Toyota Supra: US 4Cyl Imminent

[Scooby-Doode]

255HP 4cylinder Supra means next FT86 will have no more than 225HP, if even that.

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[heavyD]

This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.

[bemani]

Originally Posted by heavyD

This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.

No guarantee that 2022 won't get 400hp and a manual.

[Ultimateone]

Man I would be pissed if I got a 2020, this is nuts

[BeepBoop]

I wouldn't buy a supra till it got the M engine, or a truly bespoke toyotified m3-esq variant of the b58 with it's own engine code. I vote BJZ

[SubaDuba420]

IT's coming:

2021 Toyota Supra Adds 255-HP Turbo Four, and Inline-6 Gains Power
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/

* The 2021 Toyota Supra will have an updated, more powerful version of the turbocharged inline-six. There's a new four-cylinder engine option, too.
* The six now produces 382 horsepower and 368 lb-ft of torque, while the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder makes 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque.
* Expect to see 2021 Supras at dealers in June. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0 and $50,000 for the Supra 3.0.

That 200-pound-lighter, cheaper four-cylinder Supra has a 255-hp turbocharged 2.0-liter that's also sourced from BMW, teamed with an eight-speed automatic transmission. Toyota claims a zero-to-60-mph time of 5.0 seconds—1.2 seconds quicker than the last Toyota 86 we tested. However, the 2.0 does not use the same differential and adaptive dampers as the more powerful 3.0. It'll also have smaller 18-inch wheels, manually adjustable seats, and an audio system with four speakers compared to the 3.0's 10.

The 2021 Supras will arrive at dealerships in June, and now all come standard with the 2020 3.0 Premium's 8.8-inch touchscreen. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0, $50,000 for the Supra 3.0, $55,000 for the Supra 3.0 Premium, and topping out at $57,000 for the Supra A91 Edition.

No mention of 3 pedals

So only a $10-11k Difference between the current BRZ/GT86 price and this new 4Cyl Supra with 255HP... Hhmmm, where will the new BRZ/GT86 slot in price & power wise??

[jimmi]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

IT's coming:

2021 Toyota Supra Adds 255-HP Turbo Four, and Inline-6 Gains Power
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/

* The 2021 Toyota Supra will have an updated, more powerful version of the turbocharged inline-six. There's a new four-cylinder engine option, too.
* The six now produces 382 horsepower and 368 lb-ft of torque, while the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder makes 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque.
* Expect to see 2021 Supras at dealers in June. We are estimating that prices will start at just above $40,000 for the Supra 2.0 and $50,000 for the Supra 3.0.



No mention of 3 pedals

So only a $10-11k Difference between the current BRZ/GT86 price and this new 4Cyl Supra with 255HP... Hhmmm, where will the new BRZ/GT86 slot in price & power wise??

The report was that it would have 255 hp and a turbo engine. Maybe the insiders were confused and it is actually the 4cy Supra.

Honestly at 40k I am not sure. My biggest concern about this car is the BMW engine. Beemers are a money pit once the warranty expires.

[Sid03SVT]

Reports I've read say auto only for both the I-4 and I-6 Supra.

As to the fate of the brz/86 twins, I'd love it if Toyota pulled a GM and let some internal competition ensue camaro/corvette style - NA 2.0 or 2.4 in the entry level and FA2.0DIT or FA2.4DIT for the upper trim in the rebadged Subaru with a 6mt for whatever MSRP makes them the profit they are targeting on a per-unti basis, and the rebadged bimmer gets an entry level turbo I4 and turbo I6 in the upper trim for the 40k and 50k MSRP. There would still be separation in other ways, the 86 is the raw performance oriented 6mt only version (at least for the DIT), the Supra is the Grand Tourer with more power and luxury, a slush box makes sense in that case (especially since they aren't really slushy anymore).

However, that would be a pretty big risk for Toyota in today's market where sports cars, and two doors in general, don't sell that well; but if they are trying to get their performance groove back it's a viable option.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Reports I've read say auto only for both the I-4 and I-6 Supra.

Europe is getting AT only for the I-4.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by bemani

No guarantee that 2022 won't get 400hp and a manual.

Get ready for a GT-R like price and power upgrade ride.

[dwf137]

2nd year higher hp is kinda like what Subaru did with the 2008/2009 WRX. Those who bought a 2008 got royally screwed. And then the early 2009 adopters got engines with crappy bearings... I managed to pick up a late build 2009 and lucked out.

Originally Posted by jimmi

Honestly at 40k I am not sure. My biggest concern about this car is the BMW engine. Beemers are a money pit once the warranty expires.

It's not the drivetrain that fails, it's the other accessory crap. At least that's been the experience I've seen, as well as most of what I've read. The engines are stout. But like all german cars, they load it up with other stuff that's complicated and eventually fails. This one being a collab with toyota, I'd have a little more confidence, but maybe not as much as if it were a pure toyota.

Although I'll caveat that and say that my old mcs engine which was a bmw/puegeot collaboration was a complete clusterF. But I blame that more on puegeot than bmw.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by Ultimateone

Man I would be pissed if I got a 2020, this is nuts

Not really. The damn thing didn't take off like they wanted it to. Sales weren't there. So they are pouring some kerosene on the fire.

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by Pre

Not really. The damn thing didn't take off like they wanted it to. Sales weren't there. So they are pouring some kerosene on the fire.

So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?

[WRXnick16]

Originally Posted by heavyD

This is why it never pays to be an early adopter. The 2021 model also gets the higher output 382 HP variant of the B58, revised suspension, steering, and all models get an 8.8" infotainment screen instead of the 6.5" screen.

At first I figured they were just rating the engine closer to the actual output since dynos had shown that the 2020 was underrated. But it looks like the engine is receiving at least a couple upgrades: "revised dual-branch exhaust manifold with 6 ports instead of to improve heat management, new piston design to decrease compression from 11:1 to 10.2:1 to withstand more boost". And retuned power steering, stability control, active dampers, and rear diff, aluminum strut tower braces, etc.

I wonder what the price increase will be.. it seems like Toyota was already having some difficulty selling the Supra at its current price.

[subyski]

382-HP 2021 Toyota Supra Not Coming To Europe Due To Emissions Laws

The Supra in Europe keeps the 335 hp output.

https://www.motor1.com/news/398706/t...pgrade-europe/

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?

I don't... it's the same response Subaru had to the 2008 wrx. Lackluster sales, insert some go fast.

[bemani]

By the time the 2.0 comes out, the MY2020 will probably drop to that same price. Who's going to buy those 2020s now?

[subyski]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I don't... it's the same response Subaru had to the 2008 wrx. Lackluster sales, insert some go fast.

Part of Subaru's response was how soft the 08 WRX became. The USDM market didn't want that and people complained. Sales were low because it was recession period. Subaru JDM wanted a comfort vehicle hence why it was a S-GT in its home market.

I don't think people complain about the Supra power as it obviously put out performance numbers that suggest it made more power than advertised. Toyota is "responding" to their plan and that means releasing revisions every year whether it's power, suspension, content, etc. I'm afraid that'll just mean higher prices along the way.

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

So you think this is in response to the market and wasn't planned all along?

It absolutely was planned - they even stated this publicly, lol.
They said to expect numerous power and performance upgrades as the model years progress. I remember commenting that is sounds like another GT-R setup.
That’s why they chose the B58 - tons of headroom to grow with simple tunes.
Crazy beefy, underrated motors.

No buyers should be surprised by this.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by subyski

382-HP 2021 Toyota Supra Not Coming To Europe Due To Emissions Laws

The Supra in Europe keeps the 335 hp output.

https://www.motor1.com/news/398706/t...pgrade-europe/

Our Z4 gets 380 hp spec and Europe gets the 340 hp version. So makes sense the Supra won't get the bump either.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

It absolutely was planned - they even stated this publicly, lol.
They said to expect numerous power and performance upgrades as the model years progress. I remember commenting that is sounds like another GT-R setup.
That’s why they chose the B58 - tons of headroom to grow with simple tunes.
Crazy beefy, underrated motors.

No buyers should be surprised by this.

Yeah, they announced prior to launch that each succeeding year or whatever would receive more power / upgrades. The 4 banger was already planned too.

Don’t be surprised that with every year they make more power, it cost more. I honestly don’t think that throwing more power at it will really drive much more if any sales volume.

[heavyD]

Originally Posted by WRXnick16

At first I figured they were just rating the engine closer to the actual output since dynos had shown that the 2020 was underrated. But it looks like the engine is receiving at least a couple upgrades: "revised dual-branch exhaust manifold with 6 ports instead of to improve heat management, new piston design to decrease compression from 11:1 to 10.2:1 to withstand more boost". And retuned power steering, stability control, active dampers, and rear diff, aluminum strut tower braces, etc.

I wonder what the price increase will be.. it seems like Toyota was already having some difficulty selling the Supra at its current price.

The engines actually have different codes (B38B30B vs B58B30C) so there are definitely some mechanical variances. Supra already is a bit of an overachiever so it will be interesting to see the timed performance of the 2021 models as even modest increases in straight line speed should put it in some pretty elite company.

[oichan]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

No mention of 3 pedals

This is so retarded. Toyoda's Supra introduction to the world was he wanted to bring back the pure sports car.. and introduced it with an AT. Then a 4 banger no one asked for and no mention of MT.

SKIP

Probably going to get me a new 718.

[White out]

Nice to see relevant improvements throughout the lineup.

[Dex]

I know people, me included, hate it when people just link drop for articles but here is one explaining why we still don't have a manual: https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-...-transmission/