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Old 11-06-2019, 07:25 PM   #51
h3llsp4wn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Why do people still think FWD cars can't perform extremely well?
Because they are only good in absolute perfect road conditions. Add s little sleet, rain, or snow and all that goes out the window. I drove a CTR awhile back, and while it did handle better than my last fwd car (rsx-s), it still exhibited characteristics i couldn't stand about either- wheel spin, and wheel hop.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:06 PM   #52
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My 2012 GTI did pretty damn in the snow with snow tires on it. I don’t think I had any issue that winter with it or when I moved to Seattle.

So again, by your metric of wheel spin etc not making worthy unless perfect road conditions, once can conclude that rwd cars are only good in “perfect road conditions.” Correct?
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:07 PM   #53
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meh, the Next gen corvette is being delayed till 2020... so how in the world can it win the 2019 awards... I imagine the Z51 vette will pull top ranks when its not a preproduction test car...
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
RE: "fwd vs rwd slipping"

Front wheel drive slipping isn't fun, nor performant. RWD, slipping a little is actually ideal for rotation. Slipping RWD is also fun as hell.

To better make this point (not that this is possible): Take two cars that are exactly the same, except one is FWD and one is RWD. I bet 10/10 times, someone who is well practiced with both will turn out faster lap times in the RWD.
Depends on the track as you'll have more drivetrain parasitic power loss on the RWD. A tighter course favors the FWD, if we're playing all things being equal (same output from the engine).

--kC
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:46 AM   #55
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Paid advertisement. That's the first thing that came to my mind.

"this thing is nice, it's great, the seats are great, not much torque steer, it pushes in the turns but it's really great. impressed. woah. it has selectable modes based on what you want. really great. this is a really, really great car. Only driven this track for a total of 5 laps, but I'm fully qualified to be the sole reviewer. btw, I daily drive a 1993 golf, so that's what I'm comparing to..."


It looks like a good car for what it is. Does it offer a better VALUE than the other cars they tested? Sure. But is this a VALUE award? No.

The last line of their article is interesting... "We got your letter, Hyundai. We heart you, too." How much cash was in that envelope?
That was a really good impersonation of our president in that second paragraph

That aside, I do think part of this award is VALUE for the enthusiast - who cares about giving awards to a car if only 5 people can buy it? It won't do jack for the performance car enthusiasts. Something that people can reasonably afford like the N or C8? Way more impact, I'd say.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:32 PM   #56
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Look at the cars they select, they obviously don't grab every single performance car available. Supposedly it's an assembly of the new performance cars available but it's not quite a defined criteria either. Obviously, there are cars that are iterations of existing models. In the end, it is a random Hodge podge of performance cars.
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:20 PM   #57
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I honestly don't think the C8 should have been there. It was pre-prod and the car still isn't being delivered yet until maybe next year now. Do what one can buy off the showroom floor. And I think that may have weighed in a bit into the decision to not pick at least THAT car. Which means they'll probably allow it in next year even though it's not really a new model. Just because...

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Old 11-07-2019, 01:35 PM   #58
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Or they brought it to show their readers it's worth waiting for. And the Hyundai is worth looking at.
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:44 PM   #59
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I’m just happy the Supra keeps getting crapped on for being a hard top Z4 with a slight tune.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:17 PM   #60
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I was looking at some new 2019 Veloster N a few months back and there were exactly ZERO within 150 miles with the Perf Package and its "N Corner Carving Differential"; open diff for all.
Just looked again a few mins ago, looks like MY2020 rolled in and almost all of them have the perf package with the tricked out front diff and there are 7 of them at the local dealer.
Not bad at all for $30K; but, I'm not sure it's quite big enough inside for my liking.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:31 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The Type-R sounds terrible, looks terrible and doesn't like to rotate like the N does.

Its faster on the track yes, but so is everything else on this test but the Miata. Track times only matter if you are actually competetivly competing with the thing.
I daily drive a Type R, I'd love to know how it sounds terrible? Looks are subjective, but let me tell you - I've never had so many random people compliment the Type R than I have any other car I've owned.

'00 Honda Civic Si x2
'05 BMW 330Ci ZHP
'06 Acura RSX Type S x2 (dealer totaled one )
'07 Subaru STi
'11 Honda Civic Si Sedan
'18 Subaru STi Type RA
'19 Honda Civic Type R

Out of all of those, the Type R has yielded more compliments in one month of ownership than all of the other cars combined in all my years of owning them.

That said, the CTR took a long-long time to grow on me and I love the car.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:52 PM   #62
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Out of the last few cars I've had (BRZ, Chevy SS, GTI, STI) the GTI was by far the most fun on a back road and for autocross.
Truth.

My GTI is much more fun to drive than my Mustang was, despite the Mustang being objectively faster in probably every metric.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:04 PM   #63
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Iím just happy the Supra keeps getting crapped on for being a hard top Z4 with a slight tune.
I have always liked you.


Piss on Toyota. IF you cannot be bothered to take 100% ownership of your own Halo car, then I cannot be bothered to give a damn. This is Toyota we are talking about. Not a small company. No respect left for them.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:55 PM   #64
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Ok, bear with me on this, but my beef with FWD cars is that they all have the same kind of steering feel. I'm not talking about understeer, or anything over their limits. But all the cars I've driven that had a sideways mounted motor and only front wheel drive, had a particular type of steering feel. It's not digital vs analog, because they all did it. Heavy or light resistance, same thing. And again, it's not under understeer or torque steer situations. Tires have full traction when this happens. I haven't driven the latest CTR or the Veloster N, so I'm really curious to see if they addressed it with those cars.

Another attempt at describing the feeling - it feels like the steering pulls the car from side to side, from a point ABOVE the engine. Like the steering wheel changes the direction of the hood, and the front end follows. On a RWD car, it feels like the steering wheel pulls from the oil pan, or somewhere lower in the front end. I'm aware of the packaging differences, but the steering racks are all mounted pretty close to the same area of the car. Has anyone else noticed this?
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:26 PM   #65
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I have always liked you.


Piss on Toyota. IF you cannot be bothered to take 100% ownership of your own Halo car, then I cannot be bothered to give a damn. This is Toyota we are talking about. Not a small company. No respect left for them.
You get me, I get you. Itís a bromance

I mean, the Supra was definitely no skyline gtr or even gts so I wouldnít ever expect it to compete with the new GTR but for ****s sake, quit being a bunch of penny pinching cheap ****s without any creative vision and create your own ****ing halo car. Obviously cost of r&d played a factor but I also think Toyota has forgotten how to build a true higher performance sports car, or they lack the team to do so.

The Supra is legitimately a hard top Z4, has a stage 1 tune, stiffer springs, and mapping of a ZF trans which ironically isnít that great. There is jack diddle **** about the car that says ďIím a Toyota SupraĒ besides the badging, door handles, and rear end.

I hope they lose their ass on this car. Dealers around me seem to be slow in moving them.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:08 PM   #66
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I daily drive a Type R, I'd love to know how it sounds terrible?
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:29 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
I have to admit for a car with a 3-tip center exhaust which I assume is supposed to hint of sporty intentions, it sounds quieter than the Civic Si.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:34 PM   #68
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I do wish the Type R still sounded like this


FWD certainly isn't the ideal drive wheels in certain conditions. All drive layouts have advantages & disadvantages.. But how many of those complaining that FWD "sucks" have driven a '97-01 Integra Type R?

Last edited by WRXnick16; 11-07-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:35 PM   #69
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The Supra is legitimately a hard top Z4, has a stage 1 tune, stiffer springs, and mapping of a ZF trans which ironically isnít that great. There is jack diddle **** about the car that says ďIím a Toyota SupraĒ besides the badging, door handles, and rear end.

I hope they lose their ass on this car. Dealers around me seem to be slow in moving them.
And remember, the Toyota badge on the hood actually has a BMW part number in the catalog!

While I hope it tanks to teach them a lesson on how to not outsource their heritage, that will also reinforce that sportscars are a dead market and they won't ever do it again, which would suck. What I hope happens is they get shat on for year 1 or 2, then add a manual and own up to it not being their own product and watch sales take off. Unlikely outcome but one can dream.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
Not making excuses, but I have read somewhere that the CTR needs to rev to nearly 3.2K RPM to reach 80 mph in top gear.
Maybe quiet is best if it's going to sound like **** on long highway trips...
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:42 PM   #71
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My primary problem with all fwd cars is a complete inability to accelerate from a stop when turning (IE right turn onto an arterial street from a side street). Once moving, they can be pretty fun, but it's that initial acceleration that just plain sucks. It's inherent - there is literally nothing that a manufacturer can do about it. A front lsd helps, but still problematic - my MCS had a mechanical front LSD but still would just spin 'em. As a city driver, this happens to me multiple times every day, so it's not something I can overlook. Will not own fwd ever again.

So, as much as the Veloster (and CTR for that matter) might be great on a track and all, it does not fit into my driving style for my commute, and therefore this thing doesn't even exist as far as I'm concerned. Might make more sense for others,but w/e.

Last edited by dwf137; 11-07-2019 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:37 PM   #72
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One man's problem is another man's fun.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:15 PM   #73
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So, as much as the Veloster (and CTR for that matter) might be great on a track and all, it does not fit into my driving style for my commute, and therefore this thing doesn't even exist as far as I'm concerned. Might make more sense for others,but w/e.
Which sums up all of our strife with the current enthusiasts car market. It's slim pickens these days. Though the N doesn't tick everybody's box, it ticket enough in this sample of reviewers to get noticed. Whether you like FWD or not, it's really important that it was selected because it drew attention to the situation: A lot of performance cars are getting numb, and that needs to change. It's going to really doom the used car market if it's flooded with a bunch numb cars that only look good on paper, but feel lackluster to drivers like all of us in this thread.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:29 PM   #74
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Which sums up all of our strife with the current enthusiasts car market. It's slim pickens these days. Though the N doesn't tick everybody's box, it ticket enough in this sample of reviewers to get noticed. Whether you like FWD or not, it's really important that it was selected because it drew attention to the situation: A lot of performance cars are getting numb, and that needs to change. It's going to really doom the used car market if it's flooded with a bunch numb cars that only look good on paper, but feel lackluster to drivers like all of us in this thread.
How is it slim pickens for enthusiasts market. I legit donít think there has ever been more.
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #75
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.....Out of all of those, the Type R has yielded more compliments in one month of ownership than all of the other cars combined in all my years of owning them.

That said, the CTR took a long-long time to grow on me and I love the car.
Substitute Baja in the highlighted area and that's my statement. More than my '04 STi when I got it. Crazy, right?
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