Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday August 11, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Newbies & FAQs

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2020, 05:41 PM   #1
DegNY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226576
Join Date: Oct 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Garnerville, NY
Vehicle:
2019 STI
WRB

Default Dealer hit boost when in for brake work

Hey guys,


So I took my 2019 sti in to the dealer to get the brakes looked at because I feel they are just beginning to warp (16K miles). I Wanted to get it in the dealer before they get worse or before I put too many miles on it. I took a picture of the boost gauge/odo when I dropped it off at the dealer. Peak boost was at 0.4 PSI. When I got the car back the peak boost was at 16.6 PSI and they drove it 7 miles, as well as told me there's nothing wrong with the brakes.


I am not happy. The car probably sat for a few hours before they looked at it, meaning it was cold when they hit 16.6 PSI. I told them I feel the brakes when pressing the pedal with light, steady pressure. I have a feeling they just went full boost, jammed on the brakes, and said "nope, no problems here."


I want to call them and ask why they let their employees abuse customer cars, but I'm not sure what to expect. Should I ask for like a free oil change? They have lost my trust so I don't know that I want to even take my car back even if they offer something free. Do I tell them whoever drove the car should not be driving customer cars if they can't control their right foot for 7 miles? Should I call SOA?



Any input would be appreciated.


-Dylan
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
DegNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-31-2020, 07:12 PM   #2
lefty o
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 512654
Join Date: Mar 2020
Vehicle:
2019 wrx
red

Default

call them on it. dealership abusing your car is bs. if they dont offer a decent explanation that satisfies you, let SOA know how their dealer treated your car.
lefty o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:14 PM   #3
adam sti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 457414
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

I wouldn't say the dealer was abusing your car..

First of all they have to road test the car to feel pulsating brakes. in order to really see if they are warped you have to get them nice and hot. how do you do that? speed up and slow down. Do you expect them to not hit boost in a car that has a turbo?

"The car probably sat for a few hours before they looked at it, meaning it was cold when they hit 16.6 PSI."
???
just because it sat for a while does not mean when they looked at it they got in it and floored it right off the bat..

also, they said nothing was wrong with the brakes. sounds like they're being honest. if you came in saying you think you need brakes they could have said yup you do, heres the bill, but thats not what they did.
adam sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 08:48 PM   #4
CaptainSlowbaru
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 445600
Join Date: Apr 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rafferty Subaru, PA
Vehicle:
2002 Outback Sport
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam sti View Post
also, they said nothing was wrong with the brakes. sounds like they're being honest. if you came in saying you think you need brakes they could have said yup you do, heres the bill, but thats not what they did.
A 2019 with 16k miles will get a rotor cut under warranty.

Here's my take on this, as a Subaru dealer tech. Our dealer is fairly large, so warranty jobs like this usually go to an hourly kid. That's because a flat-rate tech will only get 1 hour for the job, which isn't a lot. These hourly techs- usually young and inexperienced and lazy- may not have felt like doing the work, but took full advantage of a joy ride in an STi. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they didn't use a dial indicator to check the lateral run-out of the rotors? And they don't know how to reset the max boost.

7 miles is excessive to check for warped rotors. I'd have it figured out in under 2. And even if I couldn't feel any pulsation, I'd still do a rotor cut. I'll fudge numbers for warranty to keep any customer happy.

In my opinion, they blasted around in your car, and didn't even fix it. Bitch to the dealer, and if that doesn't work, bitch to SOA. Either way, I wouldn't go to that dealer anymore.
CaptainSlowbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 02:06 AM   #5
NighthawkSTI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 495630
Join Date: Dec 2018
Default

I would like to see what their "book" tells them about performing a brake test for rotor out of round during the "road test" since an out of round rotor can be measured without a road test. 7 miles is a long ride, and how can you be sure the computer WASTN reset and that it wasnt driven even further than that??

I wouldnt worry about the boost on a cold engine. 16 PSI is no where near an overboost that could damage something. Also when the engine is warming up it will be running richer so chances of a lean pop are very low.
NighthawkSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 11:57 AM   #6
Samurai Jack
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

First of all, rotors rarely physically warp. I really wish people would get a clue and stop calling it that. Brake rotors accumulate brake pad dust and sometimes this bakes on the rotor, creating deposits, which can cause pulsations when applying the brake pedal.

These are easily removed.

You don't really want to know what happens to your car left for service in Dealerships or other service shops.
Most places are pretty good but, as CaptainSlowbaru stated earlier, there are techs who will abuse customer's cars.

I've known Dearlerships who have fired more than one tech when they found out what was going on.

Take it to the Service Manager and then to the Dealership Manager if necessary.
If you do not get satisfaction, then take it to SoA and make sure you give them a full account in writing of everything.

Get the Tech's name who worked on your car.
Get the Service Manager's name.
Get the Dealership Manager's name
Document Day, time, etc.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 12:40 PM   #7
nikau
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 516603
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Australia
Vehicle:
2000 MY00 GC8 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DegNY View Post
Hey guys,


So I took my 2019 sti in to the dealer to get the brakes looked at because I feel they are just beginning to warp (16K miles).

...

Any input would be appreciated.


-Dylan
Not related to your immediate query, but if you have been braking hard don't leave your foot on the brake once you are stopped at the light or wherever, the area under the pads will not cool down as fast as the rest of the disc causing warping.
nikau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 01:31 PM   #8
Unabomber
👏 Big Ron 👏
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
First of all, rotors rarely physically warp. I really wish people would get a clue and stop calling it that. Brake rotors accumulate brake pad dust and sometimes this bakes on the rotor, creating deposits, which can cause pulsations when applying the brake pedal.

These are easily removed.
This is the use case of the rotors being out of round:



95% of us will never see real rotor abuse.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 05:48 PM   #9
DegNY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226576
Join Date: Oct 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Garnerville, NY
Vehicle:
2019 STI
WRB

Default

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. I do not think there is a reason to hit 16.6 psi/wot when looking for a brake problem on a stock car with 16k miles. If it were say, 8 psi I wouldnít care. I will be contacting the dealer tomorrow and Iíll see what the dealership says.
On another note, I am not at all hard in this car. I was commuting 35 miles to work from October through March, and would go days without hitting any boost. So Iím not sure why the brakes will not be perfect. Itís subtle, but definitely something feels off.

Again, thanks for everyoneís input.

-Dylan
DegNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2020, 11:23 PM   #10
NighthawkSTI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 495630
Join Date: Dec 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DegNY View Post
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. I do not think there is a reason to hit 16.6 psi/wot when looking for a brake problem on a stock car with 16k miles.
-Dylan
I would think that as well, but in fairness to the subaru service dept. I still havent seen anyone post the procedure from the "book", that they will follow on the test drive to troubleshoot or verify a safety related component like the brakes. I would be fine with them testing the braking system after working on it in such a way that would include hard acceleration followed by a panic stop/aggressive application of the brakes. So if the hard acceleration you noted on the center stack computer was actually done during a safety test of the brakes under all conditions, I would be fine with that and its possible that it is a procedure that is outlined in a service tech "book".

Of course if they isnpected/worked on the brakes and then took the car to their favorite drive through fast food joint, and were ripping through the gears and launching at every green light then thats different. Its possible they were re "bedding" the pads to the rotors which would involve some quick accelerations up to 60 MPH followed by aggressive braking, a process that is repeated 6 or so times until the brakes get hot, and then the car needs to be driven for at LEAST 15 minutes at a steady speed without hitting the brakes to a full stop, so there are scenarios where what you saw is completely normal. And in that case threatening to sue, over a 16 PSI boost recording is premature.
NighthawkSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2020, 06:48 AM   #11
rtv900
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 428511
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: philadelphia
Vehicle:
2016 STI

Default

I'd say it is unlikely you warped rotors on an STI. Rotors can absolutely warp, but this car has pretty substantial brakes for it's weight, so street driving makes that almost impossible. Probably just need a clean up.

agreed it is annoying somebody went for a 7 mile drive, but you still don't really know the car was abused. Hitting peak boost sure isn't abuse otherwise you couldn't drive the car.
rtv900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2020, 07:02 AM   #12
vinniev
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 409494
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: michigan
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
blue

Default

7 miles to warm up the car. Then hit boost and jab on the brakes.
vinniev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2020, 10:16 AM   #13
Ernest
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45076
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland County, NY
Vehicle:
2004 Stg 2 wagon AT
16 BRZ. Both silver

Default

Re-bed your brakes. This might clean them up and get rid of the pulsating feel.
Ernest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2020, 01:36 PM   #14
CaptainSlowbaru
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 445600
Join Date: Apr 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rafferty Subaru, PA
Vehicle:
2002 Outback Sport
Green

Default Dealer hit boost when in for brake work

Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI
I still havent seen anyone post the procedure from the "book"


Thatís it. Nothing about road test. I will say, a tech ought to road test to verify the complaint, or verify a repair, but 7 miles is completely unnecessary. And there was no repair to verify here, so that makes it worse.
CaptainSlowbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 11:41 AM   #15
Fndragn
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 470845
Join Date: Jul 2017
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2011 Sti
DGM

Default

I learned this lesson already. My dealer won’t road test my car unless I’m with them. They road tested my car and hit max boost on my passenger airbag recall. The car left my wife and daughters stranded a few miles from the dealer. Let’s just say it didn’t end well!
Fndragn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 04:51 PM   #16
Vices
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 398304
Join Date: Aug 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2002 WRX EJ257
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSlowbaru View Post


Thatís it. Nothing about road test. I will say, a tech ought to road test to verify the complaint, or verify a repair, but 7 miles is completely unnecessary. And there was no repair to verify here, so that makes it worse.
This.

OP, call them on it. I don't see any reason to hit high boost on your car either. You can work the brakes hard without a lot of boost but I digress.

To the folks talking about warped rotors, aren't we getting into semantics? I think most folks know that pulsating brake feel is not caused by a change in geometry due to heat but I think everyone says warped rotors due to run out, even if it's only one one side and regardless of the root cause.
Vices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 05:09 PM   #17
Samurai Jack
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vices View Post
To the folks talking about warped rotors, aren't we getting into semantics?
No, people actually think the rotor is physically warped and not created by pad deposits. You haven't read enough posts to see this.

That's mainly because people keep calling them "warped" when they are not.
And then people ask what rotors they should get as replacements because theirs are " warped ".

Perpetuating a myth by constantly using inappropriate terms. Better to educate than go along.

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 08-04-2020 at 05:20 PM.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 05:20 PM   #18
Vices
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 398304
Join Date: Aug 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2002 WRX EJ257
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
No, people actually think the rotor is physically warped and not created by pad deposits. You haven't read enough posts to see this.

That's mainly because people keep calling them "warped" when they are not.

Perpetuating a myth by constantly using inappropriate terms. Better to educate than go along.
I hear that, especially the last part. I sent you a PM. I don't want to derail this thread.
Vices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 07:42 PM   #19
CaptainSlowbaru
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 445600
Join Date: Apr 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rafferty Subaru, PA
Vehicle:
2002 Outback Sport
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack
people actually think the rotor is physically warped...

...people keep calling them "warped" when they are not...

...Perpetuating a myth...
Lateral run-out is real. There's a reason the service manual want's it checked.
CaptainSlowbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 08:39 PM   #20
Samurai Jack
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSlowbaru View Post
Lateral run-out is real. There's a reason the service manual want's it checked.
No where did I say it isn't real.

I said that people mistakenly call pad deposits on a rotor as a warped rotor because that myth keep getting perpetuated by people who do not know what they are talking about.

Rarely is a street rotor warped unless there is a manufacturing defect.
Beat the crap out of them and it is possible, but then don't complain about it.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 07:31 AM   #21
rtv900
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 428511
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: philadelphia
Vehicle:
2016 STI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

Rarely is a street rotor warped unless there is a manufacturing defect.
Beat the crap out of them and it is possible, but then don't complain about it.
eh, I had an accord where I went up 2 inches in wheel size and I physically warped the front rotors.
I wouldn't call that beating the crap out of them as I drove pretty normally but they clearly couldn't handle the additional load.
And I checked them myself with a dial and they were sure as hell warped.
When I replaced them and put back on the 16" wheels I never had the issue again.

Obviously I went beyond what the rotor was ever designed for but still, going up in wheel size is a fairly normal practice and I wouldn't call it beating on anything.

Plus, you don't have to get something glowing hot to do that. Tons of things can start making a rotor run out. Like floating calipers where the floating pins seize up, which is a classic issue with that crap design, so you end up basically pressing a pad on one side only and eventually ruin the whole system.
rtv900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 09:01 AM   #22
Samurai Jack
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
eh, I had an accord where I went up 2 inches in wheel size and I physically warped the front rotors.
Honda was known to have bad rotors for a while. Those were eventually addressed by Honda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900
Obviously I went beyond what the rotor was ever designed for but still, going up in wheel size is a fairly normal practice and I wouldn't call it beating on anything.
Taking something outside it's designed use is abusive. * HOW * you take it outside it's designed use is a factor to be considered. I really don't see how going up in wheel size alone would result in a physically warped rotor. The wheel and rotor are still bolted to the car in the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900
Plus, you don't have to get something glowing hot to do that. Tons of things can start making a rotor run out. Like floating calipers where the floating pins seize up, which is a classic issue with that crap design, so you end up basically pressing a pad on one side only and eventually ruin the whole system.
I'm sure you know as well as I do that when all these people come in here and start complaining that they have warped rotors, these so-called warped rotors are not physically warped at all, but are the result of brake pad deposits on the rotors.

But, what we continually see, and eventually comes out, is that the rotors were never physically warped and once the pad deposits were removed, magically the rotors were no longer " warped ".

Constantly using the term " warped " for nothing more than pad deposits keeps pushing the myth of warped rotors, as opposed to actual physically warped rotors, which can happen due to a number of factors, but is not a normal occurrence.

Now, back to the OPs original post:
Absolutely no reason for the Dealer / Tech to put a car in high boost just to test the brakes. Just goes bad to bad Techs who get away with beating in Customer's cars, but we already covered that earlier.

Go after the Dealer.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 10:02 AM   #23
rtv900
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 428511
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: philadelphia
Vehicle:
2016 STI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

Taking something outside it's designed use is abusive. * HOW * you take it outside it's designed use is a factor to be considered. I really don't see how going up in wheel size alone would result in a physically warped rotor. The wheel and rotor are still bolted to the car in the same way.
.
well I still wouldn't consider that abuse.
But my theory was the increased wheel mass and higher inertia due to the larger diameter was a heavier load for the brake to stop, just like the affect bigger heavier wheels have on acceleration.

Obviously I can't be positive that was the culprit but it never happened after that and I put 280k on the car.
rtv900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 10:20 AM   #24
Samurai Jack
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
well I still wouldn't consider that abuse.
But my theory was the increased wheel mass and higher inertia due to the larger diameter was a heavier load for the brake to stop, just like the affect bigger heavier wheels have on acceleration.

Obviously I can't be positive that was the culprit but it never happened after that and I put 280k on the car.
I'm not saying that putting a larger wheel than OEM on a car, ie; going from a 16" wheel to an 18" wheel = abuse of a rotor.

My bet goes back to manufacturing defect of said rotors. This was a known Honda thing for a couple of years.

Same thing would go for those who buy cheap rotors to save money. Cheap rotors are cheap for a reason
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.