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Old 09-09-2019, 11:45 PM   #1
mhoward1
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Default VW debutes the ID3 Production EV

https://electrek.co/2019/09/09/vw-id...car-unveiling/

320 Mile range and a price under $33K

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Old 09-10-2019, 12:32 AM   #2
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:29 AM   #3
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He missed a golden opportunity to say "it's bigger on the inside".
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:47 AM   #4
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Golf footprint with 2.5" more headroom (maybe - depending on the seat height) and 6" more in the wheelbase should make for a spacious small car. That could be appealing to quite a few people, especially with the decent range.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:05 AM   #5
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I wish manufacturers didn't feel the need to add those goofy flourishes, like the wheels and window trim, to every EV. That could be a good looking car, if it wasn't trying to scream "I'M ELECTRIC!"
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:38 AM   #6
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waiting for the ID Buzz to hit production; the glass roof from the concept needs to be an option though not a standard item (looking at you Tesla).
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #7
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Sucks it’s an EU only car. Mother ****ers!!!
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:11 AM   #8
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Sucks itís an EU only car. Mother ****ers!!!
of course we get an SUV first

The ID4

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Old 09-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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of course we get an SUV first

The ID4

More margin and probably has a higher ďmarket potentialĒ in the US. Question is, where will pricing be and how many buyers will it truly attract? If they can get it in at $40k base with a loaded version at $50-$55k, I think it could do well. Not amazing, but good enough.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:37 AM   #10
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They need to bring this thing to the US. It's essentially a better e-golf. Better range, more hp, etc. Hell, at 201/229, it's likely to feel almost as fast as the 228/258 gti because of the insta-torque.

Honestly, this thing is close to ticking the boxes I want in an EV. Add a second motor to give this awd and somewhere around 400 hp, and I'll be there.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:03 PM   #11
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I'm noticing a trend with more RWD in these introductory EVs built on EV-specific platforms. This is very encouraging.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:19 PM   #12
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I'm noticing a trend with more RWD in these introductory EVs built on EV-specific platforms. This is very encouraging.
That's one of the big advantages of the EV platforms. Drive configuration isn't a huge engineering or complete redesign process.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
waiting for the ID Buzz to hit production;
Same, only 2 more years. I'm curious what the entry price for it will be.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-10-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:13 PM   #14
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Same, only 2 more years. I'm curious what the entry price for it will be.
Whatever it is, expect ADM's through the roof for the first few years... lots of pent up demand for a bus in the US market.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:57 PM   #15
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Did the old e Golf have an in-axle motor, or was it more like the FWD style Bolt ? The axle based motor is the future. Tesla pioneered that and slowly the industry will follow.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:28 PM   #16
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When they get to hub-based motors we can have the perfect 4x4 with articulation for days and days.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:57 PM   #17
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Did the old e Golf have an in-axle motor, or was it more like the FWD style Bolt ? The axle based motor is the future. Tesla pioneered that and slowly the industry will follow.
Why? Added unsprung mass = bad. constraining their location will undoubtly bring more complications - tighter space = more difficult connections, harder to work on, less cooling, etc. Also, they require direct engagement with the wheel, no future ability to add a gearbox, which can have benefits. I'd certainly bet that once we start to see more performance based electric cars we'll see more EV's with gears.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:42 PM   #18
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Why? Added unsprung mass = bad. constraining their location will undoubtly bring more complications - tighter space = more difficult connections, harder to work on, less cooling, etc. Also, they require direct engagement with the wheel, no future ability to add a gearbox, which can have benefits. I'd certainly bet that once we start to see more performance based electric cars we'll see more EV's with gears.
I hope so. Having to just step on the gas and brake is ****ing weak sauce. At least give me DCT like paddles.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:29 PM   #19
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I hope so. Having to just step on the gas and brake is ****ing weak sauce. At least give me DCT like paddles.
EV's like the formula e cars have 3 gears. The Taycan has 2 gears.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:06 PM   #20
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Looks nice, good range, but sucks it's a VW. Maybe after being out a few years, they'll sort out all of the "bugs"...
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:52 AM   #21
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^ I see what you did there. Nice.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
EV's like the formula e cars have 3 gears. The Taycan has 2 gears.
2 gears.... Still sounds pretty damn boring.

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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Looks nice, good range, but sucks it's a VW. Maybe after being out a few years, they'll sort out all of the "bugs"...
Iím not sure why people worry about it being such an issue with VW versus any other manufacturer. EV is a rather pretty simple concept compared to ICE. You have a battery and an electric motor versus a complex electronic system controlling an ICE and transmission (assuming auto).

Iíll generally wait for 2nd year on any new car model. Having said that, I think current day VW electronic concerns are grossly over assumed due to vehicles pre 2012.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Why? Added unsprung mass = bad. constraining their location will undoubtly bring more complications - tighter space = more difficult connections, harder to work on, less cooling, etc. Also, they require direct engagement with the wheel, no future ability to add a gearbox, which can have benefits. I'd certainly bet that once we start to see more performance based electric cars we'll see more EV's with gears.
The biggest advantage is that you get noticeably more space in the car for a given vehicle footprint, which the vast majority of the buying public cares about. With the Tesla architecture you get rear wheel drive without a drive shaft and with a front and rear trunk, plus with the "skateboard" battery packaging you get a low floor for decent head room and a low center of gravity. Drive or ride in a Model 3 or Model S/X and you can see the advantages. My Model 3 AWD weights 4000 lbs but drives like it weighs 3000, plus for a car roughly the size of an Audi A4 it has good interior and trunk/frunk space.

EV's with gears will probably be a niche thing for a while. I can see the government eventually regulating EV energy consumption and they will start to get more complex. Tesla originally planned for 2 gear ratios in the original Roadster, but with their limited resources they couldn't figure out how to make it durable in time for production. They ended up adjusting the electrical system to get enough top end performance.

Now the dual motor systems that Tesla use have different gear ratios in the front and rear axles, which may not be as effective as having two gears on a single axle but is simpler and does have some benefits.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The biggest advantage is that you get noticeably more space in the car for a given vehicle footprint, which the vast majority of the buying public cares about. With the Tesla architecture you get rear wheel drive without a drive shaft and with a front and rear trunk, plus with the "skateboard" battery packaging you get a low floor for decent head room and a low center of gravity. Drive or ride in a Model 3 or Model S/X and you can see the advantages. My Model 3 AWD weights 4000 lbs but drives like it weighs 3000, plus for a car roughly the size of an Audi A4 it has good interior and trunk/frunk space.
This discussion seems to be more of the benefits of having the batteries at the lowest part of the chassis, something that new dedicated EV platforms all have... From the Taycan to the ID.3 to the Leaf, the batteries are all located in the same way that Tesla locates them. They all benefit from this. Other shoe-horned EV cars like the e-golf, mini-e, etc. lacked this design because they shoe-horned batteries into an ICE chassis.

The Taycan has a front and rear trunk, just like Tesla, despite not having hub motors, and also having a transmission in the rear. It's a pretty efficient chassis...



Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
EV's with gears will probably be a niche thing for a while. I can see the government eventually regulating EV energy consumption and they will start to get more complex. Tesla originally planned for 2 gear ratios in the original Roadster, but with their limited resources they couldn't figure out how to make it durable in time for production. They ended up adjusting the electrical system to get enough top end performance.

Now the dual motor systems that Tesla use have different gear ratios in the front and rear axles, which may not be as effective as having two gears on a single axle but is simpler and does have some benefits.
I found it interesting that the Taycan only has gears on the rear motor, the front motor is still single gear. Seems to be a similar setup to the Tesla in that they can have differing gear ratios in the front/rear. Apparently the rear is always in it's second gear, but switches to it's first gear for better acceleration.

I think geared EV's are here to stay, and will become more prevalent especially once the gvt starts to regulate their consumption. They'll have gears for the same exact reason that ICE cars have gears, and will be used in the way Porsche is using them... higher gear and lower rpm's for average driving, lower gear and faster rpm's for acceleration and sporty driving.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:48 PM   #25
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Also, speaking of cargo space...

Co-worker has a model 3. He was quite disappointed that he couldn't fit his cooler in the trunk. I just LOL'd and popped my hatch. (i didn't really, but I wish I was there to do it.)

+1 for the ID.3 in real-life applications of owning a car. Cargo space means nothing if you can't actually use it.
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