Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday February 25, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > STi Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2003, 01:47 AM   #1
ImprezaRSinCT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1810
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Milford, CT USA
Vehicle:
14 Acura TL w Tech
18 Crosstrek 2.0i Limited

Default Sports Car International review/comparo...

I haven't seen this one posted here yet. taken from http://forums.caranddriver.com/ubb/u...&f=19&t=000712


quote:



Originally published by Sports Car International:
The steering is unquestionably the STIís weakest link. Away from the consistent surface of a track, feedback through the wheel becomes strangely artificial and uneven. Compared to the tightly wound nature of the rest of the components, the steering feels lose and imprecise, taking away from crucial feedback to the driver. In corners, it loads up unnaturally and you can clearly sense the front differential working through the rim of the steering wheel as it scrambles to sort out the power. Occasionally, the wheel will actually want to change direction under hard acceleration, just like the torque steer felt in powerful front-wheel-drive cars. Most of the time the sensation is far less severe, but it nonetheless greatly from establishing an intimate connection with the road.

Subaru makes no attempt to hide the fact that the STi was designed for the most hard-core driving enthusiasts on earth. Itís a narrowly focused driving machine tuned to perform best when pushed to its absolute limits. Few unmodified road cars are as comfortable at eight- or nine-tenths as the STi is, making it just the ticket for those looking for something they can race on the weekends. For that, weíre very happy that Subaru of America has bought the STi over, and weíre sure it will have no problem meeting its sales target of 300-units per month.

As a strictly road going machine, however, the STI is perhaps just a bit too compromised. This is a pity because the engine is staggeringly accomplished and more than refined enough to suit a less extreme vehicle. We could probably accept the ride if we planned to autocross our STi regularly, or use it primarily for track driving, but itís perhaps just a little too hardcore for a daily driver.


Originally published by Sports Car International:
We were utterly astounded by the tremendous abilities of the European-spec Lancer Evolution VII on these same test-roads we are at today, no more than a year ago, so I let my contributing author, Marco Ray, snag the keys of the STi allowing myself to head towards the latest iteration of the Evolution, hoping that it would too possess at least most of the Ero-spec carís magic.

There are no differences between this new USDM Evo, and the Evo VII from a year ago on the inside: same superb Recaro seats, same delightful Momo steering wheel, same purposeful yet somewhat austere dash. But the Evo VIIís 2.0-liter four cylinder was ďunofficiallyĒ rated at well over 300-hp, so Iím not surprised to find that this new Evoís 271-hp version doesnít pack quite as a potent punch on the initial uphill straight. In fact, not much happens at all until exactly 3,000-rpm when the turbo boost comes on with al sudden fury and sends the tach racing around to about 6,000-rpm, where the power drops off noticeably. Keep the turbo spinning and the Lancer is undeniably quick, but let it fall out of the powerband (easy enough to do with only five forward ratios) and it takes a while to recover.

Meanwhile, Marco is charging hard in the torque rich Impreza, nipping at my rear bumper in no time. Then the first corner approaches and the Lancer comes into its element. A quick stab of the brakes, down into second, just a slight turn of the ery fast steering and I;m already charging the the apex. Now back on the gasÖ.waitÖ.waitÖ.whoosh, as the turbo spools up and launches me into the next turn. Next time Iím determined to carry more speed and maintain turbo boost as O wait longer before I stomp on the large Brembos and get back on the throttle sooner, all while deciphering signals from the ultra communicative steering that acts like a direct satellite link between my brain and the four tires.

On this old, sun-weathered pavement, the front end does threaten to lose grip for a moment, so I ease off just enough to settle the chassis. Then Iím back on the gas hard as the wheel unwinds and the Subaru is left sucking on my wastegate fumes. The next few corners are bumpy and tight. No matter. The Lancer and I have already found a rhythm together and, as long as I keep the revs up, Iím confident that the compliant chassis will easily chew up and spit out any imperfections. Sure, there is a limit to how hard I can push it, but I also know that precisely where that limit lies and the Lancer will remain utterly composed and controllable right up to that point. By the time I reach the first (and only) stop sign of the route, the STi is nothing but a small blue blur up on the hillside behind me.

Iím anxious to leap out of the Evo and jump up and down with enthusiasm, but I refrain until Marco has had a chance to experience it for himself. I suggest thath he lead while I try to get a handle on the STi. After the Lancer, even the STiís smaller steering wheel feels huge and the driving position isnít nearly as spot on. Weíll be running the route in the opposite direction, so we begin with some of the tightest and steepest but also the best-paved turns of the entire road. As opposed to the lag-prone Evo, the Subaru has gobs of torque everywhere and pulls like the proverbial freight train, even when I upshift to third. No wounder I slightly overcook the first turn-in point and have to get on the brakes hard, which isnít a problem for the immense rotors. I can literally feel the differentials working overtime to keep understeer at bay as the STi claws its way around a hairpin.

And yet, compared to the Lancer, the STi seems to require a ton of steering lock and its responses are eerily detached. Just a fraction of the Evoís intimacy makes way through the STiís steering wheel, so I have to put faith in its technical abilities and just hang on for the ride. Thatís easier said than done, especially on the bumpy sections where the Subaruís stiffer suspension threatens to knock the car off-line. Despite my obvious power advantage, Iím only able to catch up tp Marco in short, straight bits that connect the turns before he barrels deep in into the next corner. Itís a clear battle of brawn versus finesse, and Subaru seems to have plenty of the former but not enough of the latter. When I finally do catch up to Marco, his gigantic smile says it all: This round clearly goes to the car wearing the diamond star.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
ImprezaRSinCT is offline  
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-01-2003, 01:57 AM   #2
RA29
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30598
Join Date: Dec 2002
Vehicle:
2000 Lancer Evo 6
Hot Pink

Default

Thanks for writing up the review!

Just as I thought, Subaru lets down on the steering again. The steering has always been a complaint in the past but they didnt rectify it. Oh well. . .

The Evo's quick steering is awesome! It's too bad the STi didnt come with the Spec-C steering.
RA29 is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 02:00 AM   #3
RA29
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30598
Join Date: Dec 2002
Vehicle:
2000 Lancer Evo 6
Hot Pink

Default

I wonder why on the Evo, the power drops off after 6000rpm.
Previous Evos scream all the way to redline at 7000rpm
Must be the tuning on the US Evos . . .
RA29 is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 04:19 AM   #4
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default

I'm no expert, but it felt like the Evo dropped off shortly after 5000. And maybe this guy was spoiled by the Evo VII, cause I thought the lag was minimal and that power was strong from 2000 -5000. Then again, I'm use to driving a WRX with a bigger turbo than stock.

I auto-x once per month, and drive on mostly straight streets the rest of the month. Ultimate handling is not important to me, as long as it is better than my WRX (which I think does well), I'm set. I choose the power of the STi over the carving of the Evo. Too bad I can't buy both.
metoo is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 06:58 AM   #5
VetteVert
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5961
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boone, NC
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

Their ECU really tapers boost at high rpm, just like stock WRXs...

VV

Quote:
Originally posted by RA29
I wonder why on the Evo, the power drops off after 6000rpm.
Previous Evos scream all the way to redline at 7000rpm
Must be the tuning on the US Evos . . .
VetteVert is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 09:25 AM   #6
scott_gunn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4203
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Vehicle:
2009 WRX 5spd hatch
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

He says the Subaru has the stiffer suspension?
scott_gunn is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 10:34 AM   #7
Alleggerita
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 8281
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: BC
Vehicle:
1967 Alfa Romeo GTA

Default Re: Sports Car International review/comparo...

[quote]Originally posted by ImprezaRSinCT
[b]
Originally published by Sports Car International:
The steering is unquestionably the STIís weakest link. Away from the consistent surface of a track, feedback through the wheel becomes strangely artificial and uneven. Compared to the tightly wound nature of the rest of the components, the steering feels lose and imprecise, taking away from crucial feedback to the driver. In corners, it loads up unnaturally and you can clearly sense the front differential working through the rim of the steering wheel as it scrambles to sort out the power. Occasionally, the wheel will actually want to change direction under hard acceleration, just like the torque steer felt in powerful front-wheel-drive cars. Most of the time the sensation is far less severe, but it nonetheless greatly from establishing an intimate connection with the road.


Sounds like the criticism of the steering is two-fold. One is the relative lack of feedback while the other one is related to feeling the operation of the front diff in the steering, that is too much feedback.

The first one is annoying but can probably be relatively easily changed with a modified steering rack - LHD spec C racks, aftermarket vendors!?

The second one about feeling the operation of the diff is just due to the nature of the beast, a very competition oriented car that loses some of its linear feel due to serious hardware - you feel the transition when the hardware kicks in - it will feel linear again if you are operating in its intended range. I don't see this as a concern but some people may.
Alleggerita is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 01:28 PM   #8
Coati
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9106
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: 2020 Crosstrek Hybrid
Vehicle:
2015 FXT - DGM
2008 STI - Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by scott_gunn
He says the Subaru has the stiffer suspension?
Isn't that funny? Doesn't jibe at all with the Autoweek review, among others. These reviews are really all over the map.
Coati is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 02:23 PM   #9
RA29
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30598
Join Date: Dec 2002
Vehicle:
2000 Lancer Evo 6
Hot Pink

Default

Changing the steering rack to the Spec-C version would probably help but that would add to the cost. It's probably not cheap either.
RA29 is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 02:23 PM   #10
HFTuRbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34388
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
Black w/gunmetal

Arrow

Quote:
Isn't that funny? Doesn't jibe at all with the Autoweek review, among others. These reviews are really all over the map
Yeah, as if they flipped a coin or had a dream!
HFTuRbo is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 03:06 PM   #11
j y
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8829
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
GRB STI
SWP

Default Re: Re: Sports Car International review/comparo...

Quote:
Originally posted by Alleggerita
Sounds like the criticism of the steering is two-fold. One is the relative lack of feedback while the other one is related to feeling the operation of the front diff in the steering, that is too much feedback.

The first one is annoying but can probably be relatively easily changed with a modified steering rack - LHD spec C racks, aftermarket vendors!?

The second one about feeling the operation of the diff is just due to the nature of the beast, a very competition oriented car that loses some of its linear feel due to serious hardware - you feel the transition when the hardware kicks in - it will feel linear again if you are operating in its intended range. I don't see this as a concern but some people may.
Agreed. There were many complaints from Europe for the darty steering of the Focus RS when that arrived, due to it's mechanical limited slip differential. Particularily on less than perfect B-roads.

-Jeff
j y is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 06:31 PM   #12
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by HFTuRbo

Yeah, as if they flipped a coin or had a dream!
It's just that different drivers will have different styles, which jibe better with a particular car. Many people think the WRX pushes like a bulldozer, others think that it rotates into corners well. It all depends on your driving style.

Kevin
gtguy is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 07:30 PM   #13
HFTuRbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34388
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
Black w/gunmetal

Lightbulb Yup!

Quote:
different drivers will have different styles, which jibe better with a particular car. Many people think the WRX pushes like a bulldozer, others think that it rotates into corners well. It all depends on your driving style.
The WRX does go through the corners well. Yes there are different styles of doing curves. It's all relative and how far one is willing to chance a fling. Now to completely change what I said, but quoting: "the WRX pushes like a bulldozer". Yes, it also pushes like a bulldozer. Flip a coin (drivers style), whatever. All cars take some getting accustomed to, breaking-in, tire wear, also considered. We're splitting hairs on info through other folks eyes, but not for long!
HFTuRbo is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 11:37 PM   #14
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default Re: Yup!

Quote:
Originally posted by HFTuRbo

The WRX does go through the corners well. Yes there are different styles of doing curves. It's all relative and how far one is willing to chance a fling. Now to completely change what I said, but quoting: "the WRX pushes like a bulldozer". Yes, it also pushes like a bulldozer. Flip a coin (drivers style), whatever. All cars take some getting accustomed to, breaking-in, tire wear, also considered. We're splitting hairs on info through other folks eyes, but not for long!
I agree with you, HF. I have always said that the WRX demands smoothness from its driver, or it will be uncooperative. I recall letting someone drive my car (hamhandedly and briefly, before, horrified, I pulled them over and took over), and they had my car doing things it never did with me...it was understeering, the ABS was going off, it was crazy!

The WRX rewards the smooth driver, but it can also reward the rally-style, Scandinavian flicker. I rather imagine the STi will be like that, only more...a LOT more. Reading the reviews of the car, I'm almost sorry I didn't sign up for one, until I see a picture of the car and am reminded of why I didn't. It's just not my personal style.

Kevin
gtguy is offline  
Old 05-02-2003, 12:39 AM   #15
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default Re: Re: Yup!

Quote:
From teh linky....

So with that said, I think SCI is off target for criticizing the STI for its stiff suspension set-up. The car is a street legal race car. Something tells me that they will not be criticizing other street legal racecars, (i.e. Enzo, Carrera GT, Ford GT, etcÖ)for their stiff suspension. Yeah these cars are significantly higher priced than the STi, but there design intent remains the same. So then why should one street legal racecar be belittled for having a stiff suspension but one that is $100,000+ more expensive that it, be praised for its racecar like setup.


Ooooooo.....race car! I'll bet the SRT-4 is a race car too!

Give me a break!

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline  
Old 05-02-2003, 09:12 AM   #16
strangerq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13095
Join Date: Dec 2001
Default Re: Re: Re: Yup!

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket




Ooooooo.....race car! I'll bet the SRT-4 is a race car too!

Give me a break!

Kevin
You'll likely need one if an STI comes up behind you on a windy mountain road on a rainy day. Either that, or pull over to the right.

Last edited by strangerq; 05-02-2003 at 11:10 AM.
strangerq is offline  
Old 05-02-2003, 11:07 AM   #17
dsmperformance
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15059
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Latrobe, PA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STi
1991 TSi

Default

Wouldn't it be logical to test these cars on a rally course instead of asphalt? Or both? Granted, most of these cars won't see a rally, but it makes sense since they excel in extreme variable conditions such as a rally.
dsmperformance is offline  
Old 05-05-2003, 01:19 AM   #18
100
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10034
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Oakland, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
WR Blue. niiiice.

Default

I'd listen to SCI before I'd listen to Motor Trend or even Automobile, for the simple reason tha there's no ads. The Automobile scan has a full-page STi ad in the same issue for cryin' out loud.

IMO, steering feedback is everything. That is, once you have Vishnu stage II.

PEACE

OUT
100 is offline  
Old 05-05-2003, 04:19 AM   #19
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
1999 2019 Macan 4cyl
93 FWD Base Imp WRX swap

Default

As for steering feedback: Im thinking upgraded bushings ala Whiteline would help alot from the sounds of this article...
Kostamojen is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 04:03 PM   #20
97itr153
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 17887
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
05 LGTW Ltd AT
05 Evo RS

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by scott_gunn
He says the Subaru has the stiffer suspension?
I found no mention of "The Subaru has the stiffer suspension (compared to the Evo)".

Is this mentioned in a section of the article that is not quoted in this thread?
97itr153 is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 05:14 PM   #21
Stinsanity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35256
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
04 usdm Sti
13.170(stock)

Default

I am purely speculating and still lack any real knowledge regarding this vehicle I am about to buy but I know on my Lexus GS they You could get a steering ECU which helped the steering greatly. Is that something that would be possible?
Stinsanity is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 05:25 PM   #22
HFTuRbo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34388
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
Black w/gunmetal

Default

Quote:
I know on my Lexus GS they You could get a steering ECU which helped the steering greatly. Is that something that would be possible?
The steering is going to be fine as is. There are no autocross results from any owners yet, if that is what one plans to do with the STi. Coming from a Lexus, you're going to have more feedback than you're accustomed to with the Subie.
HFTuRbo is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 06:51 PM   #23
Jewbaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1994
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: South Somewhere
Vehicle:
2018 STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by 97itr153


I found no mention of "The Subaru has the stiffer suspension (compared to the Evo)".

Is this mentioned in a section of the article that is not quoted in this thread?
Quote:
Thatís easier said than done, especially on the bumpy sections where the Subaruís stiffer suspension threatens to knock the car off-line.
Jewbaru is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 11:06 PM   #24
97itr153
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 17887
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
05 LGTW Ltd AT
05 Evo RS

Default

Thanks Jewbaru...shows how effectively I speed read.
97itr153 is offline  
Old 05-14-2003, 01:35 PM   #25
T-WRX Racer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 21530
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Vehicle:
2004 STI--evo killer
[email protected]

Default

Every one is complaining about the STi's handling.... But it can pull over .94g on skidpad, go through a 700ft salom at nearly 70mph. That is as fast as chevy's holy grail Z06 through the cones. (standard WRX is about .87g and 66mph-cones)
I think the STi will reward those drivers who become acustom to its characteristics. Much like the early Porches, which were notorious for extreme oversteer. But in the hands of the right driver it was a weapon of mass destruction.
Don't be intimatdated by reviews complaining about steering feedback and understeer. Spend your time learning the car, knowing its limits, and deciphering the steering feel. The car will honor your comitment.
The complaints about the diff's is very unwarranted. Have you ever driven a car with a beefed up tranny? It is noisy and notchy. But it is serious hardware for big power. Its a trade off. The diff setup on the STi is like that. A little bit of a trade off with the bais swinging towards performance. The diff's will take some getting used to, but the pay off is grip.
T-WRX Racer is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nice Review of Impreza Line in Sports Car International Nawambo News & Rumors 12 09-29-2005 02:07 AM
STI in Internation Sports Car Mag rbcsaver Newbies & FAQs 3 01-22-2005 03:13 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.