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Old 09-14-2020, 03:24 PM   #476
arghx7
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don't ascribe to malice or negligence what is most likely the result of massive red tape and bureaucracy
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:01 PM   #477
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Does the Z4 not have the same issue?
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:09 PM   #478
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Doubt it.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:14 PM   #479
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I assumed they would have shared costs of development for these types of basic design challenges. Convertibles made into hardtops specifically. But who cares is a better answer.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:29 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
that's not how cars are designed though unless you have some guy like Elon saying "here's a problem, go fix it" . there's a lot of bureaucracy for things that seem so simple. such and such department has to submit a voice of the customer report, which goes to so and so's group who proposes a new engineering target, and then a countermeasure proposal has to be made, which then has to be handed off to program management, who needs to talk to purchasing to confirm they can make a change order, and then there's a design note release, a new waterfall chart is made that the plant has to approval, etc. and since the Supra is shared with BMW there's like a parallel level of approvals and meetings and stuff.

and then when it's all over a lessons learned report is generated that nobody reads.
Ahhhh, the good ole' lessons learned report. So true
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:42 PM   #481
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I bet the Supra has way lower projected volumes than the Z4 so nobody cares. In my experience, low volume programs get no resources, even if they are "prestige" products.

Think about it, the Supra is basically the Fiat 124 Spider of the Z4. Remember the Fiata? The Fiat version of the ND Miata. It's a reskin platform share job with lower volumes. Toyota cares waaaaay more about the next Rav4 or Highlander than the Supra.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:45 PM   #482
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Does the Fiata have wind buffeting issues too?
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:53 PM   #483
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Quote:
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Does the Z4 not have the same issue?
Nope!


And here knighthawk things Toyota could design and manufacture a better engine and trans than what BMW is providing while.
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Old 09-14-2020, 05:02 PM   #484
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I'm actually surprised by this. That's why I'm asking questions. And I just looked up sales figures and the Supra handily outsells the the Z4, so it begs why more work didn't go into something like this. Especially being the Supra was a big deal in the making. Designing convertibles and derivative coupes to not exhibit these traits has got to be difficult and likely why BMW needed Toyota $$ to bother making another generation. So the Z4 having issues like this would make far more sense to me. I understand it's not a big deal, but unexpected for sure. Did Toyoda not drive this thing extensively around tracks before giving the thumbs up? Just odd. But yeah, BMW not needed. LOL HA HA
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Old 09-14-2020, 06:21 PM   #485
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I bet the Supra has way lower projected volumes than the Z4 so nobody cares. In my experience, low volume programs get no resources, even if they are "prestige" products.
The Supra has outsold the Z4 to date.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:29 AM   #486
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The Supra has outsold the Z4 to date.
globally or in the US?

Also, does the right hand drive version of the Supra have this issue?
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:21 AM   #487
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Also, does the right hand drive version of the Supra have this issue?

Seriously?
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:58 AM   #488
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I saw a Z4 driven by some lady over the weekend. I've yet to see another Supra in my area.

I can't believe my Supra is even remotely related to that ugly car. Thing looked huge too for some reason. No thanks. I'd get a base Boxster if vert in that price range.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:43 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
globally or in the US?

Also, does the right hand drive version of the Supra have this issue?
Globally the Z4 outsold the Supra by 57 units in 2019. However it was released in March and the Supra in June so sales per month were heavily in favor of the Supra after it's release and I believe it's continued in 2020.

https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-supr...ter%20the%20Z4.

I would expect the gap to get larger with the 2021 changes to the Supra.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:43 PM   #490
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Hope to get my indoor car cover soon. Not that I'd be using it all the time through hibernation, but when I have contractors at my house I don't like my cars visible to them.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:42 PM   #491
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and then when it's all over a lessons learned report is generated that nobody reads.
As an engineer, I approve of this comment
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:08 PM   #492
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Buffeting is a minor issue, hardly worth the expenditure to revalidate the mirror assembly unless there was a design refresh planned and a quick way to include the revision. This is common sense.

Thus you don't see me (an actual owner of the car that experienced wind buffeting) getting all twisted up and crying about it. It's an easy fix if aftermarket, who cares. You can also decide to drive with the window closed or cracked open without the buffeting plate with no ill effect.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:35 PM   #493
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Quote:
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Buffeting is a minor issue, hardly worth the expenditure to revalidate the mirror assembly unless there was a design refresh planned and a quick way to include the revision. This is common sense.

Thus you don't see me (an actual owner of the car that experienced wind buffeting) getting all twisted up and crying about it. It's an easy fix if aftermarket, who cares. You can also decide to drive with the window closed or cracked open without the buffeting plate with no ill effect.
Here's the thing(s).

The supra is a "halo" car that was put on a pedestal by the prior generation. Majority were let down by the final product and not because of the BMW engine but the exterior design ( I think it looks damn good now that it's grown on me).

The harmonics created have created enough of an issue to gather serious attention on the forums and publication. Toyota could simply offer a free baffle / diffuser that looks good and is function but instead, they kick the bucket down and release a 2021 gen vehicle.

Its piss poor customer service, penny pinching and general "f you, buy an after market part to fix an issue that should be there."

You can search the country and see a lot of year 1 releases still sitting on the lot. This doesn't help. To ignore it and release a 2nd year model is just plain stupid.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:00 PM   #494
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Quote:
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Buffeting is a minor issue, hardly worth the expenditure to revalidate the mirror assembly unless there was a design refresh planned and a quick way to include the revision. This is common sense.

Thus you don't see me (an actual owner of the car that experienced wind buffeting) getting all twisted up and crying about it. It's an easy fix if aftermarket, who cares. You can also decide to drive with the window closed or cracked open without the buffeting plate with no ill effect.
You don't HPDE do you.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:09 PM   #495
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You don't HPDE do you.
No, he doesn't
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:43 PM   #496
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You don't HPDE do you.


My last HPDE it was snowing. There was one guy in the group that started complaining about windows down. One of the instructors said “use the heater” and the rest of us laughed.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:21 PM   #497
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I don’t know about your area but within 100 miles of me there’s more 21 models available than the 20’s. Of those 20’s I would guess they are sitting at dealerships that still think they’re sitting on a golden goose judging by the ads. These cars are moving when dealers get down to the $50k mark.
I’m seeing one around my town now too. Actually, more like hearing it. He races down the adjacent street jumping on and off the gas creating pops and bangs. *******. Right thru a residential area.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:24 PM   #498
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I don’t know about your area but within 100 miles of me there’s more 21 models available than the 20’s. Of those 20’s I would guess they are sitting at dealerships that still think they’re sitting on a golden goose judging by the ads. These cars are moving when dealers get down to the $50k mark.
I’m seeing one around my town now too. Actually, more like hearing it. He races down the adjacent street jumping on and off the gas creating pops and bangs. *******. Right thru a residential area.
Pops and bangs are so douchey. Is that factory on the Supra, or is it aftermarket? There's a fella who lives near me with a 2-series with a major case of the pops diarrhea farts, his vehicle sounds broken.

I've been seeing a lot of Supras on the freeway but not on the street. Man, I really hope they eventually drop a manual in, I'd really like to grab one down the road. With how short my commute is, I don't ever see myself going automatic, no matter how sporty it feels. I truly love shifting gears and throwing pedals. ****-hell.
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:38 AM   #499
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See the new TT Z with manual as standard. Thank you Nissan. I hope your test drivers drove it with windows down for HPDE. No booming resonance in the cabin they are already a leg up. No big ass Ipad (F U Subaru for that). Looking like what Toyota should have built. Japanese design and built. No buying **** from bmw.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:31 AM   #500
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You don't HPDE do you.
Haha.. Yeah no. No need on the car. I’m still on stock map.. will try Map1 off JB4 before hibernation.
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