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Old 09-08-2019, 01:55 PM   #701
neg_matnik
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Yes, it does.

You're not referencing handling, you're talking about physics. At the limit cornering forces.

Handling is a lot more than that in a street car. Otherwise compare everything to a Lotus Elise, etc. Plenty of big heavy cars handle well. Everyday driving is where good handling means an enjoyable drive. Competitive racing events on tight courses gives lighter weight an advantage. Out on the highway, no so much.

Past a point, lighter weight compromises ride comfort to achieve good handling. The LXT achieves good handling without the compromise. It is aimed to please buyers in that market, not a test bed for boy racers.

Drive one.
Yes, I said I would go out and test drive one; handling is one thing I want to check out for myself but I'm also curious about this 6.1 sec to 60 claim that Subaru is making.
And, yes, I do know that plenty of large heavy cars handle well; my daily driver weighs in at 4,250 lbs - Dodge Charger - and it handles surprisingly well for a land yacht .
I'm not talking about weight in absolute terms; I'm just pointing out that there's a pretty significant weight difference between BM LGT and BN 3.6R.
In addition, as far as we know, the new LXT (BP chassis code?) is not any lighter than the outgoing BN.
So, regardless of the extra rigidity of the SGP, I find it hard to believe that an LXT would out handle an old BM LGT (even with its supposedly lousy handling) - again, there's nearly 300 lbs between the 2 cars -.
I do believe, however, that LXT handling has improved upon the outgoing BN 3.6R.
Also, SeeYa, I don't agree with your statement about Legacy operating in a class of its own.
If Subaru wants to increase Legacy sales figure, they have to convince people that would otherwise buy a classic FWD midsize sedan (or even an inexpensive Dodge Charger like I did).
This means convincing all the buyers that would go after Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Sonata, Altima/Optima and so on. There's no special dispensation for Subaru or Legacy.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:06 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yes, I said I would go out and test drive one; handling is one thing I want to check out for myself but I'm also curious about this 6.1 sec to 60 claim that Subaru is making.
And, yes, I do know that plenty of large heavy cars handle well; my daily driver weighs in at 4,250 lbs - Dodge Charger - and it handles surprisingly well for a land yacht .
I'm not talking about weight in absolute terms; I'm just pointing out that there's a pretty significant weight difference between BM LGT and BN 3.6R.
In addition, as far as we know, the new LXT (BP chassis code?) is not any lighter than the outgoing BN.
So, regardless of the extra rigidity of the SGP, I find it hard to believe that an LXT would out handle an old BM LGT (even with its supposedly lousy handling) - again, there's nearly 300 lbs between the 2 cars -.
I do believe, however, that LXT handling has improved upon the outgoing BN 3.6R.
Also, SeeYa, I don't agree with your statement about Legacy operating in a class of its own.
If Subaru wants to increase Legacy sales figure, they have to convince people that would otherwise buy a classic FWD midsize sedan (or even an inexpensive Dodge Charger like I did).
This means convincing all the buyers that would go after Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Sonata, Altima/Optima and so on. There's no special dispensation for Subaru or Legacy.
I hear you. You make sense and are open minded.

I'm looking forward to your impressions after driving one... and how you have to admit the SGP really does what it's hyped up to do.

I'm betting on it. You might even consider trading that Charger for one. You're a perfect example of the type of discerning public for which the LXT was designed.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:20 PM   #703
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The '15 3.6R was about 200 lbs heavier than the outgoing '14 3.6R and nearly 300 lbs heavier than the last '12 LGT.
The LXT is about the same weight as the outgoing '15 3.6R.
IMO, it's hard to improve handling and "hide" the extra 200 to 300 lbs.
Just for information, the 2017 Accord V6 Touring curb weight was in the 3550 to 3600 lbs range; the 2018 Accord 2.0T Touring weighs in at 3430 lbs *and* it's larger inside and out than the outgoing car.
Less weight; that's how the competition is improving things. Just saying "SGP" does not magically improve things.

I don't disagree that "just saying SGP" means anything had I not had expectations based on the Impreza switch to it and the massive improvement it made, then the Crosstrek, then the Forester. I don't include Ascent cause there isn't really anything to compare. IF you want to compare to Tribeca, then OF COURSE it was an improvement. The Forester just reinforced what the SGP truly is. I knew and was excited to feel how it translated to the Legacy and Outback, and it does the same. I have HIGH hopes/expectations for WRX/STI now.


You should really go find some SGP and pre-SGP cars and drive them back to back. Night and day.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:32 PM   #704
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I hear you. You make sense and are open minded.

I'm looking forward to your impressions after driving one... and how you have to admit the SGP really does what it's hyped up to do.

I'm betting on it. You might even consider trading that Charger for one. You're a perfect example of the type of discerning public for which the LXT was designed.
Yes, absolutely, I'll report back on my LXT test drive asap; I'm also thinking about test driving an Outback XT first since there are already at the dealer.
And, true, I could trade/sale the Charger in and my beloved 06 WRX Wagon as well for an LXT.
But, if I'm being honest with myself, I'm really looking for another good wagon to replace my WRX Wagon.
The Charger was/is a stopgap vehicle until I find what I really want. We'll see.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:36 PM   #705
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Where do you live in Ma? I have one.



--kC


Leominster. My sister comes home quite frequently, so Iíll have to make a point to take it for a spin next time. Not too enthralled with my Ď16 Legacy
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:15 PM   #706
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Leominster. My sister comes home quite frequently, so I’ll have to make a point to take it for a spin next time. Not too enthralled with my ‘16 Legacy
Leominster? Is roller coaster road still out your way? Now that drive will tell something about a car's suspension.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:49 PM   #707
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Lightweight suspension components, including hollow anti-roll bars and aluminum control arms, cut a claimed 38 pounds from the Legacy's curb weight. Subaru's Global Platform makes increased use of structural adhesives and high-strength steel, yielding a unibody that's 70-percent stiffer torsionally and 100-percent stiffer laterally. This new construction, coupled with revised brake-based torque-vectoring and all-wheel-drive systems, improves the Legacy’s driving experience. Subaru says the 2020 model is the best-handling Legacy ever, and it probably is, but it still lacks the crisp steering and overall agility of the Honda Accord. And while it matches the Accord's ride comfort, it lacks the Honda's playfulness.
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Subaru has done a fine job updating its mid-size sedan. It is vastly improved, both in driving satisfaction and cabin comfort. The turbocharged engine is the one to get, however, as much for its more refined nature as its added oomph. Even with it, the Legacy is no sports sedan, but it doesn't need to be. Subaru has done everything else right by making it a comfortable, capable, and confident cruiser with a spacious cabin, improved fuel economy, and handsome styling.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-legacy-drive/


More milk toast reviews. All of them are the same ho hum pat on the back description of the Legacy XT. So underwhelming.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:36 PM   #708
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-legacy-drive/


More milk toast reviews. All of them are the same ho hum pat on the back description of the Legacy XT. So underwhelming.

THAT'S what it is. You were expecting something else/more from Subaru. Even I have lowered my expectations knowing what they are going for at this juncture. IF they give us something "spectacular", then that is a great plus. My expectations at this point are a better car. This is. By a lot. The Legacy has set sales records with each generation. They do this by conquesting those Accord and Camry buyers. Who vastly don't buy them for "crisp" steering as they are just buying a "Honda" or "Toyota" by reputation. Now, with the buying trend of today's customers, it will be interesting to see if this Legacy can set yet another record.

Subaru expects to end their streak this month. Even setting a lower objective. Lets see what the dealers can do.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:07 AM   #709
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THAT'S what it is. You were expecting something else/more from Subaru. Even I have lowered my expectations knowing what they are going for at this juncture. IF they give us something "spectacular", then that is a great plus. My expectations at this point are a better car. This is. By a lot. The Legacy has set sales records with each generation. They do this by conquesting those Accord and Camry buyers. Who vastly don't buy them for "crisp" steering as they are just buying a "Honda" or "Toyota" by reputation. Now, with the buying trend of today's customers, it will be interesting to see if this Legacy can set yet another record.

Subaru expects to end their streak this month. Even setting a lower objective. Lets see what the dealers can do.
Goddamitt Jim. YES!
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #710
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Goddamitt Jim. YES!
You haven't been paying attention for a long time now...
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:49 AM   #711
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Leominster? Is roller coaster road still out your way? Now that drive will tell something about a car's suspension.


Haha yes it is. Still not used to going over it
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:32 AM   #712
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Leominster? Is roller coaster road still out your way? Now that drive will tell something about a car's suspension.
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Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
Haha yes it is. Still not used to going over it
I bring that road up here because it is an example of something I mention time to time about driving in WV... sometimes the handling and horsepower of motorized things are the subject of the physical laws of the road themselves. You recognize and obey them or else.

If I still lived in NE you can be sure I'd take my SGP Impreza there, too, just as I did all my cars and bikes. And every time the road won. You either obey or suffer the penalties.

One thing I can predict, however. My Imp would do better than some of the iron I tried to hustle down that evil road. But only by degree... just like here. All the horsepower and handling in the world sometimes come up against The Road's rules... and all things become equal. Then fastest is up to courage and the accuracy of the driver at coming close to breaking those laws.

Medivac is busy in these parts.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:01 AM   #713
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You haven't been paying attention for a long time now...
Gaslighter.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:12 PM   #714
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Gaslighter.
Speaking of which, I just grilled my first set of burgers EVER last week! Gas grill, no less! Am I officially an adult now?
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:28 PM   #715
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I don't disagree that "just saying SGP" means anything had I not had expectations based on the Impreza switch to it and the massive improvement it made, then the Crosstrek, then the Forester. I don't include Ascent cause there isn't really anything to compare. IF you want to compare to Tribeca, then OF COURSE it was an improvement. The Forester just reinforced what the SGP truly is. I knew and was excited to feel how it translated to the Legacy and Outback, and it does the same. I have HIGH hopes/expectations for WRX/STI now.


You should really go find some SGP and pre-SGP cars and drive them back to back. Night and day.
I need to find some remaining '19 3.6R on the dealer's lot; probably extremely few left, if any.
I expect handling to be different, in favor of the LXT, but I'm also curious about HTCVT differences between the 2 cars. I'll report back asap.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:46 PM   #716
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-legacy-drive/


More milk toast reviews. All of them are the same ho hum pat on the back description of the Legacy XT. So underwhelming.
"Still, true sports-sedan status is denied the Legacy on account of too much pitch and roll as well as light steering and a mushy brake pedal. The ride quality, while on the comfortable side, isn't as smooth as the exaggerated body motions suggest. And the all-season tires don't advance the sports-sedan cause, either. Braking from 70 mph took a longish 195 feet, and skidpad grip was 0.83 g."

That is what Car and Driver said about the Subaru Legacy...2.5GT in 2006.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...erm-road-test/

While I have not had a chance to drive the new Legacy, it sounds like the new XT is alot like the old GT. With that said...Subaru, can you provide us with a Spec B Model please.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:13 PM   #717
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2022 Subaru Legacy XT Spec B RA-R type C S210 STI, baby!
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:35 PM   #718
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"Still, true sports-sedan status is denied the Legacy on account of too much pitch and roll as well as light steering and a mushy brake pedal. The ride quality, while on the comfortable side, isn't as smooth as the exaggerated body motions suggest. And the all-season tires don't advance the sports-sedan cause, either. Braking from 70 mph took a longish 195 feet, and skidpad grip was 0.83 g."

That is what Car and Driver said about the Subaru Legacy...2.5GT in 2006.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...erm-road-test/

While I have not had a chance to drive the new Legacy, it sounds like the new XT is alot like the old GT. With that said...Subaru, can you provide us with a Spec B Model please.
Yes exactly. The SGP should have fixed everything wrong with the BL/BP they addressed in that review. Not still come in behind an old offering from Honda in the segment. IMHO I want this car to run circles around my Legacy GT. Otherwise I'll keep fixing it and fixing it and fixing it because it's a wagon and Subaru don't wagon.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:06 PM   #719
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Yes exactly. The SGP should have fixed everything wrong with the BL/BP they addressed in that review. Not still come in behind an old offering from Honda in the segment. IMHO I want this car to run circles around my Legacy GT. Otherwise I'll keep fixing it and fixing it and fixing it because it's a wagon and Subaru don't wagon.
Well, what it took me to make my LGT into what I wanted power and handling wise, made it into something no one looking for a LXT would want.

The new Legacy XT is the grown up version of that.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:30 PM   #720
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Well, what it took me to make my LGT into what I wanted power and handling wise, made it into something no one looking for a LXT would want.

The new Legacy XT is the grown up version of that.
Yes I want a grown up better version I donít need to fiddle with. My car is bone stock. Iím really only wanting a bigger WRX with the FA24 engine. Lackluster looks, price, no VTD CVT etc already has me wanting to wait for the SGP WRX instead of bothering with a LXT.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:46 PM   #721
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Duh, I somehow missed the post directly above this one. Other than wagon, I think you'd like the new one. Unless you want that harsher ride. This one just corners flatter than the last one that was flatter than that, that was flatter than yours.

Last edited by JustyWRC; 09-09-2019 at 06:51 PM. Reason: I have a problem reading.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:49 PM   #722
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Nope just cosmetics. Clean and quiet. Stock suspension.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:51 PM   #723
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Nope just cosmetics. Clean and quiet. Stock suspension.
Dang. Beat my edit.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:04 PM   #724
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I beat edits and horses here. lol

So I will have to drive it and compare to my '05. I've owned the BM Legacy sedan so I know how that generation handles and as I've already mentioned I was not impressed with the current gen either. It just FELT big.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:46 PM   #725
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I beat edits and horses here. lol

So I will have to drive it and compare to my '05. I've owned the BM Legacy sedan so I know how that generation handles and as I've already mentioned I was not impressed with the current gen either. It just FELT big.
Who knows, maybe the LXT will reveal that you're older than you think you are?
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