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Old 05-09-2004, 07:30 PM   #1
eclip5e
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Question My 2004 WRX Upgrade plan - comments?

Quote:
2004/2005 Plan
The ultimate goal of the engine is a total version 8 EJ207 swap with AVCS and the twin scroll turbo. Leading up to this, I'll be modifying my current EJ205 with the twin scroll conversion with the intention of utilizing all the conversion parts with the EJ207 to maximize cost effectiveness.

The car is currently a daily driver, but by the time the EJ207 is swapped in, it should be a near-fulltime race car. It will be used for autocross, track days, and perhaps one day SCCA club racing. With that in mind, it seems the best direction to take would be a twin scroll turbo, as the boost comes on early
and is a bit more predictable than a massive turbo that produces massive power at a higher RPM.

The WRC team chose twin turbo for some reason - you gotta figure.


Please comment on my list, either in this thread, or on the site itself. I'm looking for comments on my order, as well as problems my parts may encounter (non fitment, etc), or the legality of my parts (such as catless systems).

Basically before I add power, I want the car able to handle that power safely. With that in mind, please commence with the comments, suggestions, retailers, etc.

Update: Thanks to all those who have replied. I've taken all your suggestions, and this list has come very far from where it began.
2006/2007 Plan
Car will be a fulltime race-only car built primarily for SCCA Club racing in ITE class as well as time attack events such as the Redline Time Attack.

Engine will be built using the ej207 block and version 7 or 8 heads and forged internals, balanced crank, etc.

Some of the fun features that I'd like to get in there:
  • Reversed intake manifold
  • L-Mounted radiator/intercooler setup.
  • Anti-lag?.

Status:
Project details have moved here
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Last edited by eclip5e; 09-13-2006 at 02:27 AM. Reason: redirected.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:45 PM   #2
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fax your mod list to several vendors for a quote and see how you feel. Some good stuff in there some, expensive foofoo.
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:03 PM   #3
eclip5e
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We'll this plan wont be bought at once, its a few years plan.
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:04 PM   #4
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Nice list,

Few things I think you should bag

HIDs, STi rear badging, and d front swaybar

HIDs, marginally better performance, expensive, and without the proper leveling switch setup annoying to others.

STi rear badging, while your putting on many sti parts, leave the badges to the real STis, (I am a little bit of a hipocrite here as I have sti fog covers) but I firmly belive the badges belong on the right car

Front sway bar, WRXs understeer enough already, why oh why would you want to add a BIGGER bar to the front. All 2004s already have a 20mm front bar. Front endlinks sure, but I can't see the benifits of going with a larger bar.


And by all means, please to the upgrade in the following order. Suspension, Brakes, Power, Looks.


Beyond this, what is your goal with this car? 1/4 mile? autoX? Track? Show? I only ask cause I made a few purchases I regretted when modding my wagon, I didn't have my goal set correctly and ended up making a few purchases I wish I could get back.

If you want feel free to hit me up on AIM, just tossing my own opinion here, in the end, it's your car, don't let others affect what you want to do to your car.

Happy Modding!

- jer
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:17 PM   #5
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Take a look at the Stoptech BBK, cheaper than the brembo and the same if not better performance.

I love mine.
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gibjer


Front sway bar, WRXs understeer enough already, why oh why would you want to add a BIGGER bar to the front. All 2004s already have a 20mm front bar. Front endlinks sure, but I can't see the benifits of going with a larger bar.


Then you have never driven a WRX with a front bar.

Front sway bars DO NOT add more understeer. They give MORE BITE. Your front end rolls less, which=less static camber loss=more bite.
I have yet to ever see anyone that has done a front bar regret it. And everyone that was hessitant to do a front for your reasons that has driven my car has ordered a front bar within a week.

Hell even V6TurboTa agrees with me on this one
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:18 AM   #7
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Wow, that's a lot of money for upgrades.

Like others, I suggest you check out some other brands of parts. Many will provide significant improvement without all the cost. I've also found that you can save a good deal of money by getting parts used.

My WRXes modifications page (Offsite)





Front lip spoiler (GReddy) -------- Auto-X STX Class

Rear swaybar (Whiteline)-- personally, I've heard good things about the cheap e-bay offerings. Maybe check it out.

Rear endlinks (Perrin)

Rear swaybar mounts (Whiteline)

Downpipe (??)-- I have the Stromung divorced wastegate dp. Inexpensive and good quality.

Uppipe (STi)-- you should be able to find a used one.

Break lines (STi)-- in the mean time, try tying multiple zipties around the brake line. I hear this works pretty well.

Big brake kit (STi Brembo setup)-- like mentioned, research other brands. These will also force a wheel upgrade (sorry if you already said that).

Front strut tower brace (STi)-- again, maybe try the e-bay knockoffs...I don't know.

Rear strut tower brace (STi)-- see above

Intercooler Hoses (Perrin)--may be able to find some used. I have the Samco that aren't supposed to be as good, but I could tell a difference.
Engine management (UTEC)-- I have the Cobb AP and love it. To each their own, I guess.

Fuel pump (Walbro 342) -------- Getting serious-- outta my league

Fuel Rail Kit (Perrin) - Jury is still out on this mod

550cc Injectors (STi)

Rear bumper lip spoiler (STi)

Radiator Hosing (STi)

Larger hoodscoop (STi)-- looks good, but doesn't really add many horses.

Intercooler (STi)-- I've read the stock WRX intercooler is good over 300 hp, but with your new turbo, you may need this. Used ones come pretty cheaply.

New turbo (APS/GReddy/IHI) - Fast spooler -------- Auto-X ?? Class

STi HID headlights & Switch-- too rich for me.

STi shifter trim

STi pedal kit

Granador super mirrors

STi guage pod

STi rear badging



Just my thoughts. Enjoy it either way!
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:19 AM   #8
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What about wheels & tires + springs & struts or coilovers?

I'll second Davenow's comments. A 22 mm FSB was one of the best mods I put on my car.
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:28 AM   #9
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From your list of mods you could be in 3-4 different SCCA auto-x classes as you go. Do you have a specific class you want to stay in or are the mods more important and you will just switch classes as you go?

I would nix all the STi badging myself. Cause in MHO if it is not at STi, don't badge it as one. Can get cheaper stuff that looks the same anyway. Also, the STi brakes lines and radiators hoses are nice, but way to expensive when you can get the same quality for much less.

Also, you did forget wheels, tires, springs, struts too. Or is that not something planned?
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:30 AM   #10
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A front sway bar will decrease front grip. When a car corners, compression load on the inside wheel increases. A sway bar converts this loading to torque, and applies some of the torque to the outside wheel. The sway bar basically attempts to balance the compression load between the two wheels.

When you say "bite", you may actually mean something like turn-in. Because a bigger sway bar will decrease roll, it might improve turn-in, and you might think grip has increased when it actually has not.

I think you're confused about "static camber loss". Yes, most cars (the WRX included) have some negative camber when the car is at rest. As with most suspensions, negative camber will increase as the suspension compresses. With a softer front sway bar, the inside front would compress more while cornering. This will increase front grip. A bigger sway bar attempts to prevent this by forcing the car to remain flat. In addition, as the compression load on the inside wheel increases, the sway bar applies torque to the outside wheel and attempts to lift it. This decreases grip.

Have you ever seen a front drive car lifting a rear wheel while cornering? It's caused by a large amount of roll stiffness (a big sway bar) and relatively soft springs. As you might imagine, it's not good for grip.

Ask yourself why many serious autocrossers completely disconnect the front sway bars on cars that tend to understeer. Front-drive Hondas and the WRX are good examples. A sway bar decreases roll, increases slip (understeer or oversteer depending on the end of the car), and decreases grip. Eliminating the front sway bar will increase front-end grip and decrease understeer.

You may have driven a WRX with a larger front sway bar, but I'm betting more factors (like tire grip or shocks and springs) changed, or you didn't drive it hard enough to notice the increase in understeer.
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by yobtah
Ask yourself why many serious autocrossers completely disconnect the front sway bars on cars that tend to understeer. Front-drive Hondas and the WRX are good examples.
You'd better take a closer look at the winning WRX's. I love my front swaybar. 22mm adjustable set full stiff and the car feels so much better in transitions.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:16 PM   #12
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I would bump gauges way up the list.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:17 PM   #13
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In something like a slalom with quick transitions, a stiff front sway bar probably improves the "feel" of the car. This does not mean it's increasing front grip, however. The car probably transitions better, but grip will decrease, and the car will be more likely to understeer.

I disagree regarding autocross setup and front sways. Everything else being equal, a car will gain grip with a softer (or removed) front sway. Most autocrossers know this. Here are some examples:

Here's a thread that recommends smaller front sway bars to decrease understeer: http://www.solo2.org/ubb/ultimatebb....45.html#000003

This one (jokingly) recommends using a big front sway bar to add understeer: http://www.solo2.org/cgi-bin/ultimat...pic/4/531.html

This page recommends a smaller front bar or the stock bar for STX unless spring rates are really high: http://www.subrew.com/stx_subie.html

Someone in this thread disconnected the front sway bar in a Mini Cooper S to gain front grip: http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7861

This is a NASIOC thread that recommends disconnecting the front sway (zzyzx drives an Impreza in the same region I'm in): http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show.../t-201412.html
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeeGee
I would bump gauges way up the list.
Forgot that one. If doing those mods these are very important as well.
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:12 PM   #15
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You can run uppipe and turbo back without any other engine mods. Your car will spool alot sooner, and have quite a bit more top end power. This will help everywhere (auto-x, daily driver, highway).

A big brake kit won't help at auto-x or in everyday driving. If you start tracking your car you may want to consider it, but it isn't necessary. Pick up a good set of agressive street pads (Carbotech Bobcats, Axis Ultimates) instead and save a bunch of money. The STi brake lines won't help you stop any sooner either. They will just make the pedal feel better. I would go with Goodridge or Stoptech lines at 1/3 the cost and the same quality.

Strut tower braces won't make a lick of difference in the feel of the car unless you have a seriously modded suspension (coilovers, poly bushings). They are pretty much just for bling until then.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:00 PM   #16
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MO Tein coilovers were the best mod I put on. I've got a wagon so they weren't too expensive. Is more money than springs etc. but the payoff is just sweet.

my mods
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showth...702#post577702
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:16 PM   #17
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The first thing you should do is get a SCCA rule book for autocross mods per class. The last thing you want is a nicely prepped STX class car bumped into modified by one thing you don't really need. Read it twice, then pick the calls you want to be in. Then build to that class. I know you said that autocross is not the primary concern, but it will frustrate you a bunch to get spanked every time you go out because you built a car to the wrong class. Personally, I recommend building up to each class in stages. For discussion, let's start with stock. Yes, you build up to stock.

Building to stock means taking out all of the factory slop and compromises. Tires and bushings come first. You may want to talk to the people that do tech at your location, or you may want to go with the motto that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. Next are shocks, brackets and body. Flex is a killer. Sometimes a rear strut bar will bump you. A sub woofer box will not, even if it bolts to the struts. Think about what you can do to keep the parts working as designed... Since your springs make you STX, you have a lot more you can do. Camber plates, strut bars, sway bars and end links. But, yu have to do the basics before you do the other. It is the little stuff that makes the big differences.

Now on to engine... Remove or modiffy the air silencer. Check the rules to see what hoses you can change after the air cleaner. Find the line in the exhaust where you can change. If you can cut the mid pipe and make it 3 inch all the way to the bumper, you will get very large gains. look at what you can do to retain exhaust heat. This will spool up the turbo faster, and heat retained in the exhaust is not heat going to the IC. Consider coatings if legal.

Now brakes. SS lines will improve feel, which will help a lot. However, only better materials will help you stop. This means that pads and rotors will make the biggest difference. Save your money on the Big Brake Kit...

I raced a Mustang in F stock for a few years. One year at Texas World Speedway, I was bumped to Street Prepared when someone protested my fan. It was a gray area, and I didn't want to mess with a formal challenge. I took forth place in Street Prepared. This is what a car built for the class can give you. I also had another race car that due to the rules was in modified class, but it was street legal. I get spanked regularly by cars with slicks and no interior. That happens when you don't. I hope this gives you something to think about.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:46 PM   #18
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Might as well just buy an STi, it would be cheaper.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by natasatan
Might as well just buy an STi, it would be cheaper.



Def. gauge gauges before you do anything, so you can monitior what was going on then, and what changed when you added a mod.

I would stay away from the whiteline bars, fit crappy, and rust like a mother****er!


-Dave
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: My 2004 WRX Upgrade plan - comments?

You clearly don't want to run in stock

IMHO STX is the best compromise between making the car more fun to drive and being competitive without spending truckloads of cash.

Stuff you should consider adding: struts/springs (STi takeoffs are nice, pretty plentiful and not that expensive; or STi struts with the pink lowering springs) or coilovers. Seats (the bolstering on the 04 sucks). Brake pads (Bobcats). STi Grp N engine mounts (better shifting feel). Kartboy shifter bushing (ditto). Oh yeah, WHEELS AND TIRES! Tires are your #1 handling mod (other than the nut behind the wheel).

Rice: front lip, HID's, shifter trim, pedals, mirrors, badging, rear lip. I am not saying this is bad; I have STi fog covers and the OEM body kit. But you don't need to prioritize this stuff very high.

Brembos: unless you are entering car shows or doing lots of track days, don't bother. Stoptech is cheaper and I have never heard a bad thing about their kit.

Stuff that is legal in STX: rear swaybar, rear endlinks, rear swaybar mounts, downpipe (need a high flow cat), uppipe, brake lines (get Stoptech, much much cheaper), strut tower braces.

Stuff that will bump you out of STX into big-$$$ land: IC hoses, UTEC, fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, hoodscoop, intercooler, new turbo.

Consider swapping: AccessPort instead of UTEC so that you can run in STX with Cobb's STX map.

And yeah - gauges should be high on your list so you know how the car is behaving without mods.

john
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:30 PM   #21
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Buy a used dsm to autocross, take out seats etc.. excellent handling etc.

Build your wrx for the 99.8% rest of your driving. That is probably outlandish to say here, but I autoxed, and just thought "man that was a pretty rude thing I just did to my buddy"

edit: Do not rpr do not go to track with your everyday expensive tires ie 18"mich pilots. . . (not need to tell me 18" rims are no good for autx, ..........but are excellent on country roads)

jmo

I will apologize in advance... ..

Last edited by unkadave; 05-10-2004 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:33 AM   #22
eclip5e
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeeGee
I would bump gauges way up the list.
Any suggestions? Right now i have the Lamco (sic?) boost gauge that was factor installed.

Quote:
Originally posted by ButtDyno
Rice: front lip, HID's, shifter trim, pedals, mirrors, badging, rear lip. I am not saying this is bad; I have STi fog covers and the OEM body kit. But you don't need to prioritize this stuff very high.
Its pretty low on the list already.


Quote:

Consider swapping: AccessPort instead of UTEC so that you can run in STX with Cobb's STX map.

And yeah - gauges should be high on your list so you know how the car is behaving without mods.

john
Can't you swap the maps with the UTEC as well?

Gauge suggestions?
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by eclip5e
Can't you swap the maps with the UTEC as well?

Gauge suggestions?
I forget why, but I think that the UTEC is illegal in STX no matter what you do. You'd have to check Motorsports for sure. I am partial to the Omori gauges, because they match the interior and read in regular English units..

john
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:37 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by yobtah

You may have driven a WRX with a larger front sway bar, but I'm betting more factors (like tire grip or shocks and springs) changed, or you didn't drive it hard enough to notice the increase in understeer.
No, its my car. I drove it for months with the stock front sway bar, then I put the bar on, with everything else the same, and drove it like that for a few months, including autocross.
it absolutely handled better and had (still has ) more front grip with the 22mm front bar. If you think I didnt drive it hard enough, you have never seen me drive
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Old 05-17-2004, 06:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
[i]Originally posted by yobtah
A front sway bar will decrease front grip. When a car corners, compression load on the inside wheel increases. A sway bar converts this loading to torque, and applies some of the torque to the outside wheel. The sway bar basically attempts to balance the compression load between the two wheels.
Actually, the the load is transferred some to the inside wheel... The cars weight pushes the outside wheel in a turn up and then this applies pressure to the inside wheel. Picture it this way... If you are driving in a circle with the left front tire removed but are driving towards the left, then the pressure is only on the outside tire and you would be able to drive without the inside tire.

-Jason
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