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Old 02-13-2020, 11:05 AM   #851
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This article mentions that the American STI will retain the EJ25...
lol, I read over that and thought they were talking about the current STI. How ugly would that be? That would be E36 M3 level disappointment. Worse really.

Also I foresee this thread being locked by end of the day now.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:07 AM   #852
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lol, I read over that and thought they were talking about the current STI. How ugly would that be? That would be E36 M3 level disappointment. Worse really.
Wait, what?

While we didn't get the euro engine, that car was plenty quick for its time and still awesome to this day. Disappointment?

And that engine was at least "new"...it wasn't like the E36 carried over a 20+ year old four banger.

And with comments like that, it will be locked.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:22 AM   #853
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Wait, what?

While we didn't get the euro engine, that car was plenty quick for its time and still awesome to this day. Disappointment?

And that engine was at least "new"...it wasn't like the E36 carried over a 20+ year old four banger.

And with comments like that, it will be locked.
I'm totally fine with people defending the NA E36 M3 as a great car - it was. Not sure how you could say getting shorted 70 or 80 horsepower (in 1995, when that was a massive number!) is anything but disappointing
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:55 AM   #854
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Forget grain of salt ... I'm taking this report with a whole Cargill mine.

When I ran the domain through Norton Safe Web--as I do before visiting any unfamiliar site or one that trips my spidey senses--it came up "untested" (a.k.a. unknown) and showed it being based in the Netherlands, yet the page is in Chinese (pre-Chrome translation).

So, lots of things that don't exactly scream "reputable source," together with the fact that the details strain credulity. 400+ HP? Keeping the EJ even longer? And the drawings just look like somebody took the current Impreza, current STI, and new Levorg, and made a mashup of the three.

Between that and all the other conflicting rumors of the last few years, I would not take any of this seriously until/unless it's officially confirmed. Yesterday's AU/NZ articles seemed a lot more credible, but even those didn't say much about the STI or the North American market.

I did get a kick out of "CARLINK" being misspelled as "CARKINK" in one paragraph. Hey, whatever works for you.

Think I'll go run an antivirus scan now
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:00 PM   #855
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Hey if goempie posts it, it's legit

At least isn't Torque News
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:40 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
I'm totally fine with people defending the NA E36 M3 as a great car - it was. Not sure how you could say getting shorted 70 or 80 horsepower (in 1995, when that was a massive number!) is anything but disappointing
Hey now, it was more like 40-45. The '95 vanos euro motor only had 286, and less low-mid range grunt. It's closer than you think.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:48 PM   #857
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This article mentions that the American STI will retain the EJ25...
That's the most believable out of any of the "rumors". The WRX got the FA 5 years ago, but the STI didnt. No reason to believe that the STI is going to get a new engine just because the WRX is getting 2. And think about it...with 2 new engines in the WRX that would bring the total of different engines the WRX has had to FIVE since the WRX has been sold here in the U.S versus the STI's …. ONE...Why would that change now??

More likely the STI keeps the EJ257 with further refinements before all the subarus get electric motor supplementation. Why spend more money on development for a totally new motor (when those options will be available in the other models in the lineup), on the car that sells the least units and is a niche car, and have to recertify it all over again..after just spending millions to certify a "new STI model" for the U.S. Makes more sense they will just put that money towards developing the current STI drivetrain and improve the performance.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:21 PM   #858
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^ because with the STI getting updates last all the time, it will get electrification last. We're looking at up-to a decade by their hints of their electification timeline. That means years to come of having an ICE performance car. I don't think they'll be able to continue with the EJ if they want to continuing selling the STI or re-introduce it to Europe.

Using the FA24 will require a recert, but I think its cost is minimal considering how much they'll save on spreading FA24 costs across the lineup leading to quicker ROI, and having only one performance engine to produce/maintain. They could also just stick the WRX with the FA20 from now on, and the STI on FA24 to differentiate it. They'd be able to re-coup FA20 costs this way too. The WRX could get current STI power, and the STI can get its overdue power bump.

The alternate scenario i can possibly see is that the FA24 is kept for their turbo "normal" cars, and the FA20 for the performance cars: the WRX, STI and maaayyybe the rumoured turbo BRZ/86? Though this one is unlikely, imo.

Last edited by littledrummerboy; 02-13-2020 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:34 PM   #859
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^ because with the STI getting updates last all the time, it will get electrification last. We're looking at up-to a decade by their hints of their electification timeline. That means years to come of having an ICE performance car. I don't think they'll be able to continue with the EJ if they want to continuing selling the STI or re-introduce it to Europe.

Using the FA24 will require a recert, but I think its cost is minimal considering how much they'll save on spreading FA24 costs across the lineup leading to quicker ROI, and having only one performance engine to produce/maintain. They could also just stick the WRX with the FA20 from now on, and the STI on FA24 to differentiate it. They'd be able to re-coup FA20 costs this way too. The WRX could get current STI power, and the STI can get its overdue power bump.

The alternate scenario i can possibly see is that the FA24 is kept for their turbo "normal" cars, and the FA20 for the performance cars: the WRX, STI and maaayyybe the rumoured turbo BRZ/86? Though this one is unlikely, imo.
good points and well written. My only theory on the STI though would be too look at what other manufacturers are doing with their flagship performance cars/suvs. Ferrari and Porsche's flagship cars are electrified, Ford is making an all electric Mustang crossover, and an all Electric F150, Audi etc. etc...

So in the case of the STI getting updates last...I dont think that will necessarily apply with the implementation of electric motors such that as the flagship car of the model line up and being the performance marque, electric motors would bring about an ENORMOUS performance increase. Just my theory on the matter.

I agree that 10 years is a logical timeframe, but it could be as early as 5 which means any new engines are only going to be out for 3 years before the changes. Its possible. Technology is accelerating exponentially..not in a straight line which makes it difficult to realize how fast things can happen.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:36 PM   #860
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While technology is advancing exponentially, costs still need to be put in check. Cars are and continue to get expensive.

While 10 years can be logical, EVs won't replace the ICE in Subaru's in 5 years. Small Subaru needs a lot of help, most likely Toyota to meet that arbitrary date.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:48 PM   #861
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good points and well written. My only theory on the STI though would be too look at what other manufacturers are doing with their flagship performance cars/suvs. Ferrari and Porsche's flagship cars are electrified, Ford is making an all electric Mustang crossover, and an all Electric F150, Audi etc. etc...

So in the case of the STI getting updates last...I dont think that will necessarily apply with the implementation of electric motors such that as the flagship car of the model line up and being the performance marque, electric motors would bring about an ENORMOUS performance increase. Just my theory on the matter.

I agree that 10 years is a logical timeframe, but it could be as early as 5 which means any new engines are only going to be out for 3 years before the changes. Its possible. Technology is accelerating exponentially..not in a straight line which makes it difficult to realize how fast things can happen.
I'm just going by how focused Subaru has been on their biggest selling models getting the new stuff first. They really seem adverse to spending without a clear way to recoup costs. With the STI a small-seller I don't see how they'd do it.

They also said a "strong hybrid" later this decade, so that's going to be a people-mover imo. It's the only way it could make sense cost-wise.

It's clear we're all chomping at the bit for movement with Subaru -- time will tell I guess.

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While technology is advancing exponentially, costs still need to be put in check. Cars are and continue to get expensive.

While 10 years can be logical, EVs won't replace the ICE in Subaru's in 5 years. Small Subaru needs a lot of help, most likely Toyota to meet that arbitrary date.
Oh no, definitely won't. The timelines they stated said 40% all-electric by 2030 which is why I was saying STI could very well get a new engine and keep it for 10 years.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:02 PM   #862
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Oh I prays to the car gerds Subaru keeps the EJ going in our STI while Japan gets some 400 hp monster FA. Sweet sweet golden showers.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:48 PM   #863
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Hey if goempie posts it, it's legit

At least isn't Torque News
You bet! As Subaru fan i read everything i van from around the world. I read here some sceptic but a lot of info comes from the australian, new Zealand and Britisch Subaru PR en product placement people.
I Found the article from maleisia in my facebook feed from a dutch enthousiast.
Look, stop moning. You Will get the wrx and sti. We, over in Europe we get nothing. Coming avarage 95g CO2 rule we will be glad Subaru stays in europe
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:04 PM   #864
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Imagine the 1.8 DIT in the Crosstrek or Impreza Sport
Nope. These cars sip gas. The 1.8 DIT would have to get better than 30mpg AND run on regular (not premium) That's one of the draws to the car. It's peppy enough, gets out of its own way, and... does well on gas with the AWD penalty.

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Old 02-13-2020, 05:05 PM   #865
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That's an EVO profile.

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Old 02-13-2020, 06:04 PM   #866
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^ because with the STI getting updates last all the time, it will get electrification last. We're looking at up-to a decade by their hints of their electification timeline. That means years to come of having an ICE performance car. I don't think they'll be able to continue with the EJ if they want to continuing selling the STI or re-introduce it to Europe.

Using the FA24 will require a recert, but I think its cost is minimal considering how much they'll save on spreading FA24 costs across the lineup leading to quicker ROI, and having only one performance engine to produce/maintain. They could also just stick the WRX with the FA20 from now on, and the STI on FA24 to differentiate it. They'd be able to re-coup FA20 costs this way too. The WRX could get current STI power, and the STI can get its overdue power bump.

The alternate scenario i can possibly see is that the FA24 is kept for their turbo "normal" cars, and the FA20 for the performance cars: the WRX, STI and maaayyybe the rumoured turbo BRZ/86? Though this one is unlikely, imo.

Considering the move to SGP requires a recert anyway......
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:55 PM   #867
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Nope. These cars sip gas. The 1.8 DIT would have to get better than 30mpg AND run on regular (not premium) That's one of the draws to the car. It's peppy enough, gets out of its own way, and... does well on gas with the AWD penalty.

--kC
Don't FA20DIT and FA24DIT run on regular?
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:38 PM   #868
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Don't FA20DIT and FA24DIT run on regular?


Depends on the tune. Subaru specs regular for the fa20 in the 14-18 FXT with a disclaimer it runs better in premium and produces more power. In the 15+ WRX it calls for premium and makes more power as a result. I haven't read the manual for the Ascent or new XTs with fa24, but I'm sure it's the same can use regular, but will get a bump in performance with premium. The stock tune pulls timing like crazy on regular.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:57 PM   #869
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So I just looked it up and 2015 WRX can use 87 octane.

My point was that any new turbo engine that Subaru produces seems to be tuned for 87, so the 1.6/1.8 DIT should be fine too.

It will be interesting if the STI gets the same treatment.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:15 PM   #870
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Considering the move to SGP requires a recert anyway......
Right it’ll need it anyway.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:33 PM   #871
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there was an interview video with an STI engineer right after the 2015 STI and WRX were introduced where he addressed complaints that the STI didnt get equal length headers like the new 2.0 in the WRX, let alone a completely new engine at that time with greater horsepower,,and his answer was that it was too expensive to retool a new header for the EJ257, and that instead, of a new engine electric motors could be installed on the front or rear axles.....so they have been thinking about this for awhile. I'll see if I can find the video and link it.

It wouldnt be hard to do relative to an entire electric car...so when they say that they want 40% electric by a certain date, that doesnt mean that they aren't going to implement electric motor supplementation over the next few years.

I'm not convinced that the STI isnt going to be a totally separate model from the SGP...they just certified the S209 as a model from a seperate company. So much speculation going on...one theory is as good as the other here until something is announced officially for the STI.

I think this is also probably what is behind Toyota being given a bigger stake in Subaru....Toyota has had the prius for awhile so they have the electric motor engineering already in place for Subaru to draw from. They could put an extra 60 horsepower at the front or rear axle with this tech....and at least as much additional torque and this is what the Subaru engineer was speaking too in 2015....he sure sounded like he was speaking from the knowledge that the next drivetrain put in the STI was going to have this supplementation.

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 02-14-2020 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:01 PM   #872
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I haven't read the manual for the Ascent or new XTs with fa24, but I'm sure it's the same can use regular, but will get a bump in performance with premium. The stock tune pulls timing like crazy on regular.
No. The FA24DIT in the XTs and Ascent was specifically designed/tuned to run 87 and ONLY 87 octane. Running anything higher offers absolutely ZERO difference in performance. COBB verified this after much testing. Running anything higher than 87 is like flushing money down the ****ter.
COBB’s 87oct AP OTS map, however, is dynamic and CAN take advantage of higher octane gas.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:43 AM   #873
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No. The FA24DIT in the XTs and Ascent was specifically designed/tuned to run 87 and ONLY 87 octane. Running anything higher offers absolutely ZERO difference in performance. COBB verified this after much testing. Running anything higher than 87 is like flushing money down the ****ter.
COBB’s 87oct AP OTS map, however, is dynamic and CAN take advantage of higher octane gas.
That's good info that 87 will give you optimal performance and mpg in stock tune.

It does give a lot of hope for a hi-po version of the FA24 with a different tune and 91/93 octane.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:32 PM   #874
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also consider how the market has changed since the 2015 M/Y introduction, (when Subaru announced they are going to make the U.S the primary market for STI cars and offerings/development), to illustrate how fast technology is evolving and influencing the industry.

I Read a stat this week that states more U.S car buyers are purchasing electric cars than they are manual transmission equipped cars. I dont think that was the case in 2015 when Subaru had that press conference about STI offerings in the U.S.

Seeing that the STI has been catering to the U.S market and focusing on the U.S market this HAS to be something they are paying very close attention too and must be aware of it. Just some food for thought.

More U.S car buyers are buying electric cars vs cars with manual transmissions. This certainly is going to influence their decisions for any new drivetrain in the STI over the next 5 years.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:42 PM   #875
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also consider how the market has changed since the 2015 M/Y introduction, (when Subaru announced they are going to make the U.S the primary market for STI cars and offerings/development), to illustrate how fast technology is evolving and influencing the industry.

I Read a stat this week that states more U.S car buyers are purchasing electric cars than they are manual transmission equipped cars. I dont think that was the case in 2015 when Subaru had that press conference about STI offerings in the U.S.

Seeing that the STI has been catering to the U.S market and focusing on the U.S market this HAS to be something they are paying very close attention too and must be aware of it. Just some food for thought.

More U.S car buyers are buying electric cars vs cars with manual transmissions. This certainly is going to influence their decisions for any new drivetrain in the STI over the next 5 years.
2.4 turbo and two motors could be interesting. instant torque before the turbo spools up should fight the turbo lag
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