Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday November 29, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2020, 05:32 PM   #226
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Red Car
2019 Blue Car

Default

IMO, it is a characteristic of the dual VVT. When the valve timing is set for good torque at low RPM (gas mileage, daily driving) and good power at high RPM (performance), the mid band doesn***8217;t get any optimization. If this engine maxed out at 6500RPM, the timing target points would be different in the VVT and there would be more overlap. I***8217;m fine with it just like I was with the old car. Drive for efficiency or give it the beans. No half measures.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 11-18-2020, 05:36 PM   #227
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

Or is it characteristic of D4S in the boxer somehow. Not necessarily by design, but as a consequence somehow when managing the injectors and which does what, when.
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 05:36 PM   #228
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Did the old VTEC Honda 1.6/1.8/2.0 have a dip like that? I don't remember anyone complaining about it.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 05:42 PM   #229
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
1999 2002 WRX Donor
93 FWD Base Impreza Autox

Default

Did anyone else notice the factory oil cooler???

That was the first major mod I did with my 2013, and it makes a big difference with this motor. Glad its included now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Or is it characteristic of D4S in the boxer somehow. Not necessarily by design, but as a consequence somehow when managing the injectors and which does what, when.
Every N/A Subaru boxer has had a torque dip at that same area, it was just more pronounced with the BRZ being small displacement and low torque to start with.

I blame the intake manfiold and header design, mostly the intake manifold. Porsche alleviated their torque dips with variable intake manifolds.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 05:56 PM   #230
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

Interesting. Guess I never really noticed it in the NA boxers Iíve had. But those have all been auto/cvt too so I wasnít exactly using it for performance.
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:00 PM   #231
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Red Car
2019 Blue Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Interesting. Guess I never really noticed it in the NA boxers Iíve had. But those have all been auto/cvt too so I wasnít exactly using it for performance.

Their VVT timing advance and retard targets for the intake and exhaust cams would have not been nearly as aggressive as the FA20 and FA24. There is a reason that the FB20 and FB25 only made 160 and 190hp.
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:01 PM   #232
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post

Compared to the Gen 1 and ND2 Miata:

Power-to-weight for the lightest models:
BRZ Gen1: 2798 lbs/205 hp = 13.65 lbs/hp
ND2 Miata: 2341 lbs/181 hp = 12.93 lbs/hp
BRZ Gen2: 2815 lbs/228 hp = 12.35 lbs/hp

[/b]
Just to be complete for a more "hardtop" comparison, since not everyone wants a convertible:

ND2 Miata RF: 2452 lbs/181 hp = 13.55 lbs/hp
subyski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:07 PM   #233
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Red Car
2019 Blue Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
And then of course the new found torque:
BRZ Gen1: 156 lb-ft @ 6400 RPM
ND2 Miata: 151 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
BRZ Gen2: 184 lb-ft @ 3,700 RPM
The FA20 made near peak at ~3000RPM, too.

quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:10 PM   #234
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
rear seats are good for insurance.

you can fold them down easily and (at least on the existing car) they fold flat.
Indeed. If folds flat, that sounds good. Can hear the exhaust better too.
oichan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:17 PM   #235
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

I need a rear seat. Even if itís vestigial I can still push the passenger seat all the way forward and fit my daughters booster in the back in a pinch.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:29 PM   #236
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Yeah, nobody cared about the torque dip in the old NA EJ25s because there was still plenty of torque in the dip (it was more like a 5% dip where the FA20 had a 10% dip). it was only really evident on a dyno chart. Most butt dynos weren't tuned with a precise enough sensor and the stock UEL headers made a nice little rumble that made everything more forgivable.

This new dash dyno chart and the official figures suggest a better breathing engine than the last NA Civic Si (K24)... and those motors were a delight. I loved my 2.4L ILX. It was quite a quick car.

Watch, the 5-60mph tests for the new BRZ are going to be impressive.

The old K24 Civic Si had a 5-60 of 6.4s with a similar curb weight and a lot less torque.
BRZ: 7.2s
WRX: 7.0s
STI: 7.1s
ND1: 6.6s
ND2: 6.5s

A lot of stock WRX owners are going to start to feel insecure about their turbo performance after driving a BRZ.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:41 PM   #237
Straight6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 419593
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Yeah, nobody cared about the torque dip in the old NA EJ25s because there was still plenty of torque in the dip (it was more like a 5% dip where the FA20 had a 10% dip). it was only really evident on a dyno chart. Most butt dynos weren't tuned with a precise enough sensor and the stock UEL headers made a nice little rumble that made everything more forgivable.

This new dash dyno chart and the official figures suggest a better breathing engine than the last NA Civic Si (K24)... and those motors were a delight. I loved my 2.4L ILX. It was quite a quick car.

Watch, the 5-60mph tests for the new BRZ are going to be impressive.

The old K24 Civic Si had a 5-60 of 6.4s with a similar curb weight and a lot less torque.
BRZ: 7.2s
WRX: 7.0s
STI: 7.1s
ND1: 6.6s
ND2: 6.5s

A lot of stock WRX owners are going to start to feel insecure about their turbo performance after driving a BRZ.


Doubt it, WRX can be quicker.


2015 WRX 6 MT
5-60 6.3
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

2015 WRX CVT
5-60 6.4
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-test-review/

Last edited by Straight6; 11-18-2020 at 06:46 PM.
Straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:41 PM   #238
fathatch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 278626
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Raleigh, NC
Vehicle:
2001 S2000

Default

Regarding the torque dip, this is not unusual behavior for a N/A four cylinder. In fact there's a torque dip on my AP1 S2000 (when stock) of about 5% from 3500 to 6000. I owned a SVT focus that exhibited similar behavior (Even with a variable length intake manifold). The magnitude of the dip was just more significant on the BRZ.
fathatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 06:43 PM   #239
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A car lounge in the midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

The new torque dip is acceptable for me if that line is an actual data from the new engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
A lot of stock WRX owners are going to start to feel insecure about their turbo performance after driving a BRZ.
You okay? This post and the other post stating 'Accords are gorgeous'? You on something?
oichan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 07:23 PM   #240
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Doubt it, WRX can be quicker.


2015 WRX 6 MT
5-60 6.3
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

2015 WRX CVT
5-60 6.4
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-test-review/
I was using R&T's numbers: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ru-wrx-vs-sti/

but C&D's own test of the '18 WRX shows the same 7.1s: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 07:48 PM   #241
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I was using R&T's numbers: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ru-wrx-vs-sti/

but C&D's own test of the '18 WRX shows the same 7.1s: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/
It's almost like both the WRX and the STI got slower in 2018 refresh.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 07:48 PM   #242
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

The R&T numbers were for the 2015 cars.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 08:16 PM   #243
Altephor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 429442
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX Limited
CWP

Default

Oof, hate the redesign.

Biggest pet peeve is the back end, completely ruins the lines of the car. You have the beautiful widening rear fenders and then it looks like someone pinched the back of the car so it wouldn't be 'too wide'.

Might have been saved with a wide, flat spoiler extending out like the outgoing models had but that lip monstrosity is terrible.

Looks like someone tried to design a Porsche on a Honda budget.
Altephor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 08:25 PM   #244
Shapingo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 324291
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Philadelphia (suburbs)
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
WRB

Default

I think it looks a lot better on film than in still pics

Shapingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 08:41 PM   #245
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

I'm still not in love with the appearance, but I bet a tS or STI version would look great. It needs to big wing from the older tS to balance out the more aggressive front lip.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 08:45 PM   #246
DougNuts
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 192568
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Georgetown, KY
Vehicle:
2015 Outback 3.6R
2018 F150 3.5TT

Default

I always assumed the torque dip was due to fueling and timing strategies in place to help fend off knock.
DougNuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 08:46 PM   #247
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

Will check insurance tomorrow. If my speciality carrier will do it, f me I may be buying one and putting a deposit down. In silver. Anything more than 2 doors I cannot insure cheap so it may be time to whip it out and get another car! I like it a lot. I love the looks, and the power bump may be just enough until the blower comes out for it
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 09:04 PM   #248
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
18 Highlander
Yami XSR

Default

this thing looks great.

not sure I could swing it with a family of four, but I'll give it some thought.
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 09:14 PM   #249
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

I think THIS is the BRZ to get for anyone who's been holding off. I don't know if I'd buy another one, but if I did I'd certainly get the tS version.
chanomatik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 09:32 PM   #250
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
.. and the power bump may be just enough until the blower comes out for it
Forced induction will be difficult with the 13.5:1 compression ratio. Maybe a bit of boost on E85.

A supercharged FA24DIT in a ~2850 lb BRZ does sound appealing

I think we'll see some decent gains in NA form with bolt-ons and E85 to take advantage of the high compression ratio.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 11-19-2020 at 01:55 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.