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Old 05-03-2021, 04:14 PM   #1
DIY-OnBudget
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Default CVT Flush vs Drain and Fill ?

Hi I have 2013 Impreza with about 50k miles on it.
I was going to drain and fill the CVT myself, but I called the dealer and they said they can do a complete flush. I asked "so this is not a drain and fill then?" The young lady said "no, its a flush".

I go to my appointment and after 4 hours of waiting I finally get my car back and $230 bill. I also brought 2 empty bottles for before and after samples of the fluid, and the advisor said the mechanic would get those, which he did not....

I asked how many quarts did the mechanic use? She said 5. I said there are 13 in this CVT model, so you did a drain and fill then?, , She said she made a mistake, that is all they can do. Then I explained I could have done a drain&fill myself at home faster, why did it take so long? It had to cool (ok) and the mechanic had to relearn the software???

So I have a few questions?

Dealer says if they power flush the CVT fluid out it could damage the CVT...

Doesn't the dealer have the proper tools to flush out all the CVT fluid and do a complete replacement of the fluid instead of leaving 2/3 old fluid in the CVT?

Does anyone do a complete flush /full fluid replacement on the CVT?

Is a drain and fill good enough?

Does a CVT fluid replacement require a software "relearn"?

I have seen a few YouTube videos on flushing the CVT (more than just a D&F), why won't the dealership do a complete flush?

Does anyone have a "Subaru approved CVT flush procedure" doc or Link?

Thank you
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Old 05-03-2021, 04:51 PM   #2
rtv900
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typically just draining autos (yes I know a cvt is different) is fine. It takes WAY more effort to flush them.
You are still replacing a lot of fluid if you just drain it.
You can also drive it for a few weeks and then just do another drain and fill. I've done that before on old autos where it just bothered me. You'll get the majority of it out with two drains and it will look way better.

Keep in mind most car owners NEVER change their auto fluid even once.
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:38 PM   #3
Elbert Bass
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Yup, 5 quarts in a Gen II is drain-n-fill. It was nice of them to do a relearn - if they actually did.
Having worked at a Subaru dealer myself I will say all they probably could do is drain and fill. My dealer would never ponied up for another transmission flush machine for CVT (you can't use your old Dexron/ATF-HP machine). Our MOC dealer would only provide one machine and it was for red fluid.
To be honest with you a CVT transmission does not get as contaminated as old planetary gear set transmission. There are only two clutch/brake in yours. One is always engaged in gear and the other is for reverse. Due to that there is no constant engage/disengage of clutches because there is no constant changing gears. The contamination in ATF is from wear of clutch disc friction material.

Had you been given a sample from your transmission you probably would have accused them of giving you new fluid - I have drained 100,000 mile CVTs and the fluid is just a touch darker than new, with little to no change in smell.
Having said all that a drain and fill won't hurt...
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:40 PM   #4
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Man dealerships use a expensive machine that actually pressurizes system and then sucks out on one end the injects new fluid on the other
Kinda like a machine that recharges your AC system

I would not try DIY
Im sure you could do it, but would not take the chance on a $3k+ Tranny part

I have known not equipped shops trying to change transmission fluid on a CVT tranny
Mechanic did work incorrectly
Shop had to buy owner(Ford) a new transmission bc shop did not have right equipment to perform flush/fluid change correctly

Rtv is right thou
Can change professionally
But
If not acting up, IMO***8230;..if you wait till 100k you will be fine
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:59 PM   #5
DIY-OnBudget
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so you are advising against a diy pressure flush?, but not a drain and fill (per temp and fill specs)
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:01 PM   #6
DIY-OnBudget
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Can you explain what the relearn was for ? The CVT or the entire car?

Last edited by DIY-OnBudget; 05-03-2021 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:48 PM   #7
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBenn View Post
Man dealerships use a expensive machine that actually pressurizes system and then sucks out on one end the injects new fluid on the other
Kinda like a machine that recharges your AC system

I would not try DIY
Im sure you could do it, but would not take the chance on a $3k+ Tranny part

I have known not equipped shops trying to change transmission fluid on a CVT tranny
Mechanic did work incorrectly
Shop had to buy owner(Ford) a new transmission bc shop did not have right equipment to perform flush/fluid change correctly

Rtv is right thou
Can change professionally
But
If not acting up, IMO***8230;..if you wait till 100k you will be fine
Yeah, that plus is a bit - a TR580 CVT for a 13 Impreza is $6200.00
BTW: There are no internal repairs to a Suby CVT except for the valve body, input gear housing, and center differential. You can't even fix the front differential because you have to remove the CVT chain and drums to get into the diff housing.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:18 PM   #8
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although I probably won't do anything else to my cvt at this point, I found this youtube vid, and this guy seems to be on the money, does anyone disagree with this technique?

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Old 05-03-2021, 09:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Yeah, that plus is a bit - a TR580 CVT for a 13 Impreza is $6200.00
BTW: There are no internal repairs to a Suby CVT except for the valve body, input gear housing, and center differential. You can't even fix the front differential because you have to remove the CVT chain and drums to get into the diff housing.
Well said EB.
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:15 PM   #10
AliBenn
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Watched vid

Dunno
Like I said (and im a gear head) can be done
Just do not know if I would risk
One thing I noticed is that utube guys fluid was pretty much black
Is yours same color?

Even my POS 01 Fozzie needed tranny fluid change
Everything I read was drain it, monitor level, and then drain/refill
This is with 200k miles
I did not want to risk me trying to change, causing more damage
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:39 PM   #11
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@AliBenn, good point!!!... I didn't get to see the CVT oil drained out because the mechanic dipped out on the samples.

But I sorta freaked out because I used to buy into the idea that "CVT was a lifetime fluid" but then other Subaru mechanics logically explained to me to change it every approx. 30k (because I am in mostly stop and go traffic, AND it will prolong the CVT life).

You can probably tell I try to follow good service guide lines, I want this car to last as long as possible. But I am glad I took it to the dealership, so if something goes south, they were the only ones that touched the CVT.

TY for all the advice!
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:27 PM   #12
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I called the dealership and the mechanic did actually save samples. My 50K fluid was black! I will post in new thread.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:19 PM   #13
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY-OnBudget View Post
Can you explain what the relearn was for ? The CVT or the entire car?
The relearn is really only required when you replace the TCM, the valve body or the whole transmission. What it does is teach the TCM where the engagement points are for the forward clutch pack, reverse brake, and transfer clutch.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:26 PM   #14
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY-OnBudget View Post
although I probably won't do anything else to my cvt at this point, I found this youtube vid, and this guy seems to be on the money, does anyone disagree with this technique?

Subaru CVT Transmission Fluid Change & Flush Procedure | 2015 Forester Replacement-Fill-Level Check - YouTube
That will work But I would just do a D&F a couple times if I did not have a flush machine available.
On older transmissions that return line from the cooler would feed the lubrication for bearings and bushings. Subaru does not provide hydraulic schematics on CVT transmission so I really don't know if that is the case. I will say that a transmission flush machines remove oil from that outlet but it pumps the fresh oil back in through the return.
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