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Old 10-09-2019, 11:34 AM   #51
Skylab
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Two things that could help self-image and the "Me me me!" syndrome:

-Psychedelics

-Stop drinking, go to AA meetings and clean up your life.

I did the latter. Ended up selling my Golf R (admittedly have seller's remorse).
All this material crap and the syndrome of self-centeredness and self-involvement is an illusion.
We should be kind to one another and help each other out.
Always thinking of myself got really lonely.


And regarding the topic of this thread, I think it's mind bottling that $45k'ish is the new low-end standard for nice cars.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
good luck finding them cheaper, when brand new ones are still 45k+ even with discounts. I didn't want a base model work truck.

I searched for over 6 months and trucks hold their values extremely well.

maintenance is apart of vehicle ownership. Even if I had to buy tires and brakes, which I would do myself, that doesn't equal 13k.
You can get a Ford F-150 XLT Supercrew cab with 2.7lt eco boost, sport package, 302a and tow package for around $33-$34k for 4x2 or around $39k for 4x4. Oh, that includes having the seats reupholstered with cat skinz leather. A used truck with similar specs and maybe 1-2 years old with 20-30k will still fetch for $28kíish for 4x2 or $32k-$35k. IMO, Iíd rather spend the additional $4k-$5k for a new truck with a warranty, knowing the way it was driven, and also having a lower interest rate than buying used.

If you can find the exact similar vehicle for $10k off and a year or two old with under 30k miles, then it might be a decent deal.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:40 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Two things that could help self-image and the "Me me me!" syndrome:

-Psychedelics

-Stop drinking, go to AA meetings and clean up your life.

I did the latter. Ended up selling my Golf R (admittedly have seller's remorse).
All this material crap and the syndrome of self-centeredness and self-involvement is an illusion.
We should be kind to one another and help each other out.
Always thinking of myself got really lonely.


And regarding the topic of this thread, I think it's mind bottling that $45k'ish is the new low-end standard for nice cars.
Itís mind boggling that you used mind bottling incorrectly.

Sorry Sky, had to do it. Donít hate me.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:45 AM   #54
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It's definitely having an impact on life for me. I quit going to the movie theater early this year because for 2 years straight it was smartphone interruptions in the films. Mostly from that generation, but older folks would do it too once in a while. I shooshed people a few years ago they'd apologize and decease. But as the months went on the nose in the air attitude increased to where they'd do nothing, laugh or smile. At that point I'd get them kicked out but you lose 10 minutes of the film doing so. I got to know the ushers, manager and GM of the place all by first name. I got so many passes for free films that I have a stack of them I'll never use. It led to me severely upgrading a rather ghetto home theater into a real one, with 4k Dolby Vision, and 4 channels of Dolby Atmos. 11 speakers, and chest thumping bass. The good is that PQ and sound makes my previous cineplex look like the slides at your local McDeez. And that cineplex is state of the art as far as theaters go. What isn't good is the money I had to pay and still paying on it.

It's having an impact on my film channels at home also as the younger generation wants to stream everything so companies are pairing off one by one to stream their own crap, and get into fisticuffs with my satellite provider.

Then there is my passion in life, motorcycling. That generation isn't buying isn't riding so my suppliers I have used for 20+ years are closing one by one and so are local dealerships. I just had to source some parts (aftermarket) for a bike that is almost but not quite yet 10 years old and I had e-suck a company in Europe's dick, begging and pleading and they finally shipped what I needed today.

If you like to get a new phone every year, and do screen time on your phone all day errryday, surf your phone while you drive, have your phone interrupt meals, play on it during films, do selfies at the bars with your friends, walk like a zombie in public smashing into things while you walk, this is the society for you. For the rest of it it's a curse, a plague. Driving/riding is a nightmare most days. Inattentive driving on my local roads is like merging into a sea of drunks most days. My only escape is my local twisties and I have to game the times on the weekends like a mob guy casing a joint, with written notes on hours of the day, skipping holiday weekends and having to be a got damn gangster about it all. I can game the sheep or tits of this world, but it's taking more effort to do so compared to any point in my life. And my house which I have heavily invested in (remodeling, structural/efficiency work), I had planned on being one and done and dying in the mf'er, will be sold once the bulk of my career is completed and I'll be searching for property close to a clean water lake out in the sticks and away from the city, the phones, and the maniacal addiction to image phone app media bs. I loathe camping as it's hot as hell here and humid. But I'd rather move to the sticks and buy a swamp cooler, buy some flannel (I hate f'in flannel), and chop wood for the winter and be that guy. I'll commit seppuku before I join this herd of people who do nothing but f with that phone and apps. My God in Heaven what a wasted life. You get one life on this Earth, and it's very very short, and you are going to spend it on your phone viewing fake social media apps and taking pics of yourself. Die you heathens, kill yourself and show me you still have some honor.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:48 AM   #55
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I bet your fun at parties
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:50 AM   #56
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Two things that could help self-image and the "Me me me!" syndrome:

-Psychedelics

-Stop drinking, go to AA meetings and clean up your life.

...
I'd just like to commend you for stating these two truths. Treating the first as seriously as a religious sacrament and the second as serious as if your life and your family depend on it will get a lot of people a thousand miles towards a better life.

as for the rest of the discussion, it was covered by Fight Club fairly well.

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The things you own end up owning you.

-Tyler Durden
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:34 PM   #58
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Life is ****ing hard. So hard.

~this thread
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:50 PM   #59
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Economists call this the everything Bubble.
Houses, rents, autos, availability of loans and payback terms.
Gen X and Y can't get a start on life so many think bubbles may pop to affordable levels to find realistic market. This should have happened in 2008 but [pushed off with printing money. So either current Gens get more pay or lower prices in order.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:51 PM   #60
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social media breeds the need for acceptance and attention. Look what I bought! Look what I installed. You crave inclusion and acceptance. To be considered unique. It is a natural feeling that use to be limited to once a month car shows or some other hobby get together. Social media allows us to constantly measure ourselves against others. I am member of watch groups, and classic car groups and ridgeline groups, and a few camera groups. I feel the pressure to buy new stuff all the time so I can 'show it off'. But then realize I cannot operate in the same circles as others.

Secret to being happy is being thrilled with what you have.
Quoted for truth. The one overriding thing my Father taught me was donít worry about what you donít have.

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Old 10-09-2019, 12:56 PM   #61
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See if we can get back on topic.

Yeah, I'm a Jeep guy; I have had 3 Wranglers over the years, so the Jeep Gladiator should be an easy sell to me. I was in the dealer a month ago getting an oil filter for my Jeep. So naturally I check out the Gladiator while there. As soon as I sit in the drivers seat I get accosted by a salesman: "so whadda think, nice huh?" I told him it's nice but honestly I think it's way overpriced.....like 10K overpriced and I think Jeep is being greedy. To his credit he didn't get all pissy. It honestly looked like he felt the same. He responded with, " yeah well we'll see, if the price is too much then the incentives will be coming" and ambled off. I feel like ever since Jeep did a survey that showed their average Wrangler buyer made 120K a year they can price the thing with Porsche pricing.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:07 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
See if we can get back on topic.

Yeah, I'm a Jeep guy; I have had 3 Wranglers over the years, so the Jeep Gladiator should be an easy sell to me. I was in the dealer a month ago getting an oil filter for my Jeep. So naturally I check out the Gladiator while there. As soon as I sit in the drivers seat I get accosted by a salesman: "so whadda think, nice huh?" I told him it's nice but honestly I think it's way overpriced.....like 10K overpriced and I think Jeep is being greedy. To his credit he didn't get all pissy. It honestly looked like he felt the same. He responded with, " yeah well we'll see, if the price is too much then the incentives will be coming" and ambled off. I feel like ever since Jeep did a survey that showed their average Wrangler buyer made 120K a year they can price the thing with Porsche pricing.
I definitely agree as a fellow Wrangler owner. I didn't even sit in the Gladiator at the dealership after seeing the $50k+ price tag on the window sticker.

https://jalopnik.com/there-are-a-cra...l-o-1837792156

Part of this could be the JK/JL 2018 model transition.. but I'm sure part of it is pricing. Jeeps have gotten so expensive.. $10-15k more than what I paid for mine in 2014 with the same engine..
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:09 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
See if we can get back on topic.

Yeah, I'm a Jeep guy; I have had 3 Wranglers over the years, so the Jeep Gladiator should be an easy sell to me. I was in the dealer a month ago getting an oil filter for my Jeep. So naturally I check out the Gladiator while there. As soon as I sit in the drivers seat I get accosted by a salesman: "so whadda think, nice huh?" I told him it's nice but honestly I think it's way overpriced.....like 10K overpriced and I think Jeep is being greedy. To his credit he didn't get all pissy. It honestly looked like he felt the same. He responded with, " yeah well we'll see, if the price is too much then the incentives will be coming" and ambled off. I feel like ever since Jeep did a survey that showed their average Wrangler buyer made 120K a year they can price the thing with Porsche pricing.
Even at making $120k a year, a $50k vehicle seems pretty damn steep to me but I could be cheap. Figure after taxes your bringing home around $75k a year. Hopefully maxing out the match on 401k so maybe down to $65k a year. Letís put a conservative mortgage payment at $2500 (some places itís way higher, obvi) leaves you with $30k a year. Factor in food, gas, insurance, whatever other garbage you buy and thereís not much left if anything.

$120k a year and Iím looking at $30k-$35k max on a vehicle, new or used.

Iím assuming we see $10-$12k incentives, factor in dealership sale and maybe you can get a total of $15k off which would make it reasonable, at least to me.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:15 PM   #64
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Even at making $120k a year, a $50k vehicle seems pretty damn steep to me but I could be cheap. Figure after taxes your bringing home around $75k a year. Hopefully maxing out the match on 401k so maybe down to $65k a year. Letís put a conservative mortgage payment at $2500 (some places itís way higher, obvi) leaves you with $30k a year. Factor in food, gas, insurance, whatever other garbage you buy and thereís not much left if anything.

$120k a year and Iím looking at $30k-$35k max on a vehicle, new or used.

Iím assuming we see $10-$12k incentives, factor in dealership sale and maybe you can get a total of $15k off which would make it reasonable, at least to me.
It's probably because I am older, but I have the same view. heck, even $40K seems steep to me, but mostly because I don't finance vehicle (or haven't in quite some time). I will say free money (0% financing) does have a lot of appeal, but you have to have the discipline to not spend that money on other income sucking endeavors.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:37 PM   #65
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Apparently you can now spec a Wrangler at $60k with the new diesel engine for 2020. The 3.0D engine is a $6k option ($4k for diesel engine upgrade and $2k for the 8 speed auto).

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/for...d-at-6k.39290/

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Old 10-09-2019, 01:42 PM   #66
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It's probably because I am older, but I have the same view. heck, even $40K seems steep to me, but mostly because I don't finance vehicle (or haven't in quite some time). I will say free money (0% financing) does have a lot of appeal, but you have to have the discipline to not spend that money on other income sucking endeavors.
$40k is steep. I bought the M2 used for $45k and I had a very hard time stomaching that, mostly because I sold some stock to put half down. I think my interest rate was 3.7% which I’m fine with since my investments yield significantly more than that and using more money from that would be silly.

I guess if you have a combined household income of $175k + it’s more doable but I also didn’t factor in kids, etc.

I’m guessing a lot of people are leasing these. You can get a Gladiator Sport S for like $350 a month. I’m betting you could get a top trim Gladiator for $500-$550 a month.

I’m just still blown away that people are willing to pay $40k-$50k for a vehicle that is insanely loud, rather uncomfy, really cheap interior, etc. I get it’s very capable off road but still, $40k-$50k? People be crazy.


Other ridiculous side not, the AMG G-Wagen can go for over $200k. **** me, that’s nuts.

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Old 10-09-2019, 02:27 PM   #67
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I would pay 50K for a Wrangler... Hellcat.

^And re: your ridiculous sidenote... here's the Silicon Valley version of that... there are 2 sisters at the horse barn who each have 200K G63's - got them for their 16th b-days. But what's a 200K car when you each have millions in horses along with full support staff. Disgusting.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:27 PM   #68
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$40k is steep. I bought the M2 used for $45k and I had a very hard time stomaching that, mostly because I sold some stock to put half down. I think my interest rate was 3.7% which I’m fine with since my investments yield significantly more than that and using more money from that would be silly.

I guess if you have a combined household income of $175k + it’s more doable but I also didn’t factor in kids, etc.

I’m guessing a lot of people are leasing these. You can get a Gladiator Sport S for like $350 a month. I’m betting you could get a top trim Gladiator for $500-$550 a month.

I’m just still blown away that people are willing to pay $40k-$50k for a vehicle that is insanely loud, rather uncomfy, really cheap interior, etc. I get it’s very capable off road but still, $40k-$50k? People be crazy.


Other ridiculous side not, the AMG G-Wagen can go for over $200k. **** me, that’s nuts.
It's funny because I have come to the time in my life/career that I can pretty much afford any of the vehicles of my teenage dreams, but I also gotten to the point where I want to spend the money on experiences and this >< close to being able to retire early. Every $1.50 I spend is one minute longer until I can retire comfortably (100% guestimation).

I am so conflicted.

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Old 10-09-2019, 02:56 PM   #69
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You can get a Ford F-150 XLT Supercrew cab with 2.7lt eco boost, sport package, 302a and tow package for around $33-$34k for 4x2 or around $39k for 4x4. Oh, that includes having the seats reupholstered with cat skinz leather. A used truck with similar specs and maybe 1-2 years old with 20-30k will still fetch for $28k’ish for 4x2 or $32k-$35k. IMO, I’d rather spend the additional $4k-$5k for a new truck with a warranty, knowing the way it was driven, and also having a lower interest rate than buying used.

If you can find the exact similar vehicle for $10k off and a year or two old with under 30k miles, then it might be a decent deal.

Gotta justify the LS V8 bro.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:26 PM   #70
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I would pay 50K for a Wrangler... Hellcat.

^And re: your ridiculous sidenote... here's the Silicon Valley version of that... there are 2 sisters at the horse barn who each have 200K G63's - got them for their 16th b-days. But what's a 200K car when you each have millions in horses along with full support staff. Disgusting.
Nobody out-bubbles your bubble.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:23 PM   #71
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I bet your fun at parties
A lot more fun than you discussing sammiches from the local sack meal joint.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:59 AM   #72
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A lot more fun than you discussing sammiches from the local sack meal joint.
Must be millennial humor... not sure what a sack meal joint is...But I do love a good sammich.

Tell me again how you have solar panels on your house. and how you are smarter than the mouth breathers.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:38 AM   #73
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Must be millennial humor... not sure what a sack meal joint is...But I do love a good sammich.

Tell me again how you have solar panels on your house. and how you are smarter than the mouth breathers.
Sack meal joint is your local fast food joint you love so much. The food is delivered in sacks, and makes up the bulk of the trash in your local landfill.

$75 a month summer electricity bills in the heat and humidity of TX. At the same time $25 a month in gas

Not smarter, just have common courtesy in public. I don't play on my phone while I drive, I don't play with the phone in public period.

Oh and tit for tat. Tell us Scrap, how many cars have you had? Do you have a website detailing all your buys and sells? Because we're all so interested.
I'd mention something else but you'd go bonkers if I said it, and I won't hit you below the belt. Enjoy the mainstream life yo! YOLO!

Last edited by Pre; 10-10-2019 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:52 AM   #74
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Its the paradigm for normal car that has shifted more than actual MSRP. There are still cheap good cars and mfgs would make more of them and would go further downmarket if the market dictated so.

You can get a low-medium optioned civic, corolla, accord, crosstrek, camry, low end hyundai, etc for low to mid 20s still right?

You can drive any of these for 200k miles, have enough tech and comfort that they would be considered a high luxury car 10-15 years ago. Your friends and family will think its a poverty car because it isnt an SUV or Truck and doesn't even have leather. In reality its a brand new car and is galldarned luxury.

I think the market is overserved, but loves it.....because debt.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:41 AM   #75
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Sack meal joint is your local fast food joint you love so much. The food is delivered in sacks, and makes up the bulk of the trash in your local landfill.

$75 a month summer electricity bills in the heat and humidity of TX. At the same time $25 a month in gas

Not smarter, just have common courtesy in public. I don't play on my phone while I drive, I don't play with the phone in public period.

Oh and tit for tat. Tell us Scrap, how many cars have you had? Do you have a website detailing all your buys and sells? Because we're all so interested.
I'd mention something else but you'd go bonkers if I said it, and I won't hit you below the belt. Enjoy the mainstream life yo! YOLO!
actually it is funny you mentioned it... I did have a website where I chronicled all my cars I have bought and sold. I let it expire though, which is a shame. As I chronicled them all, and what each one taught me. It was a huge labor of love, but just never found a way to market it. Now I do a review website and I am almost at 100k hits. So small audience, but they seem to really be interested.

Since you asked. I was up to 22 cars I have owned since my first salvage title Datsun 510 when I was 17. Been an interesting path that includes 9 Subarus.

I love it how you categorize people. I eat fast food about once a month as a fun treat for my kids. We cook in my house.. Mostly I cook. And I love it. I grow most of my own veggies and ALL my herbs. Bet that shocks you. I love gardening as well as huge fire breathing 6 carburetor old cars. I think man made climate change is a total BS hoax, but I never pollute if I can and contribute to ocean clean up financially and personally. Lesson is you cannot put everybody in a box. I used to volunteer at the local retired greyhound rescue and adopted one. But since I had kids I lack the time, but I still donate monthly. People are far more complicated.

Those mouth breathers as you call them, may just be a great hard working person that just has different values than you do. Just because he is different does not make them worse. That guy in the F150 that you despise. Well that may be the car he wanted for 15 years and was finally able to take his family camping now.

Judge less and smile more.

Oh and just for clarity


Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 10-10-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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