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Old 04-08-2019, 07:24 AM   #26
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Default Audi E-Tron Disappoints On Energy Consumption: Places Last Among EVs

Audi E-Tron Disappoints On Energy Consumption: Places Last Among EVs

https://insideevs.com/audi-e-tron-di...st-among-bevs/

Just 204 miles (328 km) of EPA range
We were waiting for the first series produced all-electric Audi e-tron for quite some time (deliveries in the U.S. from May) and were hoping that such a company will deliver range and performance comparable to Tesla Model X, but after the most recent announcement of EPA test results, one should be disappointed.

The Audi e-tron’s energy consumption of just 74 MPGe (455 Wh/mile or 283 Wh/km) on the combined cycle is the worst result on the market, even behind the Jaguar I-PACE. Will it negatively impact sales? We think so.

Let’s check the energy consumption chart.

All-Electric Car Energy Consumption (EPA)
* The results were converted from EPA’s MPGe (Miles Per Gallon equivalent, assuming 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh) to Wh per mile of EPA range – Combined, City and Highway.
Energy consumption includes charging losses from on-board charger (AC)
Some data estimated. Some versions of models received the same ratings despite being slightly different.

[img]https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.ne...9/04/123-2.png[/img]


BEVs by range
Now range. The EPA rated the Audi e-tron at 204 miles (328 km), which is the lowest 200+ result of any BEV. It’s not something to be proud of, as we expected at least 225-250 miles.

Part of the reason behind the relatively low range is that only 88% (83.6 kWh) of the full battery capacity (95 kWh) is available for use. Combined with high energy consumption, range is much lower than expected

For comparison, the WLTP rating is up to 417 km (259.1 miles).

A big positive is that the Audi can be recharged quickly at 150 kW DC, but it’s rather a consolation and not a win.



BEVs price (MSRP + DST) per mile of EPA range comparison



Audi e-tron specs:

0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds or 0-100 km/h in 5.7 seconds
Top speed – 124 mph
204 miles (328 km) according to EPA
up to 417 km (259.1 miles) under the WLTP test cycle
95 kWh battery / 83.6 kWh usable (36 cell modules, each module is equipped with 12 pouch cells, nominal voltage of 396 volts)
battery pack weight: 700 kilograms (1543.2 lb)
dual-motor all-wheel drive – up to 300 kW and 664 Nm in S mode (boost) or up to 265 kW and 561 Nm in D mode. Front motor is 135 kW, the rear is 165 kW (S mode).
Maximum tow rating – 1,800 kg (4,000 pounds) when properly equipped
9.6 kW on-board charger (240 V, 40 A) in the U.S. and 11 kW or 22 kW three-phase in Europe
DC fast charging up to 150 kW: 0-80% in 30 minutes (10 minutes adds up to 54 miles, 30 minutes adds up to 163 miles)
Press blast:

2019 Audi e-tron arrives next month: Fully electric SUV built for everyday use is designed for customers to go electric today
e-tron deliveries to begin in May to reservation holders, in line with demonstration vehicles arriving at dealerships
Fully electric e-tron is the right size, in the right segment, with the right tech and right ecosystem to go electric today
Audi e-tron battery engineered for repeatable performance, longevity and peak charging power – to deliver EPA-estimated 204 mile range – supported by fastest charging in its class
HERNDON, Va., April 4, 2019 – The 2019 Audi e-tron – the first fully electric model from the brand – arrives next month. A true mid-size luxury SUV, the e-tron – with an EPA-estimated range of 204 miles – is built for everyday use. The e-tron will be available for demonstrations at Audi dealerships, and customers who reserved the e-tron will soon experience fully electric driving without compromise.

The right size: comfortable seating for five adults and luggage

With two rows and a panoramic sunroof, the Audi e-tron is a true mid-sized SUV with comfortable seating for five adults and luggage.
The Audi e-tron is the largest model in the mid-size luxury electric SUV segment, delivering 57 cubic feet of cargo space with rear seats folded down; an additional front trunk houses the standard equipped Level 2 charging system.
Similar in size to the Audi Q8, the e-tron has a wheelbase of 115.1 inches and height of 65.5 inches.
For true SUV functionality, the e-tron tows up to 4,000 pounds when equipped with an available towing package, and features standard air suspension and roof rails.
The right segment: fully electric mid-size luxury SUV delivers premium features and everyday usability

The Audi e-tron is a true mid-size SUV – the largest segment in the luxury SUV market – and provides the fit and finish that luxury buyers expect.
Definitively Audi and uniquely e-tron, the model features standard heated/cooled seats, top view camera, distinctive badging and all-new ergonomically designed shifter, in addition to available massaging seats, night vision assistant and a full suite of standard and available driver assistance systems.
New standard-equipped electric quattro® all-wheel drive helps provide exceptional control and confidence in a variety of driving conditions. With an electric motor placed on both e-tron axles, power is efficiently distributed to provide nearly instantaneous torque and powerful electric performance.
The right technology: revolutionary electric engineering without compromise

With buyers of premium vehicles driving an average of about 30 miles per day1, the Audi e-tron – with an EPA-estimated range of 204 – is designed for daily usability.
The e-tron can charge at a class-leading 150 kilowatts at high speed public chargers – resulting in the fastest charging speed of any electric SUV. Charging at this speed translates to:
Approximate charge time
(charging at 150 kW public chargers)

Estimated range
(actual range will vary)

10 minutes 54 miles
30 minutes 163 miles


Powering the e-tron is a precisely developed battery. Positioned low in the vehicle within a protective honeycomb structure, the e-tron battery is engineered to utilize 88 percent, or 83.6 kWh, of the 95 kWh total battery capacity. This engineering approach ensures battery longevity, repeatable performance and peak charging power for longer amounts of time during the charge cycle.
A revolutionary cooling system separates the battery modules from cooling fluid to maintain optimal efficiency and enhance performance for the long-term.
The e-tron achieves 355 horsepower, and with Boost Mode engaged – unlocking the full power output of the vehicle – achieves an increased 402 horsepower, reaching 0-60 in 5.5 seconds.
Unique to the e-tron, the MMI touch response® system features a detailed map displaying where drivers can travel on the vehicle’s current charge; and, for longer trips, the MMI system suggests charging stations along the route, noting the anticipated charge level upon arrival, resulting in increased range tranquility.
Drivers can select the e-tron-specific virtual cockpit display, providing detailed charging, battery, route and infotainment information in the driver’s line of sight directly behind the steering wheel.
Amazon Alexa is fully integrated into the e-tron, and, when combined with an active Audi connect PRIME subscription, enables virtually seamless access to news, information, music, audiobooks and control of Alexa-enabled devices directly from the e-tron steering wheel.
The e-tron enables pioneering vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I) technology including Traffic Light Information (TLI) and Green Light Optimized Speed Advisory (GLOSA) where available, and is the first Audi model to feature standard Toll Module Integration, eliminating the need for state-specifics transponders.
The right ecosystem: with an EPA-estimated range of 204 miles and robust network of support, the e-tron makes going electric easy

A key benefit of electric vehicle ownership is the ability to wake up each day with a freshly charged vehicle. Understanding that more than 80 percent of charging takes place at home2, Audi and Amazon Home Services collaborated to provide in-home installation of a Level 2 charging system, comprised of a 240 volt, NEMA 14-50 outlet, enabling the e-tron to be completely charged in approximately nine hours.
98 percent of all single-trip journey trips in the U.S. are under 50 miles3, meaning the Audi e-tron – with an EPA-certified range of 204 miles – is more than capable of everyday use. For the anticipated two percent of trips over 50 miles, e-tron drivers are supported by Electrify America’s nationwide charging network.
By the end of 2019, the Electrify America network is expected to deploy nearly 2,000 chargers across 500 fast-charging sites throughout 42 states and within 17 metropolitan areas. Offering advanced charging, Electrify America’s chargers can deliver up to 350 kW to capable vehicles.
Audi e-tron owners receive 1,000 kWh of charging – the equivalent of approximately 2,000 miles of range – from Audi at no additional cost for use at Electrify America fast-charging stations within the first four years of ownership.
A complimentary suite of e-tron support services ensures confidence in going electric – including dedicated Audi electric vehicle customer service, robust roadside assistance and the all-new myAudi app for vehicle and charging station information.
Key specifications and pricing

Horsepower 355 (402 with Boost Mode)
0-60 (seconds) 5.5 (with Boost Mode)
Battery 95 kWh
EPA-estimated range (miles) 204 (EPA-estimated)
MPGe (city/highway/combined) 74/73/74 MPGe (EPA-estimated)
Starting MSRP $74,800
Audi e-tron federal tax credit
(see energy.gov for eligibility details)
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:57 AM   #27
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Going to be hard to cheat those miles per charge.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:30 AM   #28
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I just came here to say this:

Lets hear it for KIA!
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:00 PM   #29
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I just came here to say this:

Lets hear it for KIA!
Kia? Why? I'd pick the Hyundai Kona based on those numbers above...

--kC
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:39 PM   #30
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Kia? Why? I'd pick the Hyundai Kona based on those numbers above...

--kC
Comparing tiny FWD hatchbacks with AWD Model 3s and Audi's inefficient CUV-brick is not fair.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:50 PM   #31
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disagree shik,

EV are commuters and runabouts. Nobody who is serious about track days or canyon carving will be taking an EV. These are city cars at heart. The hatch back EV does the same thing as the model 3. It gets you to work and back. So it is very much competing for the same piece of the pie.



not talking about fair or not fair, but kia and hyundia are offering commuters with decent range at a good price. Nobody else has managed to do that yet.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:01 PM   #32
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Whether or not E Nick likes the platform, my Model 3 is not in the same category as a Niro. AWD, 4.5 sec to 60, Supercharger network, an interior that I actually like, promised Full Self Driving (we'll see about this).

If all you want is a commuter box, sure, the Niro or the Ioniq or the Bolt or the LEAF E+ will do you fine.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:53 PM   #33
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disagree shik,

EV are commuters and runabouts. Nobody who is serious about track days or canyon carving will be taking an EV. These are city cars at heart. The hatch back EV does the same thing as the model 3. It gets you to work and back. So it is very much competing for the same piece of the pie.



not talking about fair or not fair, but kia and hyundia are offering commuters with decent range at a good price. Nobody else has managed to do that yet.
This sounds like the old days when people argued about 4 cylinders.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Whether or not E Nick likes the platform, my Model 3 is not in the same category as a Niro. AWD, 4.5 sec to 60, Supercharger network, an interior that I actually like, promised Full Self Driving (we'll see about this).

If all you want is a commuter box, sure, the Niro or the Ioniq or the Bolt or the LEAF E+ will do you fine.
you lost me at you liked the interior... but to each his own
I am happy you like your car. At the end of the day that is what really matters.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:56 PM   #35
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you lost me at you liked the interior... but to each his own
I am happy you like your car. At the end of the day that is what really matters.
I thought I wouldn't like it. Hell, I canceled my initial reservation for it largely over this (and also because I thought it'd cause me to bike commute less, which has proven to be the case).

But I really like it now. The only thing I'd change is being able to pre-set what speed the cruise will jump to before turning it on, but that can be worked around.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:10 AM   #36
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Cross posting from OT thread.

Saw and rode in my first E Tron yesterday. Dude parked next to me at the gym and we started talking about my M2 and his E tron. Before I get to far, let me state ice drive. A P100d, Model 3, Bolt and the Jag I Pace. The P100D is a different world in terms of flat out acceleration in lunatic mode or whatever it’s called. I’ve never experienced anything like it, it was surreal. That said, even if I could afford it, it was missing things that I wanted in a car. The Model 3 dual motor extended range is also damn quick, probably too quick for 99% of normal drivers. It was fun to punch it but again it lacked a lot of what I would want in a car. I’m also not a fan of the looks (subjective) and the interior to me is completely boring. The bolt was neat but nothing special, the I Pace looks cool to me but man, you can tell a Chinese company owns the brand. The ride sucks, interior feels cheap and rather loud road noise. So far, not an EV I’ve driven that I would buy.

Now for the E Tron. Instantly I could tell it was an E Tron. The exterior is damn sexy and makes the Q5/7 look rather bland and boring. I think they really nailed the exterior. For the interior side, it’s whats to be expected of Audi. Overall pretty nice but nothing super fancy but it was definitely nice and the materials were damn nice. While I didn’t get to drive it, he did take me for a 5 minute spin. The ride quality is pretty damn amazing and feels very European / Audi. Road noise is pretty minimal and the ride is very comfortable. He did give it a solid WOT pull getting on to the freeway and it’s definitely no slouch. It’s nothing crazy or close to Model 3 dual motor with the bigger battery or remotely close to an S (obviously) but it’s more than fast enough considering it’s a large vehicle suv/cuv.

Overall, to me, the E Tron is amazing and it’s the first EV I would purchase today if my job and financials allowed for it. Sure, the range is significantly less than a Tesla with large battery but the 2xx range would be more than enough for daily use considering most people drive less than 100 miles a day. I really liked the vehicle, like a lot. I think they nailed it overall especially considering it’s a first gen Ev for them. There really wasn’t anything I was left wanting given especially when considering it’s a SUV/CUV and I couldn’t care less if it’s slower than a X.

I’m not really an Audi fan but man, I got to tell you, this vehicle is ****ing awesome.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:01 AM   #37
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I think Audi gets it. The Teslas are all about being different from everything else out there. Audi makes the E-Tron like it's just another vehicle in their lineup, which happens to be electric.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:04 AM   #38
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Audi makes the E-Tron like it's just another vehicle in their lineup, which happens to be electric.
We've been down that road before, where the OEMs made hybrid versions of their normal vehicles, and nobody bought them. Only the Prius was actually selling.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:47 PM   #39
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We've been down that road before, where the OEMs made hybrid versions of their normal vehicles, and nobody bought them. Only the Prius was actually selling.
But fully electric is different.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:54 PM   #40
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We've been down that road before, where the OEMs made hybrid versions of their normal vehicles, and nobody bought them. Only the Prius was actually selling.
Well, that would be because the hybrid version offered nothing in terms of overall cost savings of the car. It had nothing to do with it being hybrid themselves. For the most part, they hybrid version factored out to be significantly more expensive and the gas cost savings didn’t pencil out.


Let’s try to be somewhat honest and not completely biased and daft, shall we?
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:41 PM   #41
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I think Audi gets it. The Teslas are all about being different from everything else out there. Audi makes the E-Tron like it's just another vehicle in their lineup, which happens to be electric.
I agree; electric powertrain, but fairly standard human interaction points instead of trying to 'touchscreen all the things' like Tesla, much easier for the general public to shift over to an EV drivetrain that way; familiarity is a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
We've been down that road before, where the OEMs made hybrid versions of their normal vehicles, and nobody bought them. Only the Prius was actually selling.
hybrid is a totally different beast; firstly most of the time it's adjusting a platform to accept the electrical components, not a brand new platform from the ground up, secondly, they were heavier, slower, more expensive, and you still had the maintenance of an ICE vehicle. I flat out disagree with you here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
But fully electric is different.
yes, fresh/devoted platform, no ICE stuff at all (engine, trans and related)

Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Well, that would be because the hybrid version offered nothing in terms of overall cost savings of the car. It had nothing to do with it being hybrid themselves. For the most part, they hybrid version factored out to be significantly more expensive and the gas cost savings didn’t pencil out.

Let’s try to be somewhat honest and not completely biased and daft, shall we?
Seconded.

The thing I like about Tesla is the powertrain: RWD or AWD, instant torque, lack of ICE maintenance/reliability and ICE power delivery (for a commuter/daily; track car or weekend toy is a different beast entirely).

The thing I don't like about Tesla, specifically the model 3, (aside form software locks on everything) is the lack of physical controls: the center tablet is how you operate all core functions, and see the bulk of your vehicle information. I also don't like how it's a app on your cellphone to operate the vehicle primarily, or the business card as a secondary; give me the "fob" they have for the other models; as shocking as it may sound, I don't have my cell phone with me at all times, and to take out my wallet, slide a card out, slide it across the B-pillar, put it back in my wallet, put my wallet back in my pocket, then get in the car feels like a huge step back from a proximity sensor fob or a fob with buttons I can press inside my pocket.

Admittedly the S & X aren't on my radar; once the 50k barrier is cracked I typically will pass on dumping money into a depreciating asset that will at most give me ten years of driving; special interest vehicles are different, I'm talking daily grind vehicles here. Clearly the E-tron isn't on my radar, but the fact that it's got the "whiz-bang" Electric powertrain with more contemporary controls is a smart move in my opinion.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:21 PM   #42
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The thing I don't like about Tesla, specifically the model 3, (aside form software locks on everything) is the lack of physical controls: the center tablet is how you operate all core functions, and see the bulk of your vehicle information.
After driving a friend's Model 3, I really wish they offered a HUD option. It would take me a while to get used to looking down to the right to see fairly important information.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:05 PM   #43
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After driving a friend's Model 3, I really wish they offered a HUD option. It would take me a while to get used to looking down to the right to see fairly important information.
I agree. I also drove an employee's model 3 and didn't like that aspect.

To be honest, overall I just wasn't excited about the car at all. The build quality is pretty meh and, at the expense of sounding cliche, it really felt to me like I was driving an appliance.

If all I wanted was a commuter car, I think it would be great, but not a fun car to drive.
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