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Old 07-30-2019, 11:59 AM   #2251
Lindy19
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2010 WRX 130,000 km's. Stage 2

Shrapnel

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Last edited by Lindy19; 07-30-2019 at 11:59 AM. Reason: pic change
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:06 PM   #2252
ZigZac225
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Default Possible Rod Failure

So yesterday was the day to finally install my VF48 on my 06 WRX. Fallowed all the instruction on installing the turbo. After 9 hours of trying to get the stupid Banjo bolt lined up with the turbo to seal properly (keep in mind i installed and re-installed the intercooler like 3x to adjust the seals on the bolt) I was finally ready to take it for a spin.

One major problem. I forgot to add coolant back into the system so basically ran the car dry of coolant, oil flow was fine. Car heated up quickly once I started up a hill so I pulled over and shut it off to examine the problem. After realizing the problem I let the car sit for a few minutes to cool down then drove it straight home. Added coolant back in to the system and the temperature stabilized.

This morning I started the car up and heard this noise that could only be heard from inside the vehicle. Somewhat of a faint rolling around noise. Noise disappeared while driving to work but has become increasingly louder. Not knowing everything about these engines I've come to the conclusion that it has spun bearing. Its hard to say exactly because the noise sounds like its from my transmission and now my transmission has a faint whine when coming to a complete stop in neutral. I find it amazing that the engine spun a bearing within no longer than 5~10 minutes of driving. Never boosted the car either because I knew not to and that I was getting a tune for the new set up today.

Did notice yesterday that both front inner cv joints where torn and had fluid in them. Car was jacked up and put on one jack stand while I did the swap. Not sure exactly what is wrong or where the noise exactly coming from. P.S.. no metal shavings in the oil.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:35 AM   #2253
bigBADbenny
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Did you pull the fuel pump fuse to prime the new turbo with oil?
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:31 PM   #2254
Zcypot
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Happened like 5 months ago.

I was speeding up to the speed limit with a SRT8 jeep. I shifted to 4th and heard some rattling..like VERY fast vibrating. sounded like a coin in a metal bowl, as I shifted into 5th, it *CLING* and didnt hear it again. 20miles later I get to the offramp and slow down. I roll off and hear the dreaded knock!

Catch my reaction lol

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtUG1UJg...on_share_sheet
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:35 AM   #2255
pomen_GTR
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Yeah.. never ending cases of the horrible rod knock...

Although it wasnt my car..more like a close friend of mine (im often doing the work on the car)..

Story a bit long..so please hold on to me...

The engine is ej20 from ver.7 bugeye jdm spec wrx (not sti) with single avcs, td04L and 5mt 4.444 final drive...

Cars were running fine and strong on ful stock engine from the swap...

Datalog done and virtual dyno yeild about 190whp and and 189lbft torque...

Then phase 2 upgrade:
-Sti pink 550cc injector
-Big 3" core top mount intercooler
-Aftermarket fuel rail with braided line
-3" downpipe and catless full exhaust system
-walbro 255 fuelpump
-td05 16g (or 18g im not sure since this turbo came used..so no actual spec)
-3" maf tube
-sti camshaft swap
-sti intake set (tgv delete)

Prelim datalog done..netting just 150whp with max knock reading up to 13degree and max boost 14psi...


Then pre-tune job done for:
-penrite hpr 15w60 oil (im in hot all season summer country with 34-39degree C ambient temp everyday)
-oil filter using oem mazda rxz (shorter filter due to using oil filter sandwich for oil temp and oressure)
-defi zd 10 in 1 gauge for all important engine condition monitoring (too bad egt sensor couldnt be installed during that time)


During tuning (road tune)
-rescale the injector from 440cc to 550cc
-rescale the maf to suite bigger tube
-remove speed cut
-increase rev limit to 8k rpm (just like stock jdm sti)
-then tuner proceed to tune for fuelling only.. (timing left untouched said by the tuner)
-pre tune oil press. Around 6.5-7bar (cruising oil temp 84-94 degree)

** So after tuner done its job tuning on the road** (we wait at the meet site not riding shotgun in the car)

-oil press around 1.5~2bar on idling
-oil temp a little high at 105degree C (probably still hot from tune test run)
-no audible knock or rattling noise
-no leaking coolant or oil underneath also..pretty much spotless..
-tuner presenting the final tune power run (virtual dyno) numbers: [email protected] rpm peak / [email protected] rpm peak
-max boost 14psi

All seems good..

But what caught my guard off are several things like:
-tuner run way high fuel pressure (adjustable fuel reg) at 5.5bar of base pressure
-dyno datalog run started way low at 2000 rpm ending quite high at 7500rpm..

But we proceed our way home after the session....

During cruising back home:
-Oil pressure dropped to 5.5bar (as opposed to our arrival at 6.5~7bar)
-oil temp noticeably higher at over 96degreeC
-some rattling noise occasionally in the engine bay at partial throttle load
-then we decide to do one quick power pull to check or hear anyhing more other than that...doing wot pull in 3rd from cruising with around 3500rpm rolling rev all the way to 6500rpm... Nothing weird/unusual...no audible knock/rattling noise as well during the pull...

Then at cruising speed 65mph the rattling sound appears again and it changing to throttle input...

I pulled my vag-com cable and hook it to obd and log using my phone...
-no knock detected
-afr learning was zero..spotless fuel map!
-afr correction also zero
-no boost leak since maf data and boost/vaccum reading were normal for cruising load area

And while the journey was on toll highways, slowing down for toll gantry, the noise became more audible...immediately we pulled to the side after the toll booth...

Open up the hood.. plays with throttle lightly, rattling noise heard coming from cylinder 1 (or maybe 3)...

Immediately shuts off the engine...

Checks for oil level.. (still full and with that fresh penrite hpr 15w60)

Wait the engine to cools down... Check again the dipstick.. then the metallic glitters appear on the dipstick...

So.. onto the flatbed truck she goes...

While the car still in the garage unopened...

Im thinking what is the root cause possibility...
1- over revved engine? (Oem rpm limit for jdm wrx ej20 is 7000rpm..tuner changed into 8000rpm..and i personally ask the tuner to turn it down back to 7500rpm)
2- prolonged knock during the beginning of tune? (Knock numbers: 13~10 across rev range)
3- tuner doing pull at too low rpm? (2000rpm when datalog started)
4- tuner didnt pull the timing map and just adding more fuel instead?
5- cracked oil pickup?

What do you guys think?


*Sidenote:
-jdm ecu spec for ignition timing map goes as far as 4x degree of timing in the map area...(the tuner said he left it as it is because no knock appears after the final run..and confirmed by myself when i hook up my vag com cable to check for the noise)
-car was tuned on 93octane fuel (ron97 for me here..no e85 in my region)

Last edited by pomen_GTR; 12-29-2019 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:13 AM   #2256
carlos.danger
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Don't forget but that's almost a 20 year old engine.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:21 AM   #2257
pomen_GTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos.danger View Post
Don't forget but that's almost a 20 year old engine.

Yeah..no denying... But on my sf5 also with same engine and everything..also almost similar mods (mine still on td04L but with external gate and wrx 440cc injector,same sti camshaft, also tgv delete with mild porting) while everything else the same...
Yield 247whp with 257lbft...
And with no tune on it...been running strong for 5years..not always tracked/launched but i always doing street pull everytime i drive

So this caught me off-guard that the big end bearing gave way that quickly...
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:29 PM   #2258
some dude
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Pomen_GTR .. 15w-60 oil? Holy shat that is thick. Just because it's hot outside, the car has a radiator and thermostat. It runs the same temperature as every other car. If it spun a bearing, it might be because you guys had molasses oil in it. Yikes.
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:45 AM   #2259
Waddlz
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15w-60 is way too thick

your oil pressure was high, but high pressure isn't always good. what were your oil temps during pulls? If the oil temp got too high, the oil becomes water and can't protect the bearings.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:57 PM   #2260
pomen_GTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude View Post
Pomen_GTR .. 15w-60 oil? Holy shat that is thick. Just because it's hot outside, the car has a radiator and thermostat. It runs the same temperature as every other car. If it spun a bearing, it might be because you guys had molasses oil in it. Yikes.
I ran the same oil in my forester...but in 10w50 weight.... My oil pressure was too low.. 4bar hot cruising....

Maybe you were correct for the oil being too thick...
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:01 PM   #2261
pomen_GTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
15w-60 is way too thick

your oil pressure was high, but high pressure isn't always good. what were your oil temps during pulls? If the oil temp got too high, the oil becomes water and can't protect the bearings.


Highest temp during the whole tuning session were just 106degree C... Is well in safe region...


But maybe i will just stick to 10w50 and not going for 60 weight oil...

(*Again where i live is summer all season with 36-40degree C mid day temp and 30degree C midnight temp with high humidity 70%... Which is properly hot southeast asian country...)
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Old 01-05-2020, 10:18 AM   #2262
bluesubie
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Default Rod Bearing Failure Nightmares/Stories (One thread to rule them all)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pomen_GTR View Post
Highest temp during the whole tuning session were just 106degree C... Is well in safe region...





But maybe i will just stick to 10w50 and not going for 60 weight oil...



(*Again where i live is summer all season with 36-40degree C mid day temp and 30degree C midnight temp with high humidity 70%... Which is properly hot southeast asian country...)


Regardless of your location you probably donít need anything thicker/stable than a 10W-40 unless you have bearing clearances that spec a 50/60 grade. Heck, even open class rally cars run *only* 15W-50.

Also note that fresh oil isnít always the best since ZDDP takes some time to activate.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:22 AM   #2263
KMsubi
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Default Rod knock in CYL 1 bad bearing and worn rod journal

Hello, I have been working on my daughters 2009 Impreza, SOHC, non-turbo engine. The oil pan had shiny metallic sludge in the oil pan and metal foil completely choking the oil pick up filter. Once the block was pulled apart, I found the number 1 cylinder to have a failed bearing, and the journal was a bit worn due to the failure. Other bearings were not too bad for the 175K they have on them. She has a starvation budget for getting the car running, which is why I was tearing it apart, shop wanted 1200 just to tear down and diagnose.
Questions for the more experienced with Subaru engines:
1) Can these cranks be machined and reused, and if so, how is the market for new bearings of non-standard size?
2) If the number 1 Journal is bad and gets machined, will all the other journals need to be machined to the same specs as #1, or can I used new standard sized bearings on the other 3 good journals and an oversized bearing on the remachined cyl 1 journal?
3) What assembly lube and break-in oil is recommended for these engines?
4) Other helpful suggestions welcome!

Thanks!
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:52 AM   #2264
pomen_GTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMsubi View Post
Hello, I have been working on my daughters 2009 Impreza, SOHC, non-turbo engine. The oil pan had shiny metallic sludge in the oil pan and metal foil completely choking the oil pick up filter. Once the block was pulled apart, I found the number 1 cylinder to have a failed bearing, and the journal was a bit worn due to the failure. Other bearings were not too bad for the 175K they have on them. She has a starvation budget for getting the car running, which is why I was tearing it apart, shop wanted 1200 just to tear down and diagnose.
Questions for the more experienced with Subaru engines:
1) Can these cranks be machined and reused, and if so, how is the market for new bearings of non-standard size?
2) If the number 1 Journal is bad and gets machined, will all the other journals need to be machined to the same specs as #1, or can I used new standard sized bearings on the other 3 good journals and an oversized bearing on the remachined cyl 1 journal?
3) What assembly lube and break-in oil is recommended for these engines?
4) Other helpful suggestions welcome!

Thanks!
For a sohc..it just not really worth it.. u can do rebuild..but cleaning everything, new piston or atleast rings, when u add up everything, it might end up at the price of wrx engine swap...

Or u might want to consider the price of new short block as replacement....

As for oversize bearing to suits reground crank journal and rod journal, its available but just not really recommended.....

Or if u were really-really on tight budget, if the crank can be saved just by polishing the journal and the rod journal bearing clearance on slightly bigger tolerance, just make sure using good oil...or perhaps an 1 grade thicker oil... along giving the engine full cleaning inside out checked for debris...
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:01 AM   #2265
KMsubi
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Default Rod knock in CYL 1 bad bearing and worn rod journal

Thanks for the input POMEN_GTR! I think the crank may have lost a bit too much material, but I have only eye-balled it, no measurements yet. My Brother-in-law is an engine tuner and I sent him pics of the parts and he thinks "that crank is toast". Bummer, because a used crank is even 300 bucks or more and we don't have access to a good used parts supply here in our part of Alaska.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:14 PM   #2266
Waddlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMsubi View Post
Hello, I have been working on my daughters 2009 Impreza, SOHC, non-turbo engine. The oil pan had shiny metallic sludge in the oil pan and metal foil completely choking the oil pick up filter. Once the block was pulled apart, I found the number 1 cylinder to have a failed bearing, and the journal was a bit worn due to the failure. Other bearings were not too bad for the 175K they have on them. She has a starvation budget for getting the car running, which is why I was tearing it apart, shop wanted 1200 just to tear down and diagnose.
Questions for the more experienced with Subaru engines:
1) Can these cranks be machined and reused, and if so, how is the market for new bearings of non-standard size?
2) If the number 1 Journal is bad and gets machined, will all the other journals need to be machined to the same specs as #1, or can I used new standard sized bearings on the other 3 good journals and an oversized bearing on the remachined cyl 1 journal?
3) What assembly lube and break-in oil is recommended for these engines?
4) Other helpful suggestions welcome!

Thanks!
I just went through this with an 09 Forester that I bought for cheap as a flipper.

If money is tight, you could order a JDM longblock for ~$1800 and just use the shortblock. Thats not exactly the cheapest option compared to doing an EJ253 rebuild yourself, but its far less than a full rebuild with new parts.

Typically when you spin a bearing you have to replace/Clean:

Oil pan (Can be cleaned, but I'd replace)
Oil pickup( Replace)
oil pump( Absolutely 100% replace)
AVCS/VVT Solenoids(100% replace)
Heads(Clean)

I bought a reman block for $1200, got the heads rebuilt/cleaned, replaced pan/pickup/VVT solenoids and cleaned everything REALLY well.

Total cost was just over $2200 in parts.
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Old 01-10-2020, 02:54 PM   #2267
KMsubi
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Thanks, it sounds like a good way to go, I just think 2200 is out of her range. I will keep looking locally for a used short block or crank. Probably have to get it shipped from Anchorage (850 miles).
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Old 01-11-2020, 03:40 PM   #2268
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Not a nightmare since I bought the car knowing full well it needs a new shortblock, but I have an '09 WRX premium with 86,000 miles and I couldn't pass it up for the price. Was knocking when I bought it and the guy I bought it from just didn't want to sink any money into it, so I got a really good deal. Had the dealer check it out just to be sure and they confirmed what I expected, so I'm about to order a new OEM EJ255 shortblock and everything else I'll need to replace. Going to do it in my garage, which I'm somewhat not looking forward to because it's cold here in Salt Lake City right now and the garage isn't insulated, so I'm working with a space heater. Once I get her back on the road I'll drive her for a bit to break in the new engine, and contemplating flipping it for a nice profit and buying a diesel truck. We'll see how I feel after all is said and done.

This ain't my first rodeo rebuilding a car so I know what I'm getting into, which helps. Fun hobby for me and it's nice to turn a profit in the process.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:26 PM   #2269
SPIMMONS
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Default 2014 WRX Bearing Failure

I have a 2014 WRX that spun 2 bearings in Summer 2019. Flat bedded it to a local dealer and they diagnosed it via tear-down.

No mods at all on the car, completely stock. I've always run the recommended 5W-30 full synthetic, oil changes every 3k miles.

Subaru replaced the motor with 100% no charge to me thankfully. Just got her broken in again (yeah it took 5 months - long story). Did the first oil change at 1k and she sounds good and is loosening up some. Might be changing to 5W-40 oil now that I'm reading this thread though...
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:31 PM   #2270
danger1138
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Thicker weight oil does not = better choice to protect engine.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:19 PM   #2271
windrockdog
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Default starting rebuild

I have never done any major engine work before, but I got my heads cleaned up by a local shop and a new shortblock on the engine stand. The cam caps were cleaned up by the shop as much as they could, but they still have grooves in them.

New head time?

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Old 01-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #2272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windrockdog View Post
I have never done any major engine work before, but I got my heads cleaned up by a local shop and a new shortblock on the engine stand. The cam caps were cleaned up by the shop as much as they could, but they still have grooves in them.

New head time?

Wow.

yeah I wouldn't be using that.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:39 AM   #2273
BlackFighter
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Yha those groves look really bad. Very deep.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:37 PM   #2274
Stephsman05
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Default Ode to the knock

So I bought an 06 OBXT for $1000, should have sent up red flags right? I thought I was buying a car that only needed brakes and an exhaust. Well, did I ever get fooled. So the exhaust was so loud when I saw the car (which was a direct result of previous owner deleting everything but pipe, which should never be done on an automatic imho) that I didnít know the real reason for the cheap sale until I swapped out the exhaust. The dreaded knock reared itís ugly face. Of course that was only one problem, head gasket blown and exhaust was forcing coolant to puke out of the reservoir and so on.

Long story short, I bought a parts car with a known good engine and did the swap. It was an 07 LGT, drove it for 600 kmís to get it home. Drove amazing with no knock. But still had many major changes from 06-07 that I needed to swap intakes over and knock sensor, now have crank but no start. Future thread to come in this category for seeking help on this.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:27 PM   #2275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger1138 View Post
Thicker weight oil does not = better choice to protect engine.
Not by itself at least. Main thing with the types of 5w-40 being recommended (aka Rotella) is that it just doesn't have the additives that cause it to break down and foam up during heavy heat and pressure cycles. If there was a 5w-30 version of it I'm sure it would provide similar results in terms of protection.
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