STi - where NOT to buy (charging over MSRP)

ANZAC_1915 · 03-09-2003, 10:20 AM

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kalex · 03-09-2003, 12:51 PM

Bill Kolb, salesman said 5-10k over MSRP, with a smirk on his face...

RSX2STI · 03-09-2003, 06:03 PM

Austin Subaru and Gillman Subaru of Austin, $5-8k and $3-5k respectivley(yeah right, huh).

solberg wantabee · 03-09-2003, 10:06 PM

Bob Baker Carlsbad, El Cajon, CA. $3000 over.

STi INGER · 03-09-2003, 10:09 PM

Any dealer in the portland metro area. All want 5K+

CloNeGTS · 03-10-2003, 12:55 AM

Hate to say this guys, but that is supply and demand. If you think you're going to go pick an STi off a lot in the first 2-3 months without paying over MSRP, you're nuts.

Now....if you have a deposit down on one like many of us do, then you are dumb to pay over MSRP. I know I've been guaranteed (like many others) MSRP with our sold orders.

RSX2STI · 03-10-2003, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CloNeGTS
Hate to say this guys, but that is supply and demand. If you think you're going to go pick an STi off a lot in the first 2-3 months without paying over MSRP, you're nuts.

Now....if you have a deposit down on one like many of us do, then you are dumb to pay over MSRP. I know I've been guaranteed (like many others) MSRP with our sold orders.

I think most of us know this by now but this post is probably reffering to the dealer who want to take a deposit and still charge over MSRP. I am pretty sure that STI's will be selling for way beyond 5k over if, by any chance, you find a one that isn't reserved(yeah right).

drmosh · 03-10-2003, 03:07 AM

Even if you get it in writing, it's not a binding contract, the dealer can still back out of it, they reserve the right to basically NOT sell you the car, period. Or they'll just sell em all at markup and say yours is not in yet.

This is being done right now with the EVO 8's... people who have WRITTEN MSRP guarantees are getting jacked around.

Bottom line is, I support any list of this kind and I'm tired of hearing the ole "supply and demand" argument, dealers have a right to make money, and we have a right to post their names on a blacklist/boycott list.

jaypride · 03-10-2003, 06:20 AM

Actually we have the right to advertise what they are doing to us and to boycott them. Blacklisting is illegal, you may not want to call it that.

banghado · 03-10-2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Even if you get it in writing, it's not a binding contract, the dealer can still back out of it, they reserve the right to basically NOT sell you the car, period.

Not true on both counts. An oral agreement is, in almost all states, binding, and whether they can back out depends on what your agreement says.

STR8OUT · 03-10-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by banghado

Not true on both counts. An oral agreement is, in almost all states, binding, and whether they can back out depends on what your agreement says.

Im pretty damn sure this wont hold up (in court i guess) unless your were wearing a wire. Im sure most of us dont when we talk to our dealers but it would be pretty funny to bust out a tape of him agreeing on a price with you

jaypride · 03-10-2003, 03:58 PM

I just got this email reply from Bill Kolb Subaru in New York
"
Thats right. As much as we want, and good luck getting on a list to find one, then when you can't find one, I'll have it.

-------Original Message ------
So you'll be marking them up pretty much as much as you
feel like that day then? Unless you can do it for MSRP or
less, I will find someone else. Thanks,
Jay
"
This after telling me they are taking order for "market value" and they are the only dealer in the tri state area getting more than one STI. HA!
They may sell it cheap, who knows, but this guy was an arse.

banghado · 03-10-2003, 04:13 PM

After getting the run-around from my local dealers, I jumped on the subaru web-site, which lets you input your zip code and then search for nearest dealers. I sent the same email to maybe 10 dealers, and it took maybe 10 minutes. I said I wanted an option to purchase a 2004 STI at MSRP, was willing to put down $500 as a fully refundable deposit, wanted to do everything in writing, and wanted the manager to sign our agreement. I got 2 or 3 bites, one of which ultimately worked out. Granted, the dealer is about 2 hours from me.

CloNeGTS · 03-10-2003, 04:36 PM

Well, say what you like guys, but it all depends on your dealer and their code of ethics. Here in the midwest, I've had conversations and overall very healthy communication with my dealer since October or so. Just as he told me the deposit I gave him is refundable, I'll be getting the 2nd STi coming to them for MSRP. And don't forget MSRP is not like they are selling a car for the price they paid for it. MSRP is a healthy profit.

"Sick of the supply and demand BS"????

Wow....ok. Sounds like ignorance. As I said before, if a dealer wants to try and 'strike gold' by price gouging, let them try it. Especially in a market like this, they'll see a huge markup won't sell any cars. If they won't sell the car for MSRP, someone will.

Legal this....legal that. Forget it guys. If they are going to jack you around, go somewhere else. This is the beauty of free enterprise. Find a respectable dealer who will take your standard $500 refundable deposit. If you can't find one, look here. http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuk...iewtopic&t=491

Without a deposit down and a sold order, I don't find any of these numbers to be outrageous. That's just the way it goes. Get in line or pay the price.

N10S · 03-10-2003, 07:19 PM

Its unfortunate, but many times unless you have a very healthy long-term relatonship with the owners of a dealership, you are not going to be able to buy a limited production vehicle without seeing some kind of mark-up above MSRP.

Even with a great relationship you typically won't get a better price than MSRP on these kinds of vehicles. The dealerships that sell to everyone at MSRP are the ones with lists 20+ deep typically.

Jaxx · 03-11-2003, 11:04 AM

stay away from any larry miller dealer ship in idaho utah or colorado the ad adm to EVERY car they sell (yeah even the 9000 civic)

no there is never a reason to pay thousands of $ for adm when you can get an airplace ticket any where in the country for under 400

Sothoth · 03-11-2003, 08:02 PM

Dick Hannah Subaru in Clark County (just north of Portland OR, but in WA State). They are certainly living up to Mr. Hannah's first name. Currently, their Mitsu dealership is charging $10,000 over MSRP on the Evo.

According to two different sales people (not a third one, as he didn't know what an STi was.

Yes, I'm serious), the same mark-up is definite on an STi.

I used to live near Santa Rosa (CA), and Prestige Imports treated me like gold.

Dick Hannah? Treats me like tin.

I'm seriously considering an M3 at MSRP at this point.

Cheers

Sothoth

Sothoth · 03-11-2003, 08:37 PM

Took a leaf out of banghado's book (see above), and emailed every frickin' dealer in WA and OR!!

Dick Hannah is offering $4000 over MSRP.

Capitol Auto Group sent me an email back about ebay prices, and wouldn't even commit to a figure!!

Buh-bye.

tallywacker4g63 · 03-12-2003, 12:12 AM

my local mitsu dealer wouldn't even give me a price on one. they said " the first three we get go to the highest bidder" yeah give them reason to over charge for the car and kill it with high pricing

WRX_Mundi · 03-12-2003, 03:29 AM

Hi Jaxx! You suggest not paying ADM, which is, I assume, Additional Dealer Markup. OK, I've put my order in (not from Larry Miller) and they have written down "MSRP or less". I've decided it would be prudent to get straight exactly what they mean by MSRP -- after all they may decide that $4000 floor mats are necessary and that is a reasonable dealer retail. More likely (I've had this happen before from a Nissan dealer) they will talk about something like a "mandatory" regional advertising charge, usually brought up at the last minute.

What charges should I expect? I assume MSRP from SOA, destination charge, and gas guzzler tax if any. Anything else? Obviously taxes and registration are my responsibility.

I've just been rather surprised in the past at how many "little" things get added at the end which they claim are regular and mandatory (and never mentioned until after many hours of time have been wasted). With the STi I'm sure someone at the dealer (salesperson or other) is going to find it hard to resist trying to tack stuff on -- after all I've waited all this time, and they can say I just didn't accept it and give it to the next person in line -- every employee in the process is going to think, "Heck, he's going to refuse a exclusive $35k car he's been waiting for all this time because of some $300 'undercoating' we'll just pretend we always apply and now he has to eat it or lose it? Besides, he's ripping us off trying to get the car at MSRP anyway..."

STi INGER · 03-12-2003, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sothoth
Took a leaf out of banghado's book (see above), and emailed every frickin' dealer in WA and OR!!

Dick Hannah is offering $4000 over MSRP.

Capitol Auto Group sent me an email back about ebay prices, and wouldn't even commit to a figure!!

Buh-bye.

Let me know what you get back as reponses from the dealers. I have mine in at TS&S in Bend, OR but they didn't take a dep. so they will have every opportunity to screw me. They have been good to friends of mine and I expect the same for me.

Jasonoff · 03-12-2003, 12:33 PM

Ouch that's gotta suck. Must be a US thing. They won't sell over MSRP here!! YEAH Canada

I'm even negotiating for some throwins

addison1062 · 03-12-2003, 04:13 PM

I checked out the three dealer in my area:

Bob Rohrman, $5k markup
Tom Wood Subaru $2500 mark up
Speedway, they claim they will be giving it to me at MSRP, but the guy I had signed the deal with has left. I'm wondering where this is going to leave me and my deposit... So far, they have been great.

Sothoth · 03-13-2003, 01:20 AM

STI INGER

Had around ten responses. I sent emails to everyone except the guy in Seattle that Glenn W is getting his from at MSRP. (I'm on the waiting list for that, but in about a year!!!)

No one has written back in agreement. NO ONE!!

I've had loads of "$4000 over" replies. I've had "wow, look at ebay, the prices are going to be way high", and I've had "why not email me back to talk?" replies.

I asked a simple question. I've yet to get an answer in the affirmative.

Mmmmmm. M3

95MPower · 03-13-2003, 12:33 PM

First off, I will never...ever buy any Subaru product as a result of this bs.

I was screwed by my dealership. I had a deposit holding position 2 for MSRP. I only put the money down on the condition that the car be 1) at MSRP 2) be one of the first three cars delivered. The salemen had a purchase request filled out in my name.

They basically told me the only way I would get a car at MSRP was if no one else was willing to pay more for it. (even though I was on the list with a, binding in Texas, oral agreement for MSRP) I was #2 on the list with a purchase order filled out with my driver's licensed copied, the whole nine yards. I called 2 minutes after press introduction. I have wanted this car for years.

The salesmen denied he ever told me MSRP, but when I revealed that I did not want to car and wasn't going to pursue legal action, he basically admitted he was lying. (i talked to so many people that day...blah..blah) I had told him specifically "do not take my deposit if you are charging 1 cent over MSRP, I will not accept that" and he took the deposit anyway!

He apologized a bunch, won't do any good. They will never get any of my families' business again. He asked me for my family member's names that had purchased cars there so he could go try to get the sales manager to do the deal for sticker. I gave him false names to protect those family members once I rip them them a new one. I explained that "my family buying cars here shouldn't matter, I am a customer you made an agreement with for MSRP, now you are breaking that deal, end of story." I gave him the false names just to see, basically knew it wouldn't do any good.

They are giving me my deposit back, but I'm sure that just b/c that cannot legally take the money and not deliver what they promised. They have to return the deposit as per the Texas attorney general's office and SOA.

This dealership has seriously damaged a very good business relationship. I would advise anyone buying a car there to go elsewhere. Of the family memebers I've told, (3) they have all said they will never go there again. I wonder if the dealer will ever realize the $ they lost on not jacking me on the STi was much less than all the money my family has generated for these jokers.

If anyone else gets screwed by these guys please pm me and I will give you the name of the SOA rep that is researching this issue.

I don't even want the car now. I will buy another brand. Too bad Subaru's dealer network has to ruin the introduction of a lifetime!

Take Care, happy driving, and I hope someone actually gets to enjoy a STi.

03-09-2003, 10:20 AM	#1
ANZAC_1915 Scooby Guru Member#: 456 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Redmond, WA, USA Vehicle: 2008 Forester XT Steel Gray Metallic	Dealers to avoid : charging above MSRP Post your stories here. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

03-10-2003, 03:58 PM	#12
jaypride Scooby Specialist Member#: 33424 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: WMIC Vehicle: 2004 STI Blue/Gold	I just got this email reply from Bill Kolb Subaru in New York " Thats right. As much as we want, and good luck getting on a list to find one, then when you can't find one, I'll have it. -------Original Message ------ So you'll be marking them up pretty much as much as you feel like that day then? Unless you can do it for MSRP or less, I will find someone else. Thanks, Jay " This after telling me they are taking order for "market value" and they are the only dealer in the tri state area getting more than one STI. HA! They may sell it cheap, who knows, but this guy was an arse. Last edited by jaypride; 03-10-2003 at 04:09 PM.

03-13-2003, 12:33 PM	#25
95MPower Scooby Newbie Member#: 21925 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pflugerville, TX	Austin Subaru First off, I will never...ever buy any Subaru product as a result of this bs. I was screwed by my dealership. I had a deposit holding position 2 for MSRP. I only put the money down on the condition that the car be 1) at MSRP 2) be one of the first three cars delivered. The salemen had a purchase request filled out in my name. They basically told me the only way I would get a car at MSRP was if no one else was willing to pay more for it. (even though I was on the list with a, binding in Texas, oral agreement for MSRP) I was #2 on the list with a purchase order filled out with my driver's licensed copied, the whole nine yards. I called 2 minutes after press introduction. I have wanted this car for years. The salesmen denied he ever told me MSRP, but when I revealed that I did not want to car and wasn't going to pursue legal action, he basically admitted he was lying. (i talked to so many people that day...blah..blah) I had told him specifically "do not take my deposit if you are charging 1 cent over MSRP, I will not accept that" and he took the deposit anyway! He apologized a bunch, won't do any good. They will never get any of my families' business again. He asked me for my family member's names that had purchased cars there so he could go try to get the sales manager to do the deal for sticker. I gave him false names to protect those family members once I rip them them a new one. I explained that "my family buying cars here shouldn't matter, I am a customer you made an agreement with for MSRP, now you are breaking that deal, end of story." I gave him the false names just to see, basically knew it wouldn't do any good. They are giving me my deposit back, but I'm sure that just b/c that cannot legally take the money and not deliver what they promised. They have to return the deposit as per the Texas attorney general's office and SOA. This dealership has seriously damaged a very good business relationship. I would advise anyone buying a car there to go elsewhere. Of the family memebers I've told, (3) they have all said they will never go there again. I wonder if the dealer will ever realize the $ they lost on not jacking me on the STi was much less than all the money my family has generated for these jokers. If anyone else gets screwed by these guys please pm me and I will give you the name of the SOA rep that is researching this issue. I don't even want the car now. I will buy another brand. Too bad Subaru's dealer network has to ruin the introduction of a lifetime! Take Care, happy driving, and I hope someone actually gets to enjoy a STi.

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03-09-2003, 06:03 PM	#3
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03-09-2003, 10:09 PM	#5
STi INGER Scooby Newbie Member#: 33468 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi (soon) Black	Any dealer in the portland metro area. All want 5K+

03-10-2003, 12:55 AM	#6
CloNeGTS Scooby Newbie Member#: 23341 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Overland Park, KS Vehicle: 04 Rex STi WRB/Gold	Hate to say this guys, but that is supply and demand. If you think you're going to go pick an STi off a lot in the first 2-3 months without paying over MSRP, you're nuts. Now....if you have a deposit down on one like many of us do, then you are dumb to pay over MSRP. I know I've been guaranteed (like many others) MSRP with our sold orders.

03-10-2003, 03:07 AM	#8
drmosh Scooby Newbie Member#: 2429 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: SoCal Vehicle: 2007 EVORX STi MR Bluish Silver	Even if you get it in writing, it's not a binding contract, the dealer can still back out of it, they reserve the right to basically NOT sell you the car, period. Or they'll just sell em all at markup and say yours is not in yet. This is being done right now with the EVO 8's... people who have WRITTEN MSRP guarantees are getting jacked around. Bottom line is, I support any list of this kind and I'm tired of hearing the ole "supply and demand" argument, dealers have a right to make money, and we have a right to post their names on a blacklist/boycott list.

03-10-2003, 06:20 AM	#9
jaypride Scooby Specialist Member#: 33424 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: WMIC Vehicle: 2004 STI Blue/Gold	Actually we have the right to advertise what they are doing to us and to boycott them. Blacklisting is illegal, you may not want to call it that.

03-10-2003, 04:13 PM	#13
banghado Scooby Newbie Member#: 33152 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Roanoke VA	After getting the run-around from my local dealers, I jumped on the subaru web-site, which lets you input your zip code and then search for nearest dealers. I sent the same email to maybe 10 dealers, and it took maybe 10 minutes. I said I wanted an option to purchase a 2004 STI at MSRP, was willing to put down $500 as a fully refundable deposit, wanted to do everything in writing, and wanted the manager to sign our agreement. I got 2 or 3 bites, one of which ultimately worked out. Granted, the dealer is about 2 hours from me.

03-10-2003, 04:36 PM	#14
CloNeGTS Scooby Newbie Member#: 23341 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Overland Park, KS Vehicle: 04 Rex STi WRB/Gold	Well, say what you like guys, but it all depends on your dealer and their code of ethics. Here in the midwest, I've had conversations and overall very healthy communication with my dealer since October or so. Just as he told me the deposit I gave him is refundable, I'll be getting the 2nd STi coming to them for MSRP. And don't forget MSRP is not like they are selling a car for the price they paid for it. MSRP is a healthy profit. "Sick of the supply and demand BS"???? Wow....ok. Sounds like ignorance. As I said before, if a dealer wants to try and 'strike gold' by price gouging, let them try it. Especially in a market like this, they'll see a huge markup won't sell any cars. If they won't sell the car for MSRP, someone will. Legal this....legal that. Forget it guys. If they are going to jack you around, go somewhere else. This is the beauty of free enterprise. Find a respectable dealer who will take your standard $500 refundable deposit. If you can't find one, look here. http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuk...iewtopic&t=491 Without a deposit down and a sold order, I don't find any of these numbers to be outrageous. That's just the way it goes. Get in line or pay the price.

03-10-2003, 07:19 PM	#15
N10S Scooby Newbie Member#: 12335 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Warrenton, Mo Vehicle: 2011 WRX WR Blue	Its unfortunate, but many times unless you have a very healthy long-term relatonship with the owners of a dealership, you are not going to be able to buy a limited production vehicle without seeing some kind of mark-up above MSRP. Even with a great relationship you typically won't get a better price than MSRP on these kinds of vehicles. The dealerships that sell to everyone at MSRP are the ones with lists 20+ deep typically.

03-11-2003, 11:04 AM	#16
Jaxx Scooby Guru Member#: 177 Join Date: Aug 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Austin, Texas, USA Vehicle: The 93 W/EJ20K-sold Subaru-less :(	stay away from any larry miller dealer ship in idaho utah or colorado the ad adm to EVERY car they sell (yeah even the 9000 civic) no there is never a reason to pay thousands of $ for adm when you can get an airplace ticket any where in the country for under 400

03-11-2003, 08:02 PM	#17
Sothoth Scooby Newbie Member#: 4051 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bigfoot Country Vehicle: 2005 WRX STi Black / Gold	Dick Hannah Subaru in Clark County (just north of Portland OR, but in WA State). They are certainly living up to Mr. Hannah's first name. Currently, their Mitsu dealership is charging $10,000 over MSRP on the Evo. According to two different sales people (not a third one, as he didn't know what an STi was. Yes, I'm serious), the same mark-up is definite on an STi. I used to live near Santa Rosa (CA), and Prestige Imports treated me like gold. Dick Hannah? Treats me like tin. I'm seriously considering an M3 at MSRP at this point. Cheers Sothoth

03-11-2003, 08:37 PM	#18
Sothoth Scooby Newbie Member#: 4051 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bigfoot Country Vehicle: 2005 WRX STi Black / Gold	Took a leaf out of banghado's book (see above), and emailed every frickin' dealer in WA and OR!! Dick Hannah is offering $4000 over MSRP. Capitol Auto Group sent me an email back about ebay prices, and wouldn't even commit to a figure!! Buh-bye.

03-12-2003, 12:12 AM	#19
tallywacker4g63 Scooby Newbie Member#: 32868 Join Date: Feb 2003 Vehicle: 1990 Eagle Talon TSi white	my local mitsu dealer wouldn't even give me a price on one. they said " the first three we get go to the highest bidder" yeah give them reason to over charge for the car and kill it with high pricing

03-12-2003, 03:29 AM	#20
WRX_Mundi Scooby Specialist Member#: 33270 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Boise, ID Vehicle: 2004 STi WR Blue	Hi Jaxx! You suggest not paying ADM, which is, I assume, Additional Dealer Markup. OK, I've put my order in (not from Larry Miller) and they have written down "MSRP or less". I've decided it would be prudent to get straight exactly what they mean by MSRP -- after all they may decide that $4000 floor mats are necessary and that is a reasonable dealer retail. More likely (I've had this happen before from a Nissan dealer) they will talk about something like a "mandatory" regional advertising charge, usually brought up at the last minute. What charges should I expect? I assume MSRP from SOA, destination charge, and gas guzzler tax if any. Anything else? Obviously taxes and registration are my responsibility. I've just been rather surprised in the past at how many "little" things get added at the end which they claim are regular and mandatory (and never mentioned until after many hours of time have been wasted). With the STi I'm sure someone at the dealer (salesperson or other) is going to find it hard to resist trying to tack stuff on -- after all I've waited all this time, and they can say I just didn't accept it and give it to the next person in line -- every employee in the process is going to think, "Heck, he's going to refuse a exclusive $35k car he's been waiting for all this time because of some $300 'undercoating' we'll just pretend we always apply and now he has to eat it or lose it? Besides, he's ripping us off trying to get the car at MSRP anyway..."

03-12-2003, 12:33 PM	#22
Jasonoff Scooby Newbie Member#: 33070 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada Vehicle: 2010 C63 AMG Calcite White	Ouch that's gotta suck. Must be a US thing. They won't sell over MSRP here!! YEAH Canada I'm even negotiating for some throwins

03-12-2003, 04:13 PM	#23
addison1062 Scooby Newbie Member#: 33056 Join Date: Feb 2003	I checked out the three dealer in my area: Bob Rohrman, $5k markup Tom Wood Subaru $2500 mark up Speedway, they claim they will be giving it to me at MSRP, but the guy I had signed the deal with has left. I'm wondering where this is going to leave me and my deposit... So far, they have been great.

03-13-2003, 01:20 AM	#24
Sothoth Scooby Newbie Member#: 4051 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bigfoot Country Vehicle: 2005 WRX STi Black / Gold	STI INGER Had around ten responses. I sent emails to everyone except the guy in Seattle that Glenn W is getting his from at MSRP. (I'm on the waiting list for that, but in about a year!!!) No one has written back in agreement. NO ONE!! I've had loads of "$4000 over" replies. I've had "wow, look at ebay, the prices are going to be way high", and I've had "why not email me back to talk?" replies. I asked a simple question. I've yet to get an answer in the affirmative. Mmmmmm. M3