. On the other hand it's kind of nice to drive something without much care in the world. A little bit of both is the sweet spot. That's how I was with my BRZ.
All previous S20* were limited runs. Subaru knows their market and produces the quantity that the market will bear. Just look at all the broke ass (this includes people that have money but want to bitch) haters already for the S209.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:09 PM   #741
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Yeah but I was thinking especially for the US since they know US customers are fickle AF.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:09 PM   #742
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All previous S20* were limited runs. Subaru knows their market and produces the quantity that the market will bear. Just look at all the broke ass (this includes people that have money but want to bitch) haters already for the S209.
So your going to spend $60-70k+ for an S209 it sounds like. Good for you.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:12 PM   #743
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So your going to spend $60-70k+ for an S209 it sounds like. Good for you.
Yup.

The only thing I don't care for is the dealer mark up. That is something which deserves the hate.

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Old 03-17-2019, 03:15 PM   #744
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Yeah but I was thinking especially for the US since they know US customers are fickle AF.
It not just about being fickle. It's the market for people willing to spend $60K+ on a Subaru. According to Cargurus there still 17 brand new Type RA's sitting on dealer lots. Some of these cars have been sitting for over 200+ days.

I think the people who wanted to spend $45-55K on a Type RA did and there was not 500 of them in the whole US at that price point. It will be interesting if there are 200 people willing to spend $55-65K+ for an S209.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:24 PM   #745
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... and having MY2019 STI using the exact same engine as the Type RA isn't helping...
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:25 PM   #746
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It not just about being fickle. It's the market for people willing to spend $60K+ on a Subaru. According to Cargurus there still 17 brand new Type RA's sitting on dealer lots. Some of these cars have been sitting for over 200+ days.

I think the people who wanted to spend $45-55K on a Type RA did and there was not 500 of them in the whole US at that price point. It will be interesting if there are 200 people willing to spend $55-65K+ for an S209.
But other countries don't have this problem. They spend more on their special edition STI and they sell out before they're even on the lots. Why? That's why I say Americans are fickle.

Japan doesn't even get a manual WRX. The WRX is the CVT daily driver while the STI is the actual performance car. Prior to 2015 I think they only had Impreza and STI. Americans definitely consider overall value more than other places, thus why WRX sell so well. Yet they'll buy a WRX and try to make it an STI. It's truly confusing, yet telling at the same time.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:27 PM   #747
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It not just about being fickle. It's the market for people willing to spend $60K+ on a Subaru. According to Cargurus there still 17 brand new Type RA's sitting on dealer lots. Some of these cars have been sitting for over 200+ days.

I think the people who wanted to spend $45-55K on a Type RA did and there was not 500 of them in the whole US at that price point. It will be interesting if there are 200 people willing to spend $55-65K+ for an S209.
The US market is fickle, do you remember when people were complaining of the price of the R35 GTR when it first came here? They said stuff along the lines of, that price is too expensive for a "Nissan". I rather buy a Corvette, Camera, Mustang, BMW, and etc. People here don't understand or appreciate the cost (development and production) involved in producting a higher end Japanese performance car. It's not just about the engine and raw power, but the complete package.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:59 PM   #748
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It not just about being fickle. It's the market for people willing to spend $60K+ on a Subaru. According to Cargurus there still 17 brand new Type RA's sitting on dealer lots. Some of these cars have been sitting for over 200+ days.

I think the people who wanted to spend $45-55K on a Type RA did and there was not 500 of them in the whole US at that price point. It will be interesting if there are 200 people willing to spend $55-65K+ for an S209.
When I bought my car there were 80 still left on the lots. The way I see it is the 200 will sell faster than the 500 Type RAs did even at $60k+ and most of those will sell to RA owners who are trading up. Then a flood of used RAs will be on the market. The rest will sell to guys who waited patiently for something better than the RA. Remember only the most hardcore Subaru enthusiasts buy these. 200 units is not a lofty goal even if the price is a bit high.

Only 17 left out of the 500 is not bad after a year for a special edition that was already thought of as being too expensive. The improvements and even greater exclusivity of the S209 will probably win out with the enthusiasts that want to own the ultimate STI. For all we know the next gen car could be a total turd in comparison (performance wise) until it gets its very own special edition like a Type RA or S series. Maybe a Spec C or something similar will come state side next gen.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:04 PM   #749
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Maybe our very own USDM 2025 Subaru STI S210 Type RA-R tS spec C?!

Better not be above $100k or I'm out.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:06 PM   #750
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Maybe our very own USDM 2025 Subaru STI S210 Type RA-R tS spec C?!

Better not be above $100k or I'm out.
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