Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 30, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2003, 08:59 PM   #1
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default Help me pick a turbo for my STi

I've got my STi now, and it needs a turbo upgrade by the end of September, that leaves a month left in the local drag race season. I'm totally up in the air at this point on the sizing - I was originally considering a mild upgrade that would be better for auto-x, but the 2nd gear is so short on the the sti that you could run a turbo with a bit higher boost threshold than with a wrx gearbox. Plus it's really tempting to make a streetable 450 crank hp.

I have a catless 3" turbo back going on the car soon, an AVO intake pipe, and need to get a ball and spring MBC. I intend to start out by running the turbo on the stock ECU with the boost around 15.5-16 psi to redline, monitoring the results with delta dash. I will eventually get a custom ECUTEK tune by a local tuner, and also setup one of the higher end aquamist kits (running water/methanol), with a custom tune. Probably stick with the stock intercooler, stock injectors, upgrade the fuel pump to deal better with the boost increase.

Here's the list of turbos I was considering, and my comments:

18G: My original choice. Should spool like a stock car, given the other mods. Maxes out around 350 whp on race gas. Might have trouble holding 16 psi to redline on the 2.5, or at least would be really pushing it on pump fuel. Cheap price.

Used old style 1820: See a few available around $1000. Seems to be sized between the 18g/20g, considerably more lag than a 18g, but not much more power?

20g w/7cm hot side, 6 or 6h wheel. Should make some solid power (~375 txs WHP) with half decent, but not great spool.

AVO450: I believe Clark said it was making decent boost by 4000 rpm, but would also have very solid top end, over 400 TXS whp on race gas. State of the art GT3037 design, ball bearing center, water cooled. Very nice turbo, but expensive.

Green w/7cm/6h: Big bad mofo, on par with the AVO500. I think this turbo is just too big for my needs, both in lag and power output.

If anybody can help fill in the blanks, or help me make up my mind, I would apriciate it.

Thanks,

Kevin
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-25-2003, 11:38 PM   #2
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

whaaaaat? No love?

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2003, 11:57 PM   #3
silverscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15060
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: OH
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
MAPerformance Stage2+ E30

Default

The 18g would be a solid turbo for your car. Real nice spool up, half the price of an 1820, and decent top end. I have a feeling you might be wanting more though after awhile. I know I am (it's like an addiction) That is why this turbo kicks ass. When you do want more, you can send it in and make it a Green.

I say try the 18g out for awhile.
silverscooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 12:08 AM   #4
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by silverscooby
The 18g would be a solid turbo for your car. Real nice spool up, half the price of an 1820, and decent top end. I have a feeling you might be wanting more though after awhile. I know I am (it's like an addiction) That is why this turbo kicks ass. When you do want more, you can send it in and make it a Green.

I say try the 18g out for awhile.
That was my original idea, take the 18g get as much as I could out of it. Then sell it off when I'm ready to upgrade. It is very tempting to proceed directly to the AVO450, though, which is clearly the superior turbo of the bunch - I think it would give me the big power without being too laggy when fully tuned.

If the AVO450 makes full boost at 4000 rpms in 4th gear, how laggy is it - getting it to spool up? My vf29 would make full boost by 3000 Rpm's in forth gear, but would take until 4000 rpms to make full boost if you nailed it in 2nd gear. I guess it depends on the load.

Hum. I need to go and check the Rpm vs. speed for 2nd gear in my car.

Thanks,

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 12:18 AM   #5
MAD REX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18163
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 WRX
MBP

Default

I think he meant, get the 18G and when you get tired of it, it can be upgraded to a 20G or probably a FP green.

No need to sell it.
MAD REX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 12:28 AM   #6
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

I don't know how much you want to push the envelope, or even how much more the sti engine can handle. But if you raised your redline a little, that would make the 450 alot more manageable, and would be better suited to the 2.5 than the others with a higher redline. Just throwing the idea out there, good luck with your choice.
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 01:53 AM   #7
XT6Wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 524
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: WA
Vehicle:
04 STi
White

Default

Well, honestly the stock turbo is very good... just the ECU calls it quits before the turbo can get happy. It seems like this turbo wants to run well north of the stock 14psi, and who knows where it ends because the fuel cut steps in way too soon.

being stuck with 16.9 psi for your max, would lead me to advise getting maybe a cheap VF22 till the ECU is cracked and the turbo market settles down?

The other thing you might think of is getting an aftermarket header for a 03 JDM STi with the twin entry turbo and then making a custom 3037 setup using the twin entry version of that turbo.
XT6Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 09:37 AM   #8
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by XT6Wagon
Well, honestly the stock turbo is very good... just the ECU calls it quits before the turbo can get happy. It seems like this turbo wants to run well north of the stock 14psi, and who knows where it ends because the fuel cut steps in way too soon.
I really have to strongly disagree with this. The evidence I've seen shows that the stock turbo can't hold more than 13 psi to redline. When Clark swaped their's out to an AVO450, which could very easily hold 16 psi at redline, it made 80 hp more at redline than the stock turbo, yes, 80 more hp on 2.5 more psi of boost..... That's a clear indicator that the stock turbo is maxed out and blowing hot air. The ECU and stock fuel system handles the bigger turbo and more boost just fine, up to about 15.5-16 psi, but it's really dependant on max airflow. Also, if you look at Dan's graph here, it shows the stock turbo can't make any more boost at redline even with a MBC, downpipe and intake:





What else do you expect from vf30 sized compressor? That 13.5 psi at redline is equivalent to 20 psi on a EJ20.....can a VF30 do more than 20 psi at redline on a EJ20? NO!

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 11:46 AM   #9
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket



What else do you expect from vf30 sized compressor? That 13.5 psi at redline is equivalent to 20 psi on a EJ20.....can a VF30 do more than 20 psi at redline on a EJ20? NO!

Kevin
If the EJ257 were flowing the same air, it'd make essentially the same power. In this case it's not making as much power as an EJ20 with a similarly sized turbo with 20PSI at 7000rpm.

25% more displacement doesn't = 25% more air though the motor; There is a lot more to it then that.
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 01:56 PM   #10
XT6Wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 524
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: WA
Vehicle:
04 STi
White

Default

strange, I'm keeping almost 15 psi in 5th at redline.

I'm thinking its capible of holding alot more boost if you can kick it up higher to start with. my VF34 would trail like that if you set the peak boost to 16 or 17psi. Set the peak boost to 19psi and it would start to creep... BAD!

The important thing is to findout either by begging for a compressor map, or through real life data is to see if the CFM requirements of the EJ257 is dragging the VF39 off the peak efficency island at high boost or not.
XT6Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 04:24 PM   #11
capaWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37768
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
MY12 wrx ltd
98 2.0rs (sold!)

Default

has there been any talk of the det that has happening on the stock sti's? i would be afraid to turn up boost any more than stock where there is already det...
even if - i am hard pressed to find any tuner that has cracked the sti's ecu code... this would probably prove to be the best first upgrade for it in order to smooth out stock power and allow a safer application of boost..
IMO - wait for ECU reflash - then go nuts... (go you crazy banana - go!)
capaWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 04:30 PM   #12
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti


If the EJ257 were flowing the same air, it'd make essentially the same power. In this case it's not making as much power as an EJ20 with a similarly sized turbo with 20PSI at 7000rpm.

25% more displacement doesn't = 25% more air though the motor; There is a lot more to it then that.
Of course there is. But there's no way to know all the variables right now either. When sizing a compressor side, in general, displacement is linearly related to the rate of air mass you need to flow. So it is very valid rough comparison.

Of course the EJ257 isn't making more power - it's running pig rich with marginal timing.

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 04:37 PM   #13
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by XT6Wagon
strange, I'm keeping almost 15 psi in 5th at redline.

I'm thinking its capible of holding alot more boost if you can kick it up higher to start with. my VF34 would trail like that if you set the peak boost to 16 or 17psi. Set the peak boost to 19psi and it would start to creep... BAD!

The important thing is to findout either by begging for a compressor map, or through real life data is to see if the CFM requirements of the EJ257 is dragging the VF39 off the peak efficency island at high boost or not.
That 15 psi is not suprising in 5th, I beleive those dyno's were taken in 4th. Regardless, I'm sure the turbo maxed out.

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 04:43 PM   #14
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket




Of course the EJ257 isn't making more power - it's running pig rich with marginal timing.

Kevin
Not on my dyno.
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 05:00 PM   #15
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti


Not on my dyno.
So you're saying the sti couldn't make more power with a better tune? So we don't need utec's?

Please enlighten us to why else an EJ257 would make less power than a EJ205 at the same air mass flow rate? I'm sure the more restrictive exhaust housing on the VF39 vs. the VF30 is also hurting the sti's to end. Or do the cams just suck?

How do you explain the very linear tapering of boost that we see above on the above boost plot for the MBC car. To me, that looks like the turbo is maxed out in flow by 4000 RPM's and just can't pump enough air to hold the boost up as the RPM's rise.

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 05:10 PM   #16
cavymeister
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24463
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2003 Chevy S10
91 Hunduh Civic BASE

Default

SR50
cavymeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 05:29 PM   #17
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 [email protected]
netcom.com

Default

I have seen the same thing. The 257's have just not made alot more power then the EJ20's. I think with the right turbo you can certainly make alot of power with one. It will take the market a year before this really happens.

On to the turbo choice and my opinions:

I think the stock turbo is worthless. In fact I would not even run an MBC. I would replace it right away.

With the AVO450 on the STI motor a solid 80whp was gained at redline. In fact, peak power was made at redline. Around 7000 rpm. The AVO's are damn nice turbos. I wish people would use them more so we could see what they really can do. They also open up the idea of hybrids. The AVO450 is a Garrett GT3037-10. The AVO500 is exactly the same with a larger Exhaust turbine wheel. Since they use the -10 cartridge We (a bunch of us in the sidelines) agree that the compressor is a bit small. It uses a nice To4e compressor housing but the GT30 2 inch wheel.

I think from what we have all learned in the last month I would personally go with a turbo that had the largest and most highest flowing backside on the new STI. Its certainly going to need it and in the little experiment on the STI with 80whp at redline being gained at only 2 psi more.... People should take note.

My personal Choice for a bolt on turbo for the new STI would be these in this order:


1. An FP 20G with the 8Cm housing and 6H wheel (impossible to get but if you can get one do it)

2.An AVO450 or 500 with a -12 cartridge The big wheels the turbo needs to make Big power.

3.An AVO500 (Huge exhaust flow, Real GT center and wheels, To4E housing. Still bolts on.

4. An AVO450. Slightly less lag. Basically the same turbo. Smaller Exhaust turbine wheel.

5. An old style PE1820 with some port work on the exhaust side and a clipped wheel or a larger wheel. Increase the ehaust flow of this turbo and I expect you would make ALOT more power with it. These are popping up used now for $800-$1000. The old ones have the large Compressor. I will have one for sale in a few weeks.

Other then that I would do a custom setup using a 60-1 or a T series turbo.

Pic shows the AVO450 next to the US STI turbo the VF39. Notice the large and in charge backside to the AVO450. Its as large as the T04E compressor.

AVO450 0.6 AR 48Trim 2.08/3.00 Inch Compressor wheel 0.86 AR exhaust housing 84 Trim 2.03/2.22 Inch turbine wheel. This turbo is exactly this garrett GTR:

GT30 700177-0010 48Trim Compressor 2.08/3.00 84 trim turbine 2.03/2.22 turbine wheel. 44lbs flow.

AVO500 uses a 2.16/2.36 Inch turbine wheel but is the same otherwise. So.. The AVO500 uses the -10 compressor with the -12 turbine side. Very odd combo. Oposite problem of the PE1820... The AVO500 has a big caboose. The 1820 has a big front side but not much junk in the trunk.

Clark



Last edited by AZScoobie; 08-26-2003 at 05:45 PM.
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 05:32 PM   #18
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket


So you're saying the sti couldn't make more power with a better tune? So we don't need utec's?

Please enlighten us to why else an EJ257 would make less power than a EJ205 at the same air mass flow rate? I'm sure the more restrictive exhaust housing on the VF39 vs. the VF30 is also hurting the sti's to end. Or do the cams just suck?

How do you explain the very linear tapering of boost that we see above on the above boost plot for the MBC car. To me, that looks like the turbo is maxed out in flow by 4000 RPM's and just can't pump enough air to hold the boost up as the RPM's rise.

Kevin
Kevin,
You are confusing a few things that Iíve said and or reading too much into them.

13psi on the [email protected] does not = 20PSI on an [email protected]

That was my first statement. When you increase displacement 25% you don't automatically increase airflow 25%. This is a fairly common misconception that people have when they spend time calculating points on a compressor map. In the real world it doesn't quite work out that way.

As to why the STI with it's stock turbo is falling on it's face on the top end, I have 2-3 guesses, but nothing is absolute, and until I end up with a chance to actually test the car when I am in control of timing I won't be able to give you feedback on how well my guesses play out in the real world, and frankly I don't care to speculate aloud since sometime in the past year or so, my thinking out-loud privileges have been revoked.

The stock timing is fairly aggressive, and the stock A/F ratios (At least on our STI) are a bit on the conservative side, but not what Iíd call pig rich. I don't think there is much to be gained by just leaning out the car. On a perfect day we'll say we could gain 20hp at redline by leaning the car out. That 20Hp still doesn't put the car on par with an EJ205 running 20psi at redline.

The point of my contribution to this discussion is simply to remind you that while it's nice and neat on paper to just add 25% to your compressor map calculations, it's not going to play out that way in the real world.

Do I think that the stock EJ257 has more potential then a stock EJ205? Yes! Do I think it has 25% more potential? Well if it does, itís more because the rods and pistons are stronger to allow for higher peak boost pressures then it is because of the added displacement.

Assuming I build a 2.0L motor and a 2.5L motor both running ďno holds barredĒ on heads, cams, turbo selection, boost pressure, which would I take? Iíd take the 2.5L because itís going to be more enjoyable with the extra displacement around town. The 2.0L may actually be capable of producing more peak HP. IIRC the world Subaru EJ dyno record is still held by a 2.0L motor.

This is not to say that I donít think the EJ257 canít be tuned, or that positive results canít be had.
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 07:31 PM   #19
zacek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19467
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Chatsworth, CA.
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
WR Blue - original owner

Default

per my conversations with APS they recommend the APS SR40 with their 20.0 size turbine, good for up to 450hp. If you want stock-like spoolup then the standard SR40 should be the ticket.
zacek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2003, 07:39 PM   #20
Wombat North
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21267
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eats, roots and then leaves
Vehicle:
STI, EWG 8cm Green
UTEC/ECUtek/WI & SD tune

Default

AZScoobie
Thankyou for this information.

The AVO450.
As you have used this turbo on USDM STI did you find the stock injectors maxing out. STI rate them at 534cc.

I used delta dash at the last track day and recorded IDC at over 90% and my EGT's were 1550F in all gears using 94oct. 5th gear the car finally starts to go with boost set at 16psi.

The Road Course here is at 3600ft, altitude correction usually puts it at 4500ft. I found the VF39 is so bad in the first 4 gears that anything above 5000rpm the boost fell flat on its face using EBC and turboxs exhaust. My old Stage 4 would eat the STI to 100mph then the STI would eat the Stage 4 from 100mph on.

Nathan
The AMG SLK 32 with cam job and smaller blower pulley is killing me, 1.5sec a lap. Big big order to be placed when UTEC etc etc is finished.

http://jidoshaphoto.com/BeyondTrackD..._105_0581.html
http://jidoshaphoto.com/BeyondTrackD..._105_0582.html

Had him by 5sec a lap when it rained thou
Wombat North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2003, 11:18 AM   #21
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 [email protected]
netcom.com

Default

Wombat. IDC's where in the 90's. Once the ROM file for the STI ECU is out or the UTEC is ready we can fix this. AF was 10.0 to 1 to 10.5 to 1.

Ditch the stock turbo. I personally think its to small for anything past stock, especially in a road race situation.

Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2003, 04:59 PM   #22
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Thank's guys for all you input.

Any idea on the spool of the 20g with a 7cm/6h - RPM's to hit 1 bar boost on the sti?

Thanks,

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2003, 05:16 PM   #23
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 [email protected]
netcom.com

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
Thank's guys for all you input.

Any idea on the spool of the 20g with a 7cm/6h - RPM's to hit 1 bar boost on the sti?

Thanks,

Kevin

The US STI does not spool turbos much faster. Cams and ports cross out the advantages of the AVCS and Displacement to some degree. On the STI tests We ran with an MBC on the AVO450 200-300 rpm at max shorter to get to 14 psi for the EJ257 versus the same exact turbo on an EJ207.

Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2003, 07:46 PM   #24
Wombat North
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21267
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eats, roots and then leaves
Vehicle:
STI, EWG 8cm Green
UTEC/ECUtek/WI & SD tune

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie



The US STI does not spool turbos much faster. Cams and ports cross out the advantages of the AVCS and Displacement to some degree. On the STI tests We ran with an MBC on the AVO450 200-300 rpm at max shorter to get to 14 psi for the EJ257 versus the same exact turbo on an EJ207.

Clark
Clark,
Very interesting info. As of a few hours ago I got hold of a rebuilt AVO 450.

I presume from your posts the 450 turbo will run on the stock fuel system at least upto 16psi. Is this correct
Wombat North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2003, 11:08 AM   #25
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 [email protected]
netcom.com

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat North


Clark,
Very interesting info. As of a few hours ago I got hold of a rebuilt AVO 450.

I presume from your posts the 450 turbo will run on the stock fuel system at least upto 16psi. Is this correct

ON the car we tested (which is owned by Rich) 16 psi is safe on the stock fuel system with about 94-95 octane unleaded fuel.

Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help me pick new rims for my car... drtalon Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 45 02-28-2009 01:44 PM
Help me pick a downpipe for my '05 STi StiPete Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 68 09-23-2005 11:23 AM
help me pick a name for my bisuness Z0rr0 Off-Topic 46 07-02-2005 12:52 AM
Help me pick a FMIC for my STi Optimus Prime Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 41 03-31-2005 09:01 AM
Help me pick a topic for my argumentative paper OT! Drift Monkey Off-Topic 10 04-08-2004 01:37 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.