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Old 01-14-2020, 12:32 AM   #251
JustyWRC
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As I explained earlier, 4 lane highway (2 lanes each way with jersey barrier in middle), 60mph. (See above).

Keep "not reading".

--KC
Reading fine on this one. Trying to get more a sense of what was going on. The ONLY time you will see LKA turn "off" is when it has lost sight of the line when you are riding close to it. And then will re-engage when it acquires the line again. Or you dip below 37MPH which you obviously didn't. Your description is very similar to one I get multiple times per week; and, when I explain what's happening, many have returned to tell me that explained what happened.


You are not alone when it comes to certain descriptions of EyeSight "failures". I would absolutely love to ride along to see this as in the 9 1/2 years of messing with these systems, I haven't even remotely experienced them performing as "bad" as gets described here. NOR have I heard testimony from anyone besides this site to corroborate.

It is not a perfect system by any means. I have certainly seen/experienced it's drawbacks. The Hyundai LKA sounds great. Aren't they the ones that advertised it by driving several cars in line around a track and had all the drivers get out? That was pretty slick. But, the important part of EyeSight is the one that'll keep you from hitting something, and there's simply not a better system out there......yet.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:09 AM   #252
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To stay in the lane?

--kC
I think he mentioned making quick land changes without a blinker and with LKA on. LKA won't like that maneuver without a blinker. Can't imagine any real scenario where you would switch lanes and not use a blinker.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:45 AM   #253
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I think he mentioned making quick land changes without a blinker and with LKA on. LKA won't like that maneuver without a blinker. Can't imagine any real scenario where you would switch lanes and not use a blinker.

I can; but, it's going to be a sudden move and with the effort for that quick maneuver, LKA doesn't have that much counter effort.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:29 AM   #254
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I’ve experienced this many times in the Ascent. I’ve had to make maneuvers without the blinker and it’s easy enough to overcome LKA’s correction attempts. The roads are just crap here - full of potholes, very rough sections and the line paint is pretty much toast after the plows have their way with it. So, it’s easy to reverse engineer what Eyesight needs in order to function properly and often times, here, it doesn’t get it.
Where it really shines is RCA/RCB in parking lots (backing out of blind parking spots) and Adaptive Cruise on the highway. It is really nice and works extremely well @ 75mph-85mph. Once you learn what it needs and what it simply cannot do, it is a very nice, predictable tool.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:04 AM   #255
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I guess because I only use LKA on the highway, it never bothers me. Since roads elsewhere are pretty narrow and crappy, I have everything off, including collision prevention (traffic be slow). Sometimes a truck is parked on the shoulder and everyone has to go around it in oncoming traffic, so in that instance I'm glad I have everything turned off. I use my hazards in those instances.

Adaptive Cruise Control is what might keep me in a Subaru with EyeSight, whether CVT or manual.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:48 AM   #256
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Incoming opinion. If LKA was your excuse for almost hitting something, I think you have bad habits. Again. I've played with these things a bunch. Since day one. If I want to change lanes with LKA on, I do it. It doesn't work against me that much that I had to worry about hitting something.
Do I drive more aggressive than what LKA is intended for? Perhaps. But the interwebz is a great place to misinterpret things because I'm not here to write a book on the full situation. Front assist didn't turn on, so I wasn't truly close to hitting anything, but LKA put me closer than I wanted to be.

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But I do know my manual Civic will roll while it's in gear and engine off, which freaks me out - it's as if the gear isn't engaged with the engine off. Maybe that allows Sensing to work better with a manual, who knows?
That sounds very odd... My R definitely does not do that. So if you put your car in gear when you park, the clutch isn't actually engaged?
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:26 PM   #257
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hmmm, can anyone depict the levorg sti concept in world rally blue and gold in middle of the rims. it could make for a very interesting looking launch edition. the front fascia maybe a near match on the wrx and sti. the sedan rear is still a mystery, but if they hatch it, it may have rear overhang, but what would a coupe version look like. also they have intentionally blacked out the windows to hide the interior. what changes are they hiding
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:31 PM   #258
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hmmm, can anyone depict the levorg sti concept in world rally blue and gold in middle of the rims. it could make for a very interesting looking launch edition. the front fascia maybe a near match on the wrx and sti. the sedan rear is still a mystery, but if they hatch it, it may have rear overhang, but what would a coupe version look like. also they have intentionally blacked out the windows to hide the interior. what changes are they hiding
I think WRX and STI front ends will look significantly different than Levorg, based on their respective VIZIV concepts. But the general look and proportions will probably be same. I'm hoping there is more deviation between WRX and STI than current gen, which are basically identical. But I'm secretly hoping it's not too much different, because if STI is decidedly more awesome/attractive than WRX I'd be bummed, since I'll never get an STI.

There won't be a hatch version - Levorg is the hatch version.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:45 PM   #259
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I think WRX and STI front ends will look significantly different than Levorg, based on their respective VIZIV concepts. But the general look and proportions will probably be same. I'm hoping there is more deviation between WRX and STI than current gen, which are basically identical. But I'm secretly hoping it's not too much different, because if STI is decidedly more awesome/attractive than WRX I'd be bummed, since I'll never get an STI.

There won't be a hatch version - Levorg is the hatch version.
I look at the levorg being more of a wagon variant instead of a 5-door hatch. but the spyshots are being kept so secret that a japanese magazine may reveal a very good rendering before the spyshot appears. we shall see eventually, possiblity of a pre-production version of the wrx at Chicago with the concept looking interior, perhaps.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:05 PM   #260
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I look at the levorg being more of a wagon variant instead of a 5-door hatch. but the spyshots are being kept so secret that a japanese magazine may reveal a very good rendering before the spyshot appears. we shall see eventually, possiblity of a pre-production version of the wrx at Chicago with the concept looking interior, perhaps.
I think our next chance to see something is NYIAS in April. It seems likely that we would get a WRX and/or STI "prototype" at that point, since it will be about the same point in time before production as Levorg Prototype was revealed.

I'm not sure when/where they would reveal the production Levorg. Sales are supposed to start 2Q 2020 so that should be soon.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:07 PM   #261
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Do I drive more aggressive than what LKA is intended for? Perhaps. But the interwebz is a great place to misinterpret things because I'm not here to write a book on the full situation. Front assist didn't turn on, so I wasn't truly close to hitting anything, but LKA put me closer than I wanted to be.



That sounds very odd... My R definitely does not do that. So if you put your car in gear when you park, the clutch isn't actually engaged?

One thing I do hate about forums, FB, Texts and the sort is not portraying the correct tone/emotion. I didn't mean that statement to sound as brash as text comes across. Apologies if it did. My job is to help folks understand the car more. Not saying you need that help; but, sometimes, just sometimes I can tell something to someone that they didn't realize. I think that if you play with it more and "got used to it", then it would be fine. Just sounds like the Sonata was easier to get used to......working better for LKA.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:30 PM   #262
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One thing I do hate about forums, FB, Texts and the sort is not portraying the correct tone/emotion. I didn't mean that statement to sound as brash as text comes across. Apologies if it did. My job is to help folks understand the car more. Not saying you need that help; but, sometimes, just sometimes I can tell something to someone that they didn't realize. I think that if you play with it more and "got used to it", then it would be fine. Just sounds like the Sonata was easier to get used to......working better for LKA.
Yeah... our little list of smilies only go so far to try to construe tone/emotion. No offense was taken, just wanted to clarify that I didn't think LKA was going to end my life or something, but it interfered in a maneuver in a way that was certainly undesired.

I gave it a solid try. Drove around with it for a while before turning it off. It would constantly give resistance on backroads when I tried to avoid driving directly over manhole covers or potholes. Same on the highway - the highways around here are really rutted in the drive lanes, so I often drive offset in the lane because its smoother and quieter. LKA hates that. I felt like I was constantly steering to keep my place in the lane. I thought maybe it was just the camber in the road, but then once I turned off LKA, I stopped having to counter steer.

Maybe the VW system is a lot more aggressive than Eyesight. But whatever the reason, I just can't stand it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:35 PM   #263
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Lane Keep and Levorg. How'd this happen.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:37 PM   #264
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It's the internet. People will always find something pointless to argue about.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:27 PM   #265
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Lane Keep and Levorg. How'd this happen.

Levorg Prototype is sporting EyeSight 4.0 with radar. It progressed from there.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:42 PM   #266
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I think our next chance to see something is NYIAS in April. It seems likely that we would get a WRX and/or STI "prototype" at that point, since it will be about the same point in time before production as Levorg Prototype was revealed.

I'm not sure when/where they would reveal the production Levorg. Sales are supposed to start 2Q 2020 so that should be soon.
they could reveal the levorg at the Beijing or Shanghai auto show in may
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:17 PM   #267
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That sounds very odd... My R definitely does not do that. So if you put your car in gear when you park, the clutch isn't actually engaged?
Yeah, unlike any other manual I've driven, if you put it in gear and don't use the parking brake, the car will roll if it's not a very flat surface. I've had several near disasters before I got used to using the brake every time. To make it even more interesting, the parking brake button only works about 50% of the time. I have to listen for it to engage.

All the Civics do this, others have reported it.

Honda ain't what it used to be.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:22 PM   #268
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It's the internet. People will always find something pointless to argue about.
VIR, that is all.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:30 PM   #269
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VIR, that is all.
Shhhhhhh.... they will be summoned...
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:43 AM   #270
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they could reveal the levorg at the Beijing or Shanghai auto show in may
Ah that's true. Levorg seems to be popular in the region, lots of Philippine news on it when I search haha. I'm also curious how quickly they'll get it going in Europe. Probably early 2021, so might see it at some car show there? Going to the 1.8 seems like a sweet spot for the typical EU customers.

Really what they need to do is once WRX production starts, accidentally build one of those for NA onto an EU LHD Levorg chassis. They're built side by side, so there's a chance. Once they get to the trunk and realize they messed up, just finish it off with Levorg bits and a WRX badge and send it to me. I'll never tell anyone.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:46 PM   #271
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Shhhhhhh.... they will be summoned...
I have no desire to have that mess unfold again, what a cluster .... that was.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:53 PM   #272
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Ah that's true. Levorg seems to be popular in the region, lots of Philippine news on it when I search haha. I'm also curious how quickly they'll get it going in Europe. Probably early 2021, so might see it at some car show there? Going to the 1.8 seems like a sweet spot for the typical EU customers.[...]
Fuel mileage / CO2 emissions is what drives the European market; Subaru had to pull FB16DIT from Levorg in Europe because it was deemed too thirsty (and maybe too dirty as well) under WLTP testing.
So, at the moment, across Europe, Levorg uses the 150-hp FB20 with 167 g/km of CO2; which is simply not competitive compared to what other manufacturers are delivering.
IMO, if the new 1.8L can't do better than FB20 then it's going to be DOA.
Subaru needs to start thinking 1.2T~1.4T; that's what other manus have been doing starting in 2012 (1.0T 3-cyl Ford Ecoboost, 1.2T 3-cyl PSA PureTech,...).
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:45 PM   #273
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Fuel mileage / CO2 emissions is what drives the European market; Subaru had to pull FB16DIT from Levorg in Europe because it was deemed too thirsty (and maybe too dirty as well) under WLTP testing.
So, at the moment, across Europe, Levorg uses the 150-hp FB20 with 167 g/km of CO2; which is simply not competitive compared to what other manufacturers are delivering.
IMO, if the new 1.8L can't do better than FB20 then it's going to be DOA.
Subaru needs to start thinking 1.2T~1.4T; that's what other manus have been doing starting in 2012 (1.0T 3-cyl Ford Ecoboost, 1.2T 3-cyl PSA PureTech,...).
A couple different publication show the 1.6DIT Levorg puts out 164 g/km CO2, so I doubt it was too dirty.

https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/s...-16-cvt-170-hp

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...c-2015-review/
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:45 PM   #274
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A couple different publication show the 1.6DIT Levorg puts out 164 g/km CO2, so I doubt it was too dirty.

https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/s...-16-cvt-170-hp

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...c-2015-review/
The 164 g/km figure is likely NEDC cycle; not sure what that translated to under WLTP testing (especially if FB16DIT ends up needing a particulate filter to meet Euro 6d-Temp / Euro 6d).
But, in average, under WLTP, CO2 emissions are up to 25% higher (give or take); so, FB16DIT figure is most likely closer to 200 g/km.

The 167 g/km quoted for Levorg FB20 is not truly WLTP either; it's a bit higher than NEDC but do not reflect a true WLTP cycle (pulled it off Subaru France; they called it "NEDC correlated", an attempt to reflect numbers closer to WLTP).
But, IMO, we should anticipate that FB20 is going to do a bit better than FB16DIT under WLTP.
I hope Subaru sorts it out; we'll see.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:45 PM   #275
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Ah that's true. Levorg seems to be popular in the region, lots of Philippine news on it when I search haha. I'm also curious how quickly they'll get it going in Europe. Probably early 2021, so might see it at some car show there? Going to the 1.8 seems like a sweet spot for the typical EU customers.
EVO seemed to think it won't go to Europe cause regulations require a high average fleet MPG, and Subaru doesn't sell enough EVs and hybrids there.
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