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Old 06-12-2019, 06:47 AM   #26
AVANTI R5
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A lot of people think the gas they buy is made,shipped, delivered from that name on the sign. Not really. Yeah the Top Tier is Top Tier ( If you own Audi or VW buy what’s on that card n the glove box save for proof too, I put all my gas on discover card so I have every drop accounted 4 so they can’t screw you over not honoring warranty when your top end is tar). Anyway the driver jumps out throws some crap in the tank of tanker.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...gasoline_where

From refinery to consumer
U.S. petroleum refineries make gasoline and other petroleum products from crude oil and other liquids produced in the United States or imported from other countries. Nearly all of the gasoline sold in the United States is produced in the United States.

Most gasoline moves from refineries through pipelines to large storage terminals near consuming areas. From the storage terminals, gasoline is usually sent by truck to smaller blending terminals for processing into finished motor gasoline, which is then delivered by truck to gasoline fueling stations.
Gasoline is sent through shared pipelines where commingling occurs
Gasoline and other petroleum products are sent through shared pipelines in batches. These batches are not physically separated in pipelines, and some mixing, or commingling, of products occurs. Because this mixing occurs, the gasoline and other products must be tested as they leave pipelines to see if they still meet required specifications. If the products fail to meet local, state, or federal specifications, they are sent back to a refinery for additional processing.

A graphic illustration showing the flow of imported crude oil from the tanker to the gas station.
Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration (public domain)

Click to enlarge »
Can customers find out which country or state the gasoline at a location station comes from?
The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) cannot identify the specific origin of gasoline sold at fueling stations. The gasoline a company sells in its branded fueling stations is not necessarily produced by that company.

Gasoline brands get mixed during shipment
Gasoline is sold at more than 100,000 retail outlets across the nation, and many are unbranded dealers that may sell gasoline produced by different companies. Branded stations may not necessarily sell gasoline produced by the companies that own the stations. Gasoline from different refineries is often combined for shipment through pipelines, and different companies that own service stations in the same area may purchase gasoline at the same bulk storage and distribution terminal.

The only difference between gasoline at one company's fueling stations and gasoline sold by another company is the small amount of additives that some companies blend into the gasoline after it leaves the pipeline and before it gets to their fueling stations.

Crude oil also gets mixed at the refinery
Even if EIA could determine the origin of the gasoline sold at fueling stations, the source of the crude oil and other liquids used at refineries may vary. Most refiners use a mix of crude oils from various domestic and foreign sources. The mix of crude oils can change based on the relative cost and availability o
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:57 AM   #27
fredzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
E10 can still eat away at certain things, especially on older cars.
Everything I own that uses a carburetor has experienced problems at some point in the last 10 years, and only recently did I learn that it was the E10 causing problems. The deformed diaphragms etc. weren't normal wear and tear.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:49 AM   #28
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Top Tier has nothing to do with E10/E15. Top Tier can still have blends up to 10% ethanol depending on region and provider.
E10 can still eat away at certain things, especially on older cars.
Really? We all know this man, you aren't telling anyone anything. E15, they have to display it at the pump, make the consumer aware, etc. My point that you missed is that Costco doesn't serve this garbage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Avoid Costco gas. They were the most inconsistent gas on the dyno I saw while working with Snail.

Chevron is by far the worst though, that Techryon junk causes issues at the top end on pretty much everything. Good way to lean out a motor quick right when it shouldn't be...
Sorry I don't agree with you. Maybe you have an issue with your local Costco. One location doesn't = all.

I've put every turbocharged car I've owned on the dyno, all with Costco fuel in the tank (93 octane). My sport bikes as well, all tuned on their fuel. No issue in 15 years using their tier 1 fuel. Several dyno sessions I was asked what kind of fuel I use (from where) because my vehicles were all on the high end of HP/TQ and multiple times of "solid fuel" being reiterated. I notice subpar fuel on my bikes easily as an ex AMA tuner tuned them all. I have figured out over 20 years which fueling stations to avoid out in the country where I ride/drive my local twisties. I can tell going through the rev range to redline as the bikes have twice the redlines + as my cars.

All anyone can do is lookup the Tier 1 fueling stations close to their home or where they routinely fuel up.
https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/
The good ole Italian tune up should tell you something about the fuel quality, or throw it on the dyno. I do both. I think you are spreading misinformation.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
The only difference between gasoline at one company's fueling stations and gasoline sold by another company is the small amount of additives that some companies blend into the gasoline after it leaves the pipeline and before it gets to their fueling stations.
this is mostly the truth. There are some exceptions, but for most mainstream automotive gas stations, this is the reality.

Personally, I won't touch Costco gas mostly because of that ****ing line, and the fact that none of them are convenient to me. I sat in a buddies car one day who only fuels up there... we sat there for 25 minutes waiting for gas. No thank you. The extra few bucks is worth my time. They say money cannot buy time, but in this case, it can.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
Everything I own that uses a carburetor has experienced problems at some point in the last 10 years, and only recently did I learn that it was the E10 causing problems. The deformed diaphragms etc. weren't normal wear and tear.
I've had problems with classic cars and lawn mowers where I've had to rebuild carbs and replace fuel pumps and fuel hoses due to ethanol eating away at the older rubber. While newer fuel hoses clearly state they are able to handle ethanol blends, it's difficult to confirm with rebuild kits and fuel pumps. Around me, I can't get ethanol free premium grade fuel, only mid-grade but the car runs like crap, even when adjusting the timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Really? We all know this man, you aren't telling anyone anything. E15, they have to display it at the pump, make the consumer aware, etc. My point that you missed is that Costco doesn't serve this garbage.
Chill out. I missed nothing and understood what you were trying to say but your random comment about "Tier 1" fuel makes it sound like you are comparing two unrelated things. There are Top Tier Fuel suppliers that sell E15 too (Conoco, Shell, Velero) and there are probably more that sell or will sell E15.

Yes, I agree clear labels should be used but I don't see it happening beyond what we see for up to 10% ethanol blends now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
All anyone can do is lookup the Tier 1 fueling stations close to their home or where they routinely fuel up.
https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/.
Really? We all know this man, you aren't telling anyone anything.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Sorry I don't agree with you. Maybe you have an issue with your local Costco. One location doesn't = all.

I think you are spreading misinformation.
Customers come from all over California and Nevada to Snail so its not any one specific station.

My information was based on cold hard data, but its fine, anyone should contact their local tuners and get info about what fuels have better results (or just which ones have worse results) and go from there. No need to take my word for it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:57 AM   #32
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^^^
Guess you heard about Taylor Sims

Founder of Popular Texas Tuning Shop Dies After Crashing Lamborghini Gallardo at High Speed

Authorities and witnesses say Taylor Sims was speeding through a neighborhood in Dallas before he lost control of the exotic car.

Lambo Crash Dallas
The Dallas Morning News
The founder of a renowned Lamborghini tuning company based in Texas died in a crash last Friday, according to the Epoch Times. The report, in conjunction with The Dallas Morning News, says that 36-year-old Taylor Sims lost control of his Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera on a busy street in Dallas after driving at a high rate of speed.

Per multiple reports, Sims lost control of his Gallardo, spinning it out before hitting a curb, a wooden utility pole, and then rolling on June 7. When authorities arrived on the scene, they found Sims’ black Lamborghini Gallardo resting on its topside. Sims was pronounced dead upon their surveillance.

Sims leaves behind a wife and three children. A imauselessmillennial page was set up to help his family with funeral costs and other expenses.

As of this writing, the crowdfunding campaign has raised nearly $144,000 of the $200,000 goal.

“Anything will help them through this extremely trying time,” the description reads on the imauselessmillennial page. “We are never prepared for things like this whether it be physically, emotionally or financially. Anything can help even just a prayer. Please keep the Sims family in your thoughts as they adjust.”

The crash reportedly occurred just a few short blocks away from Sims’ tuning and repair shop, Dallas Performance. Sims founded the business back in 2007, specializing in the modification of high-end sports and supercars. Sims was also known to frequent local racetracks with cameo appearances in multiple YouTube videos showing off his work.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:02 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^^
Guess you heard about Taylor Sims

Founder of Popular Texas Tuning Shop Dies After Crashing Lamborghini Gallardo at High Speed

Authorities and witnesses say Taylor Sims was speeding through a neighborhood in Dallas before he lost control of the exotic car.

Lambo Crash Dallas
The Dallas Morning News
The founder of a renowned Lamborghini tuning company based in Texas died in a crash last Friday, according to the Epoch Times. The report, in conjunction with The Dallas Morning News, says that 36-year-old Taylor Sims lost control of his Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera on a busy street in Dallas after driving at a high rate of speed.

Per multiple reports, Sims lost control of his Gallardo, spinning it out before hitting a curb, a wooden utility pole, and then rolling on June 7. When authorities arrived on the scene, they found Sims’ black Lamborghini Gallardo resting on its topside. Sims was pronounced dead upon their surveillance.

Sims leaves behind a wife and three children. A imauselessmillennial page was set up to help his family with funeral costs and other expenses.

As of this writing, the crowdfunding campaign has raised nearly $144,000 of the $200,000 goal.

“Anything will help them through this extremely trying time,” the description reads on the imauselessmillennial page. “We are never prepared for things like this whether it be physically, emotionally or financially. Anything can help even just a prayer. Please keep the Sims family in your thoughts as they adjust.”

The crash reportedly occurred just a few short blocks away from Sims’ tuning and repair shop, Dallas Performance. Sims founded the business back in 2007, specializing in the modification of high-end sports and supercars. Sims was also known to frequent local racetracks with cameo appearances in multiple YouTube videos showing off his work.

Sorry if this seems insensitive; but, this guy didn't provide well enough for his family......owning that kind of shop and apparently owning a Lambo; but, they need help for funeral(and apparently other costs) asking for $200K worth of help? If they truly need it, by all means, help them. I've made sure my family won't have to pay a dime for a funeral and will have ALL my bills paid for in the event something were to happen to me. And there's no way I could probably even afford a used Lambo.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Sorry if this seems insensitive; but, this guy didn't provide well enough for his family......owning that kind of shop and apparently owning a Lambo; but, they need help for funeral(and apparently other costs) asking for $200K worth of help? If they truly need it, by all means, help them. I've made sure my family won't have to pay a dime for a funeral and will have ALL my bills paid for in the event something were to happen to me. And there's no way I could probably even afford a used Lambo.
People have different priorities. At 36, he probably thought he had at least 20 years to get his **** together.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
People have different priorities. At 36, he probably thought he had at least 20 years to get his **** together.
at 36 term life insurance is dirt cheap. no excuse not to have a pile of it with a wife and 3 kids.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:59 PM   #36
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Yep,


Sorry, sucks.


Time to sell the shop.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:21 PM   #37
dwf137
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at 36 term life insurance is dirt cheap. no excuse not to have a pile of it with a wife and 3 kids.
don't disagree. but hindsight is 20/20, or in this case...

Lots of people running around without any sort of life insurance, because it's easy to put off.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #38
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Customers come from all over California and Nevada to Snail so its not any one specific station.

My information was based on cold hard data, but its fine, anyone should contact their local tuners and get info about what fuels have better results (or just which ones have worse results) and go from there. No need to take my word for it.
"All over California", that's your problem right there. We/I use 93 octane in my bikes and car here. They don't even sell 91 at our Costco. 87 or 93. 93 octane has been excellent on our dynos, two wheeled or four.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:26 PM   #39
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91 octane is a huge problem here. The Type-RA stock tune isn't even setup for it, runs terrible on 91 and had it retuned immediately just because of that.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:37 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Top Tier has nothing to do with E10/E15. Top Tier can still have blends up to 10% ethanol depending on region and provider.
E10 can still eat away at certain things, especially on older cars.
The ethanol won't harm the metal components though, all it does is absorb water that would have puddled in the bottom of the tank and caused misfires. So long as you actually drive the vehicle regularly, the ethanol won't be able to absorb enough water to harm the metal. The rubber hose on the other hand, may not resist being damaged. Then again if the vehicle is THAT old, it would probably have been prudent to replace the hoses with compatible hose by now. They aren't meant to last forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Avoid Costco gas. They were the most inconsistent gas on the dyno I saw while working with Snail.

Chevron is by far the worst though, that Techryon junk causes issues at the top end on pretty much everything. Good way to lean out a motor quick right when it shouldn't be...
Do you mean Techroline and then Techron? They strip all of the fuel deposit gunk from the fuel system, and will keep anything that would have stuck to your injectors from doing any damage. Not sure how you conclude a lean condition would occur from using gasolines with it. In fact, supposedly gasolines with techron are good (Tier 1) stuff, but obviously don't take my word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
91 octane is a huge problem here. The Type-RA stock tune isn't even setup for it, runs terrible on 91 and had it retuned immediately just because of that.
Lame, 93 everywhere in our state. At least CA is actively trying to curb pollution, sucks for performance fans though.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-13-2019 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Do you mean Techroline and then Techron? They strip all of the fuel deposit gunk from the fuel system, and will keep anything that would have stuck to your injectors from doing any damage. Not sure how you conclude a lean condition would occur from using gasolines with it. In fact, supposedly gasolines with techron are good stuff, but obviously don't take my word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron
Like I said, it shows up during dyno tunes starting with the base run and then trying to adjust it makes it quite difficult when using Chevron. There are fluctuations with the fuel because of whatever they do with it that causes occasional moments where the fuel thats being fed isn't burning properly because the additive isn't pure fuel and doesn't burn as well. I don't know the science behind it and I'm not a dyno wizard, but I've seen what it does.

If you don't believe me, contact a tuner or just do a quick google search.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:51 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Like I said, it shows up during dyno tunes starting with the base run and then trying to adjust it makes it quite difficult when using Chevron. There are fluctuations with the fuel because of whatever they do with it that causes occasional moments where the fuel thats being fed isn't burning properly because the additive isn't pure fuel and doesn't burn as well. I don't know the science behind it and I'm not a dyno wizard, but I've seen what it does.

If you don't believe me, contact a tuner or just do a quick google search.
I've never heard this from any tuner, mine included. I've only ever used 93, plan on e85+ with the new build.
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