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Old 09-05-2018, 02:31 PM   #151
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I see it too.
hey, it's clearly different, it's got like, different headlights and different taillights, and besides, the badge is shaped like a bowtie not a prancing horse, and it's hollow, so like, more airflow for cooling or something....

seriously though, it's the corolla affect; cars in a certain segment and price bracket end up looking similar; it's almost unavoidable, at least from a financial standpoint.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:38 PM   #152
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hey, it's clearly different, it's got like, different headlights and different taillights, and besides, the badge is shaped like a bowtie not a prancing horse, and it's hollow, so like, more airflow for cooling or something....

seriously though, it's the corolla affect; cars in a certain segment and price bracket end up looking similar; it's almost unavoidable, at least from a financial standpoint.
At this point, I kind of hope it does not have a bowtie on it (actually, do any Vettes have a bowtie?)
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:39 PM   #153
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Stingrays and Flags..

But GM has already trademarked a new ZORA brand logo.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/...corvette-name/
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:31 PM   #154
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Those proportions seem off. Like a front engine cockpit on a rear engine car.
It might be the angle of the picture if you watch the video a few posts above the proportions seem fine to me. The Corvette has never been a small car.

I see this thing costing some serious $$ though and limited production. I am guessing more than the current ZR1 but hopefully not Ford GT MSRP.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:49 PM   #155
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I see this thing costing some serious $$ though and limited production.
I thought the whole point was the Corvette officially shifting to a mid-engine car. Permanently.

I've heard the C7 will still be sold along side it for a few years, but after that it sounds like it'll be strictly mid-engine.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:32 PM   #156
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I thought the whole point was the Corvette officially shifting to a mid-engine car. Permanently.

I've heard the C7 will still be sold along side it for a few years, but after that it sounds like it'll be strictly mid-engine.
As I understand it, this will either be a separate vehicle all together, or Zora will be a new GM line with more than one model.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:07 PM   #157
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The Corvette has never been a small car.

True

However, I do remember GM mentioning that the C6 Vette's overall length is shorter than a 911.

*googling specs*

yep, about even, to an inch shorter, depending on trim levels.


So, while the Vette has never been small, it has shrunk over the decades, while the Porsche family became bloated.

Last edited by Skylab; 09-05-2018 at 05:11 PM. Reason: internets
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:11 AM   #158
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Default Chevrolet Corvette C8 Is so Powerful It Keeps Bending Its Frame, Shattering Glass: Re

Chevrolet Corvette C8 Is so Powerful It Keeps Bending Its Frame, Shattering Glass: Report
James Gilboy
These are just some of the reasons that the mid-engined Corvette's reveal has been postponed.


Lanky Turtle - Youtube
Several alleged reveal dates for the eighth-generation "C8" Chevrolet Corvette have come and gone, and a new report claims that this has been due to design problems delaying the new model's launch. These complications have apparently been so major, in fact, they're causing damage to the car's frame and glass engine cover due to too much power for the chassis.

Rumors claimed that the C8 was scheduled for launch at Detroit's North American International Auto Show in January, then the Geneva Motor Show in March, both of which have come to pass without a new Corvette. Citing "well-placed sources," Hagerty alleges that General Motors missed these deadlines due to shortcomings with a new standardized, global GM electrical system, one in which engineers are reportedly still refining. This system is said to incorporate more than 100 interlinked computers on its Computer Area Network (CAN) bus. Hagerty's report corroborates rumors from December that alleged the C8 would be delayed six months due to electrical gremlins.

Problems are allegedly not limited to those digital, but also those mechanical. Prototypes fitted with twin-turbo V-8s producing between 900 and 1,000 horsepower have reportedly suffered from structural distortion so severe that the engine compartment's glass hatch was breaking. These are in line with previous rumors which claimed that the C8 will use a twin-turbo V-8 to achieve hypercar-like performance, with acceleration so "frightening" that GM has supposedly consulted with lawyers about the potential risk of selling something so fast.

One last nondescript problem remained, described only as a butting of heads between the design and engineering teams, though details were unspecified. With multiple sources now reporting similar reasons for why we have yet to see the C8 Corvette, the other claims made in each of these rumors are looking more credible, especially the one that outlined the Corvette becoming a standalone brand, similar to how Volkswagen spun off the Jetta name into its own brand in China. Maybe GM thinks the same strategy will work on sports car-buying Americans.

https://drudgereport.com/
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:12 AM   #159
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Bending frames and shattering glass are not a sign of how powerful the engine is, but rather how piss poor the car is engineered. Does it come with a fire extinguisher?

100 internlinked computers! LOLOL.... yeah, this will last. What could possibly go wrong!




Disclaimer: I know that most cars have dozens of computers linked, but this is GM we are talking about.

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Old 03-14-2019, 11:04 AM   #160
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Bending frames and shattering glass are not a sign of how powerful the engine is, but rather how piss poor the car is engineered. Does it come with a fire extinguisher?

100 internlinked computers! LOLOL.... yeah, this will last. What could possibly go wrong!




Disclaimer: I know that most cars have dozens of computers linked, but this is GM we are talking about.
Sounds like GM needs your expert knowledge on finite element analysis. You could probably make a lot of money contracting yourself out to every OEM. Every single one of them would pay a lot of money for a method to 100% accurately predict loading conditions on a product which has zero reference in their existing vehicle lineup. You would save them millions of dollars and likely shave months off the development process.

I'm sure Calsonic, Denso, Delphi, Continental, ZF, and Bosch would welcome your input on ECU design and software development too.


This isn't piss poor engineering. It's just engineering. They tested with that Holden Ute and gathered data. They estimated and predicted loading conditions and proceeded with chassis design. Now that they have real cars with real powertrains they can gather more data, refine the analyses, and improve the chassis where required. The fact that this is a rumor and that the car isn't yet on dealership lots means it's actually "good" engineering. If there is a chassis issue related to some monster engine it's likely a late find because that's not the first or second or third vehicle variant they built and began testing. It's a later release with a very low build quantity. What it does to the chassis is likely irrelevant for the base model that likely only has 500hp.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:07 AM   #161
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I for one can't wait to see all the disappointment of those selling their C6's and C7's to be the first in line for this thing. It is going to have some growing pains for a model year or three.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:09 PM   #162
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Sounds like GM needs your expert knowledge on finite element analysis. You could probably make a lot of money contracting yourself out to every OEM. Every single one of them would pay a lot of money for a method to 100% accurately predict loading conditions on a product which has zero reference in their existing vehicle lineup. You would save them millions of dollars and likely shave months off the development process.

I'm sure Calsonic, Denso, Delphi, Continental, ZF, and Bosch would welcome your input on ECU design and software development too.


This isn't piss poor engineering. It's just engineering. They tested with that Holden Ute and gathered data. They estimated and predicted loading conditions and proceeded with chassis design. Now that they have real cars with real powertrains they can gather more data, refine the analyses, and improve the chassis where required. The fact that this is a rumor and that the car isn't yet on dealership lots means it's actually "good" engineering. If there is a chassis issue related to some monster engine it's likely a late find because that's not the first or second or third vehicle variant they built and began testing. It's a later release with a very low build quantity. What it does to the chassis is likely irrelevant for the base model that likely only has 500hp.
When past iterations of cars that have been essentially the same for 20 years have caught fire routinely and overheated time again, GM is not known for quality. They never have been. Having a chassis tweak to the point of breaking glass means it exceeded yield of the material (permanent set may or may not have occured) which should not happen on any system designed properly. My experience is building human rated spaceflight hardware where you MUST get it right on day one. You only have the luxury of building a handful of units ever. We have think of every possible issue.

I don't do coding. I am a mechanical engineer so I will stick to that.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:31 PM   #163
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Default Tuners may have a big problem with Chevy’s mid-engine Corvette, report says

Tuners may have a big problem with Chevy’s mid-engine Corvette, report says

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/m...u-report-says/

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The next-generation Corvette will be the first to place its engine behind the driver, and that engine will be controlled by a “unique encrypted ECU system,” according to Muscle Cars & Trucks (via Motor Authority). The encryption will prevent changes to the ECU software in pursuit of more horsepower, according to the report.

Computer controls are a vital aspect of modern cars, so tuners often begin playing with software before they fiddle with boost pressure or camshafts. But that may be more difficult with the mid-engine Corvette. The sports car will likely be one of many upcoming cars to use General Motors’ new electrical architecture. GM has said cybersecurity was a major priority in the development of that architecture, and the automaker’s cybersecurity measures may be a barrier to aftermarket tuners, according to the report.

Any unsuccessful attempt to reprogram the ECU will reportedly trigger a “recovery mode,” requiring the entire system to be rebooted. The report indicated this may not be something the average person can do, leading to a “bricked” Corvette.

The increasing complexity of modern cars has posed a challenge to tuners, but where there’s a will, there’s a way. When it launched in 2008, the Nissan GT-R was thought to be too complicated for tuners to handle, but over the past decade it’s become a darling of the aftermarket. Given time, it’s possible that tuners will find a way to crack even an encrypted ECU. Chevy hasn’t made any official statements on the matter, but it wouldn’t be surprising for the automaker to cooperate with the aftermarket, which has become an important tool for promoting new cars.

Exactly what engine will be controlled by the allegedly encrypted ECU has been the subject of much speculation. Some reports have indicated the new Corvette will use an evolution of the current car’s 6.2-liter pushrod V8, but Muscle Cars & Trucks claims it will get a dual-overhead cam V8 code-named LT2. Previous reports also claimed a midrange Corvette model would get a Cadillac-derived 4.2-liter twin-turbocharged V8, while the range-topping Corvette would get a 5.5-liter twin-turbo V8 making a monstrous 850 horsepower — almost 100 hp more than the current flagship Corvette ZR1. We’ll find out when the mid-engine Corvette finally makes its public debut July 18.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:37 PM   #164
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DOHC in a Corvette? What is this sorcery?

(Yes, I'm aware the C4 ZR1 was DOHC as well...)
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:17 AM   #165
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I think there may be a problem in the courts in this one. When you buy a product in the US, you can do whatever the heck you want to it, because it's yours. Granted, you immediately void any warranty and expectation of recovery should something go wrong, if anything does, but the law in this is on the consumers side, and has been tested time and time and time again.

Tread lightly Chevy/GM. The buyers are not subscribers to a service or software package. They are acquiring complete ownership of all the delivered parts.

--kC
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:34 AM   #166
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I think there may be a problem in the courts in this one. When you buy a product in the US, you can do whatever the heck you want to it, because it's yours. Granted, you immediately void any warranty and expectation of recovery should something go wrong, if anything does, but the law in this is on the consumers side, and has been tested time and time and time again.

Tread lightly Chevy/GM. The buyers are not subscribers to a service or software package. They are acquiring complete ownership of all the delivered parts.

--kC
It's cyber security protection. Every ECU in the car requires an unlock command and then a security key for access. With vehicles becoming more "connected" via wifi and satellite this is how the automotive industry is attempting to block hackers who may try to commandeer vehicles. It's not about preventing people from modifying the cars. GM won't have to argue about ownership of the parts and pieces. It's data security and passenger safety.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:40 AM   #167
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It's cyber security protection. Every ECU in the car requires an unlock command and then a security key for access. With vehicles becoming more "connected" via wifi and satellite this is how the automotive industry is attempting to block hackers who may try to commandeer vehicles. It's not about preventing people from modifying the cars. GM won't have to argue about ownership of the parts and pieces. It's data security and passenger safety.
Jeez, what would you know about these things!!


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Old 05-31-2019, 09:53 AM   #168
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When past iterations of cars that have been essentially the same for 20 years have caught fire routinely and overheated time again, GM is not known for quality. They never have been. Having a chassis tweak to the point of breaking glass means it exceeded yield of the material (permanent set may or may not have occured) which should not happen on any system designed properly. My experience is building human rated spaceflight hardware where you MUST get it right on day one. You only have the luxury of building a handful of units ever. We have think of every possible issue.

I don't do coding. I am a mechanical engineer so I will stick to that.


This is waaaaay beyond me; so, understand this is curiosity question. Not an argument......

In that field, aren't things "over" engineered for that very reason? And I am sure cost is a thing in spaceflight; but, I'm thinking not as much as developing a car for the "masses" and to be "affordable". Surely they could "over" engineer this thing and make it cost 7 figures........
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:54 AM   #169
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This is waaaaay beyond me; so, understand this is curiosity question. Not an argument......

In that field, aren't things "over" engineered for that very reason? And I am sure cost is a thing in spaceflight; but, I'm thinking not as much as developing a car for the "masses" and to be "affordable". Surely they could "over" engineer this thing and make it cost 7 figures........
actually just the opposite. Everysingle piece is as light and fragile as we can make it and still meet requirements. When you think of over engineered, think oilfield or farm and land moving equipment. They need to be able to handle the dumbest operator doing the dumbest things.

We do have the luxury of controlling almost every aspect of space flight and the crew is left to do as little as possible. We build things with as narrow margins as we can and still have a them pass tough acceptance tests, but we need everything to be small, light, and reliable. Making 2 of the three things happen is cheap. Obtaining all three is mega bucks.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:04 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Tuners may have a big problem with Chevy’s mid-engine Corvette, report says

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/m...u-report-says/
I own a 1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD wagon. The idle speed mixture on the carburetor (remember those!?) was tuned at the factory and then, to prevent tampering, was blocked from further adjustment by the installation of a brass plug. People have been drilling out those brass plugs ever since.

Point is, this is not a new thing. Partly it's a CYA by the manufacturer to prevent end-users from doing dumb things, while also preventing competitors from reverse engineering the product.

I can imagine the aftermarket developing plug'n'play replacement ECUs for the next Corvette.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:17 PM   #171
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I can imagine the aftermarket developing plug'n'play replacement ECUs for the next Corvette.
No. Vehicle data communication is way too complicated for anyone to fully reverse engineer it. If they can't get all of the messages and signals exactly correct they are going to create other faults in the car.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:28 PM   #172
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No. Vehicle data communication is way too complicated for anyone to fully reverse engineer it. If they can't get all of the messages and signals exactly correct they are going to create other faults in the car.
We just upgraded the electrical system on our products at work, they're now equivalent to current consumer automotive offerings. If someone gets the secret handshake from the factory and knows what signals to send and when, it's not that bad. A bunch of work, to be sure, but nothing that the aftermarket can't already do.

But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread domestic OEMs seem pretty aftermarket friendly, Ford in particular, but I can see a work around for this "issue." OEMs and aftermarket have been leapfrogging one another for decades.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:47 PM   #173
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No. Vehicle data communication is way too complicated for anyone to fully reverse engineer it. If they can't get all of the messages and signals exactly correct they are going to create other faults in the car.
As smart as the folks who developed the software are, there is always someone smarter. They will be "reverse engineered" no doubt about it.

Hell, modern German cars are still able to use piggybacks to hijack ecu signals and increase power, all while keeping OEM knock protection in place...
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:33 PM   #174
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Didn't Nissan say the same about the GTR when it came out? No one will be able to hack this! 6 months later, Cobb was providing tunes. Sure, it's no longer in the court of the average software tinkerer, but a team of dedicated SW engineers could certainly decode it. It just costs more now.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:54 PM   #175
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This could be a good marketing angle for other companies: "Our ECUs aren't encrypted, so you can tune away!"
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