Headgasket issues? (1999-2002)

[dugrant153]

I apologize if this is in the wrong area. I was not quite sure where it would best be fit (moderators, please move to appropriate section).

Anyways, since I'm taking a stats class and might as well put it to use, I want to see if it's really common for Imprezas, Legacies, Outbacks, Foresters (1998-2002) to have the head gasket issue.
(Referring to Phase II EJ25 engines)

I know this is a forum only and won't represent the whole subaru population, but I figure it's a good indicator (or atleast give us all an idea).

Plus, I get to apply some of my stats class material

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[b_tapper]

Had a passenger side hg go on my '02rs

[nate49509]

This poll isn't really fair because it dosen't show the various engines that were availble in each of those models thru those years. DOHC, SOHC, 2.5L, and 2.2L etc. Not to mention most of the time these cars all shared the same engines.

[dugrant153]

I hear ya.

It's kinda hard to keep track of all the data. Tthere's so many variables and stuff so I could only poll for a certain range of things.

But I do agree with ya. In order to make it a bit more simpler, let's keep it to the SOHC 2.5L Phase II EJ25 then to investiage the newer headgasket issue (WW-99, I think).

(thread edited)

[imprezza01]

To make it even more simple, the TSB is WWP-99.

2000-2002 MY Legacy and Outback with 2.5L SOHC engine
1999-2002 MY Impreza with 2.5L SOHC engine
1999-2002 MY Forester with 2.5L SOHC engine.

Hopefully this will help.

Jon

[Aaron'z 2.5RS]

I went to Langer Subaru (outside rochester Ny, Jeff is the greatest, non-dealer tech i've ever met)
He mentioned ALOT of the 2.5z have had HG problems, his wifes outback HG went at 30K!!!!! i'm waiting for 100k to get mine done(MY99), it's been going for some time but hasn't gone yet......

[ben_ak]

I work at an independent Subaru repair shop and I would estimate that maybe 15% of the EJ25 SOHC left head gaskets are _dry_ (85% at least "seeping" from gasket) at the bottom/rear of the gasket. We refer several every week to the dealer. SOA is putting additive in the affected car's cooling systems and if that doesn't stop the leak, they will cover it to 100,000 miles.

-Ben

[dugrant153]

So after 100,000 miles... you're on your own?

Still seems like a stop gap (gap stop?) measure only.
And 15% is not huge, but that's mean 15 out of every 100 Subaru (Phase II) are bound to have the HG problem.

Scary, I say.

ben_ak, is there any way to check for a possible headgasket problem (if it's a used car)? I heard there's a new headgasket design out. Has that, and the coolant, been doing the job so far?

[North Ursalia]

Originally posted by dugrant153
So after 100,000 miles... you're on your own?

You're on your own after 60k miles normally... I'd think an extra 40k is rather generous .


Brian

[Jon [in CT]]

Originally posted by dugrant153
So after 100,000 miles... you're on your own?

Still seems like a stop gap (gap stop?) measure only.
And 15% is not huge, but that's mean 15 out of every 100 Subaru (Phase II) are bound to have the HG problem.

Scary, I say.

ben_ak, is there any way to check for a possible headgasket problem (if it's a used car)? I heard there's a new headgasket design out. Has that, and the coolant, been doing the job so far?

dugrant153, I think you misread ben_ak's post. He said that only 15% of the affected (by this service campaign) head gaskets were DRY, meaning they didn't exhibit any signs of coolant leakage. But I think he also wrote that 85% of the affected headgaskets he's encounterd showed some sign of coolant leakage (or seeping, to use his word). Those are poor odds.

[dugrant153]

Oh okay, I understand.

[dugrant153]

so far, 20% of Impreza owners say they have headgasket issues.
not a good number. more people voting?

[SubaruTech707]

I work at a Subaru dealership. The problems seem more prevalent on the driver's side than anything else. Almost unheard of to see a leak on the passenger side. When disassembling, there are almost never any visual signs of head gasket failure. The replacement head gaskets are not updated, as far as visual inspections go. I've actually dealt with a few cars that still leaked after head gasket replacement. Actually, seepage is a more proper term. The sealant that's being added in the recall has taken care of leaks instantly, I'd have no problem using it in my car- it's organic-based, so nothing harmful.

[dugrant153]

Originally posted by SubaruTech707
I work at a Subaru dealership. The problems seem more prevalent on the driver's side than anything else. Almost unheard of to see a leak on the passenger side. When disassembling, there are almost never any visual signs of head gasket failure. The replacement head gaskets are not updated, as far as visual inspections go. I've actually dealt with a few cars that still leaked after head gasket replacement. Actually, seepage is a more proper term. The sealant that's being added in the recall has taken care of leaks instantly, I'd have no problem using it in my car- it's organic-based, so nothing harmful.

Whats your advice for someone looking for a used 2.5L Subaru? As soon as a I get a Subaru, should I try to get a new headgasket and the sealant?
I know to skip the 1998s, since the DOHCs seem to have problems.

[SubaruTech707]

I agree with you about the DOHC cars, too much headache in the long run, with tight valve problems, overheating, oil leaks, etc. Spend the extra dough and get yourself an 00 or newer. I'd always recommend a manual if you intend on keeping it, not that the automatics are bad- I've just been dealing with a lot of front diff concerns lately.

It's not my belief that these cars 'need' head gaskets. It's not a gasket failure problem, more of a design error I think. A bottle of the sealer doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all. It's not going to affect the longevity of the engine/cooling system.

If you're interested in a used 2.5L Subaru, I'd say the most important thing is to know the car's history. And a good history at a dealership usually indicates that the owner cared for the car and felt it was worth the extra $$$ for peace of mind. We all know Subaru's have an uncanny ability to run forever, don't let issues like these get in your way. I was confident enough in the new STi that I bought it, even though it was a 1st year intro model. Maybe I felt comfort in knowing that if it ever broke, I could fix it myself, under warranty...

[dugrant153]

Subaru's have an uncanny ability to run forever, don't let issues like these get in your way

I hear ya man.
Plus, driving my friend's 2.2L Impreza TS automatic (1999) has me kinda sold on the Impreza. I really like it

The reason for this poll, however, is just to see if the 2.5L headgasket problem is extremely common, and to see if there are high chances of me getting one that will have it. (A few owners claim that their Imprezas have been babied and get the headgasket problem).

Just trying to calculate some numbers out.
As long as there's a fix for this problem, I guess things should be good.

[Yotsuya]

Originally posted by SubaruTech707
The sealant that's being added in the recall has taken care of leaks instantly, I'd have no problem using it in my car- it's organic-based, so nothing harmful.

I got a the notice this afternoon from Subaru's mySubaru registration; they want me to go in when I get the actual letter.

At 90,000 miles I've had no real issues, though I've been trying to track down a source of bad milage for the last two months that's probably not related to the issue at hand.

The "conditioner" doesn't seem to last, however; the bulletin I got says it needs to be added every time the coolant is changed from now on. While it's nice for Subaru to do this once for free, this means owners will need to make sure the conditioner is in every coolant change in the future.

Is there a gasket available for the 2.5 from Subaru that doesn't leak? At 90,000 miles my car will probably last just long enough with the first batch of conditioner before it's no longer Subaru's problem. Since the timing belt and clutch need changing anyway, maybe new head gaskets are not such a bad idea.

The text of the message I received:

Service Program WWP-99
February 2004

Dear Subaru Owner:

This email is sent to you in the interest of continued customer satisfaction. Subaru of America recently announced a campaign on certain model year vehicles starting in 1999 through 2002. Official Owner Notification Letters will be mailed to all affected customers starting in late February through May of 2004. The timing of the mailings is based on the vehicle model year, starting with oldest affected model year in February through the newest affected model years in May. The following text is similar to that contained in the Official Owner Notification Letter that will be sent to you during the mailing phase affecting your vehicle. Therefore, this email is most likely arriving before most owners will receive their official Owner Notification Letter in the mail. Please do not schedule your vehicle for an appointment for this campaign until after you have received your Official Owner Notification Letter, unless you are experiencing vehicle problems. You can contact your local Subaru dealer for any questions related to this or e-mail us at Subaru.com, contact us.


CAMPAIGN MESSAGE
As a precautionary measure, SUBARU OF AMERICA, INC. is recommending that a special conditioner be added to the engine cooling system of certain 1999 through 2002 model year Subaru vehicles equipped with 2.5 liter engines. This recommendation, which applies to your Subaru vehicle, is made to prevent a possible external coolant leak at your vehicle’s engine cylinder head gaskets.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO
Once you receive your official Owner Notification Letter in the mail, you should contact your Subaru Dealer as soon as possible for an appointment to have the Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added at no cost to you. The approximate time to perform this operation is 15 minutes. However, it may be necessary to leave your vehicle the full day of your scheduled appointment to allow your dealer flexibility in scheduling. Please present the official notification letter to your Subaru Dealer at the time this repair procedure is performed.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION
Your vehicle’s engine cooling system contains liquid coolant/anti-freeze. Over time, it is possible for small external coolant leaks to develop at the engine cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal expansion and contraction of engine components caused by the heating and cooling of these parts. To prevent coolant leaks from developing or to correct existing leaks at the head gaskets, a special Subaru Cooling System Conditioner should be added to your vehicle’s cooling system.

FUTURE MAINTENANCE
In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to your vehicle’s cooling system whenever the engine coolant is replaced. The recommended service interval for coolant replacement can be found in your Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services”. As a reminder, with the official owner notification mailing, we will include an update page that should be added to your Owner’s Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet. We ask you to keep in mind that replacement of fluids (including Subaru Cooling System Conditioner) during inspection and maintenance services is not covered under warranty.

WARRANTY EXTENSION
Once you receive your notification letter, you should have this Service Program repair performed promptly. If so, Subaru will extend coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty on your vehicle for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service. As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, you must have Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added to your vehicle at any subsequent cooling system services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services”. Resulting damage caused by a lack of maintenance or low coolant level will not be covered.

CHANGED YOUR ADDRESS OR SOLD YOUR SUBARU?
If you have moved or sold your vehicle, please reply to this message with your Vehicle Identification Number and your updated information.

IF YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY PAID FOR A RELATED REPAIR
In the event that you have already paid an authorized Subaru Dealer for repairs to remedy an external coolant leak in an engine cylinder head gasket at less than 100,000 miles and your Subaru’s cooling system has been properly maintained, you may be entitled to reimbursement for the head gasket replacement costs. Any reimbursement by Subaru will be based on our suggested retail parts pricing and suggested labor time multiplied by the dealer’s hourly labor rate at the time of repair. Because Subaru Dealers are independently owned and operated, Subaru of America has no control over the actual charges. The actual repair cost may be higher or lower than the rate used by Subaru of America to calculate reimbursement. If lower, reimbursement will be limited to the amount you actually paid. Please send the ORIGINAL service repair order, which has complete information including the name of the repair facility, date of repair, mileage at the time of repair, complete vehicle identification number (17 digits), and your name, with correct mailing address and telephone number to the address listed below.

Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer Dealer Service Department
Attention: Service Program WWP-99
P.O. Box 6000
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-6000

Please send original receipts only and retain a photocopy for your records. Please be assured that we will attempt to process your reimbursement request as quickly as possible, but may take up to 120 days for this process to be completed.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM
Should you have any questions regarding this customer service program, please contact your nearest Subaru Dealer. To locate the nearest Subaru Dealer you can access our Website at www.Subaru.com and select “Find a Dealer”. Or, you may call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783) during normal business hours for assistance. Please call us immediately if the dealer fails or is unable to make the necessary repairs free of charge or write to the address listed in this email.

Again, this email is possibly being sent before you will receive your official owner notification. Therefore, we would appreciate it if you would wait until that time to have the service campaign completed. Your continued satisfaction with your Subaru is important to us. Please understand that we have taken this action in the interest of your vehicle’s proper operation and we have staged the owner letters in phases so that Subaru dealers can perform this service within a reasonable time frame. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this matter may cause you.

Sincerely,

SUBARU OF AMERICA, INC.

[LordBass]

Just had the left head gasket replaced on my 2002 Impreza 2.5TS at 37k miles.. And got that same email from Subaru today.

My father has the exact same model as me, and no issues at around 70k miles.

My old '87 GL 1.8 never had a head gasket issue in 190k miles.

lb
www.trancelab.com

[Brad Pittiful]

i received my recall notice today

[chrhon]

Last was under the car 1 month ago - no problems but very slight oil leak on passenger side. Under car today - coolant everywhere on drivers side - dripping off frame

edit: have not received letter/ email

MY02 OBS approx 44K mi

[dingo dave]

for a novice like myself, where under the car do i look for any seepage?

[dugrant153]

21% so far for Imprezas (according to the poll).
That ain't a lemon problem, IMO.

[dugrant153]

Alrighty, just looking at the poll now and... wow...
those numbers aren't great.

The headgasket issue appears to affect quite a number of Imprezas.

[Basshead]

just had it happen to me today..leaking coolant..unstable temps...how much does it cost guys?

[dugrant153]

Good question. Basshead, I've heard from 1000-2000 dollars or so to do. Most of it's labor.

Anyone know if the new headgasket is any better? Or whether it will last?