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Old 11-03-2005, 12:58 PM   #26
2dino
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Smile Congratulation on the succesful install.

"gills --stall was a success. "

Catching up with your original thread.

Having read this trouble of yours & others in the thread I am very leery of tackling the caliper removal myself for rotor replacement especially mine have been on since new 60k km ago over 2 winters.

I most likely will let dealer work on it as insurance.
In case anything goes wrong they work it out with Brembo.

Now the hunt for non-slotted one-piece quality rotor....

Cheers
@dino
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:06 PM   #27
thrdeye
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I made a thread about this when it happened to my prodrive. Here is a copy/paste

Well, the threads stripped out of my caliper where the banjo bolt screws in. I was trying to stop it from leaking, which it somehow started doing during an autocross.

So after listening to some suggestions, I fixed it with a helicoil kit. I didn't even know that such a a thing existed before this problem. A helicoil is a small spring that you can insert into a stripped hole that will replace the original threads and maintain the same size.

Tools required:

1)Drill
2)Helicoil kit (will come with helicoils, specific drill bit, specific tap, specific insertion tool.)
3)Basic tools for attaching/removing brake caliper, lines, etc.
4)Vice grips

I have some pretty expensive brakes, so buying a new caliper is a bit of problem ($$$$). Obviously, if you have stock brakes, the best option would be a remanufactured caliper (and probably would not be much more expensive than the helicoil kit) - or you could consider this upgrade time. Also, follow my procedure at your own risk.

Here is what the caliper looked like. It would not hold any torque on the bolt.




First, you go buy a helicoil kit for your specific application (i.e. make sure you have the correct size). This will take some calling before you can find a place that keeps a lot of them in stock.

The size of the stock banjo bolt is 10mmx1.0 (thanks Scooby South!)

1) Use the application-specific drill bit provided with the helicoil kit to drill out the old hole.

**MAKE SURE that you go in straight when you drill. I would not got at it at with the full power of the drill, either - modulate the throttle. If you go in at an angle, the bolt will not mount flush with the caliper and you will be done - there will be no second chances and fluid will leak out everywhere. This means that your brake will not work.

**Also, when drilling, take your time. Don't drill the entire hole all at once. Drill a little bit, then tap out the shavings so that they do not get into the caliper. (I pulled out the vacuum cleaner, opened up the bleeder valves on the caliper, and sucked out the shavings) I did this very often. I took about 5 shots at getting the entire thing drilled out. This kept debris to a minimum.

2) Use the application-specific TAP that is provided with the helicoil kit to TAP new threads.

**Again, make sure you go in straight.

**Go slow and steady. You can use some cutting oil if you like. I just poured some brake fluid on it.

**I used vice grips as a makeshift T-handle on the TAP. A t-handle would be ideal as it will be tourqing from both sides. A vice-grip can get out of control if you're not careful as it is pretty heavy. Only attempt the vice grips if you have a steady hand. I would not use a power tool for this unless you know what you're doing (I didn't[know what I was doing])

**After you've gone all the way to the bottom of the hole, screw the tap out of there, and then run it back through once more, making sure you find the threads and are not trying to cut new ones.

You should end up with something like this and you will be ready to thread in the helicoil.



3) Clean up the hole, suck out the debris, etc.

**You cannot clean up the caliper enough. MAKE CERTAIN that there are no large pieces of crap that will damage the inside of the caliper.

4) Thread the helicoil into the hole, using the supplied insertion tool.

**My kit came with a "pre-threader" that helps get it started for fine-thread applications. I could not get the helicoil in without this accesory.

**I didn't use the entire helicoil. I only used enough to get down to the top of the fluid passage holes in the caliper. I left some of the helicoil sticking out and trimmed it with snips.

This is the final product:



After this, I sucked it out one more time and test fitted the banjo bolt. It worked perfectly. According to what I've heard. The threads should now be stronger than new.

Here is a link with more info about helicoil and how it works: Helicoil Information
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:31 PM   #28
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That torque spec seems rather high - 115 lb-ft into aluminum??

And it will likely seize no matter your environment because it's steel into aluminum and you get galvanic corrosion.

I always find removing seized bolts using impact instead of a long breaker bar to 'pop' it loose without damaging the threads. Some liberal applicatiosn of PB Blaster and some time may help loosen it also.

I'd be real nervous drilling out the banjo bolt hole - I'd think you'd want to dissassemble the caliper to make sure you get no chips inside the caliper.
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Old 09-08-2006, 09:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken View Post
galvanic corrosion is what you speak of. Just like how stainless spring perches will nicely corode themselves onto aluminum threaded coil-overs.
A bit late to the party, so dunno if anyone is paying attention anymore, but how would bolts like those sold below fare in this situation?

http://www.eagleday.com/hexcapbolts.html

And galvanic corrosion requires an electrolyte, so this should most affect folks in the winter belt -- simple heat cycling shouldn't cause these kinds of problems, right?
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Old 09-08-2006, 10:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken View Post
Just like how stainless spring perches will nicely corode themselves onto aluminum threaded coil-overs.
you have it backwards - stainless will drive dissolution of aluminum, not the other way around (hard to argue with thermodynamics...)
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Old 09-08-2006, 10:31 PM   #31
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....and a bit of waterproof grease, applied prior to installation, goes a LONG way toward inhibiting many corrosion issues
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
....and a bit of waterproof grease, applied prior to installation, goes a LONG way toward inhibiting many corrosion issues
I'm curious: what's your way of accounting for the grease affecting the fastening torque? Reduce the torque by x%?
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:34 PM   #33
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Man, I guess this is more complicated than just grease or no grease. It's probably not a good idea to use non-OEM fasteners to bolt down the calipers, since the following reference (http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_2.htm) says that (emphasis mine):

Quote:
From a strength and preload standpoint the ideal steel fastener would have a plain black finish, (sometimes called a light oil finish)...This finish would be unacceptable on a bike since it corrodes easily. The common solution is to apply a zinc or cadmium plating to prevent corrosion, and apply a conversion coating such as chromate to keep the finish looking nice...The torque-tension relationship is greatly affected by plating due to its effect on the friction coefficient. Cadmium plating reduces the friction by 25% and zinc plating increases the friction up to 40%. This requires a corresponding 25% reduction or 40% increase in required torque for the same tension. Stainless steel fasteners have a friction coefficient about two times the corresponding plain steel fastener. This does not mean that stainless fasteners require double the specified torque since they usually cannot achieve the strength of a steel fastener.
So it seems that whatever material the bolts are made out of, they had better have a similar surface treatment as the OEM bolts for the torque values given in the FSM to be relevant...

Still, that leaves the grease question open...
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:04 PM   #34
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hey all, sorry to bring a post like this back from the dead, but i had my front driver side and rear driver side calipers both strip 1 bolt. I think helicoil is the way i want to go but im not sure if the rear is the same threads/length as the front, also if you could point me in the direction of where to buy a good kit from id appreciate it!!

thanks for any help you guys can give me.

~Kris
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Old 04-06-2007, 08:09 PM   #35
SPEN555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrD View Post
you have it backwards - stainless will drive dissolution of aluminum, not the other way around (hard to argue with thermodynamics...)
I know this is an old thread but I have the same problem, poor thread in a Brembo caliper.

Have people who have helicoiled found it to be a success or has the above quote mean it has been unsuccessful?
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:20 AM   #36
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Yesterday i got the same problem with me brembo caliper on the back. I remove the caliper drill throught the broken bolt until i can drill 11/32( Not sure of the size) . After a tapped with the stock size and just put a home depot bolt until the end of week end to buy one a the dealer monday.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:01 AM   #37
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revive from the dead....

I have the same problem yesterday, 'cept it was with the rear driver-side caliper and the front bleeder valve. Removed the bleeder valve to replace it with a speed bleeder and it came out toast. Threads all gone. My question is the helicoil kits, how much material around the helicoil do you need? the place where the bleeder valve goes into isn't all that thick to begin with nor deep. The M10x1.0 helicoil is 15mm is length. Can I shave that depth wise to fit? and how big of a external diameter is that? Thanks a lot.

Don

edit: looked around some more, found that timesert has different lengths and are 11mm in diameter. That's roughy the diameter of the nut on the bleeder valve. (11mm wrench to open). I guess the question for me still remains, is this a safe\viable option to salvage the caliper? or should I just bite the bullet and pick-up a new one? ugh.

Last edited by wistful; 10-16-2007 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:49 AM   #38
thrdeye
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You aren't going to be taking a lot of material away to install the helicoil, I would give it a shot, myself. I don't think it would weaken it substantially.

But, it's your car and your safety, so, it's your call.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:53 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FromageTheDog View Post
I'm curious: what's your way of accounting for the grease affecting the fastening torque? Reduce the torque by x%?
silver antiseize = mult. by .90
grease with copper, graphite, aluminum flakes mult by .85
phosphate and oil mult. by .95
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wistful View Post
revive from the dead....

I have the same problem yesterday, 'cept it was with the rear driver-side caliper and the front bleeder valve. Removed the bleeder valve to replace it with a speed bleeder and it came out toast. Threads all gone. My question is the helicoil kits, how much material around the helicoil do you need? the place where the bleeder valve goes into isn't all that thick to begin with nor deep. The M10x1.0 helicoil is 15mm is length. Can I shave that depth wise to fit? and how big of a external diameter is that? Thanks a lot.

Don

edit: looked around some more, found that timesert has different lengths and are 11mm in diameter. That's roughy the diameter of the nut on the bleeder valve. (11mm wrench to open). I guess the question for me still remains, is this a safe\viable option to salvage the caliper? or should I just bite the bullet and pick-up a new one? ugh.

the company that makes 'speed-bleeders' makes specific re-thread kits for calipers

search for it
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:42 PM   #41
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Bumping an old thread...

I actually re-drilled and tapped for a larger Allen head bolt M12. Unfortunately, I also had to open up the steering knuckle that the Brembo is attached to. This was two summers ago. Fortunately, I haven't had a need to take the caliper off since. But I will be doing that this spring. Here's hoping I won't need new knuckles and calipers...
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:21 PM   #42
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You always have time and keen serts.

Those are both a much better solution then helicoils.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:32 PM   #43
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Bump... Went to replace the rotors today and when I went to take off the first caliper (drivers front) I was pwned by the bolt siezing at the very tip (end) of it to the caliper. As I was backing out the bolt with my hulk strength I ended up raping all the aluminum threads.

Going to try the Heli-Coil and avoid paying for a replacement caliper!
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:33 PM   #44
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Bump... Went to replace the rotors today and when I went to take off the first caliper (drivers front) I was pwned by the bolt siezing at the very tip (end) of it to the caliper. As I was backing out the bolt with my hulk strength I ended up raping all the aluminum threads.

Going to try the Heli-Coil and avoid paying for a replacement caliper!
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:15 PM   #45
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Sounds like a once a year maintenance item remove caliper bolts, toss on some anti seize, and replace.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:54 PM   #46
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Having this problem today and heli-coiling it. Anyone here had problems with that over time?
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:14 PM   #47
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Ugh. Stripped the threads in my left front caliper. Have the Helicoil kit on order and will attempt when it arrives. I agree that 114.3 ftlbs seems very excessive for these bolts into an aluminum caliper.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:23 PM   #48
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even the regular 2 pot calipers only need something like 58ft/lbs to bolt onto the hubs...
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximumyin View Post
Having this problem today and heli-coiling it. Anyone here had problems with that over time?
I've been a year+ with the RF having one helicoil. No problems with lots of autox events. I have not tracked recently, but I would (though I'd be checking torque between sessions to be sure).
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:04 AM   #50
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bump for a good read and lots of information... gotta do my helicoil today, thanks brembo for ensuring that all bolts brake when trying to remove from your setup... maybe they could pre-helicoil their calipers, just an idea????????
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