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Old 10-05-2020, 04:25 PM   #26
dwf137
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rear quarter shot looks like the old Hyundai Genesis, minus the droopy rear window.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimateone View Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/CF90APyp...d=cl6jowu1t038

More sneak pics

And I 100% believe it will be 30k and up
I'm not sure if I see a protuberance in the front hood or it is the background making some weird effect.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:52 PM   #28
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$30K sounds about right (sadly) given that they already start at around $28K right now.

A base MX-5 starts at $26.5K and can get up to mid-30s with options. I haven't driven either car so I can't compare driving dynamics (aka the main and probably only reason you'd buy one of these things) but the new BRZ better be damn good if it's gonna start at that much higher than the MX-5.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
rear quarter shot looks like the old Hyundai Genesis, minus the droopy rear window.
My first thought too, but going back and looking at the old Genesis coupe, doesn't look anything like it. Weird.
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Old 10-05-2020, 10:25 PM   #30
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Last edited by Stickee; 10-05-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:42 PM   #31
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So nice you posted twice. I dig it.

I do find the thought of owning an updated BRZ to be very tempting. Unfortunately I just want more room for stuff for my primary car. I'd definitely get one as secondary car though.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:18 AM   #32
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Rear looks like a Genesis and the front side view looks Porsche to me!
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Stanley072.5i View Post
Rear looks like a Genesis and the front side view looks Porsche to me!
And here I see 2nd gen DSM in the rear. (Tail light going up instead of down)

--kC
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:53 AM   #34
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I've like what I've seen as far as exterior design so far.

I hope the wheel/tire offset is not super sunken in and wheel gap has an even arch.
If they got rid of the 5K dip on the new motor that is a huge plus.
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Stanley072.5i View Post
Rear looks like a Genesis and the front side view looks Porsche to me!
100% agree
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:09 AM   #36
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Very excited for this. I am actually happy to see it will remain NA as i feel it is a signature characteristic of the car and supports its purity. Design looks very tidy as well.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:19 PM   #37
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100% agree
The front profile really DOES look like a Porsche. I'm liking the aggressive vent aft of the front fender. It's like a current WRX vent but more aggressive looking.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:04 PM   #38
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Very excited for this. I am actually happy to see it will remain NA as i feel it is a signature characteristic of the car and supports its purity. Design looks very tidy as well.
We better hope for NO weight gain because +12 hp and +21 ft.lbs (at their respective peaks) can only go so far.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:12 PM   #39
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We better hope for NO weight gain because +12 hp and +21 ft.lbs (at their respective peaks) can only go so far.
If they remove the ****ty torque dip the area under the curve is going to increase a lot more than the max numbers suggest.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:13 PM   #40
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because +12 hp and +21 ft.lbs (at their respective peaks) can only go so far.
If that's all it is and nothing else changes, I doubt you'd be able to even notice much. If they fix the torque dip, it could be an entire new experience. Regardless, I still hope they eventually come out with a hot version that is more than just visuals, accessories, and a unique paint color.
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:10 PM   #41
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21lb ft is a noticeable gain. And since this car is all about perceptual speed, removing the 5K dip alone might do the trick.
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:16 PM   #42
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it's relative, and at the relative starting point of 156, it is a 13% gain, that is noticeable.

the 5tq difference they tuned in for the 2017 and newer, that is not noticeable.

granted, if the starting point was 37tq, and you increased by 5tq, you'd notice that too.

I remember going to a cobb stage 1 on my 2004 wrx, it provided a 20tq bump over stock, it was absolutely a noticeable change over the stock 217tq.

presuming the gains are pretty flat, this will be very noticeable.
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:58 PM   #43
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Turbo boost is not equivalent to NA bump. That's the entire argument for wanting a tunable turbo engine vs. a meh starting point with meager bumps in output over a couple decades. See Z.
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:19 PM   #44
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Turbo boost is not equivalent to NA bump. That's the entire argument for wanting a tunable turbo engine vs. a meh starting point with meager bumps in output over a couple decades. See Z.
I agree.. but arguing that point with BRZ fans appear pointless because they don't care to actually go fast. What they desire is perceived speed and handling in their own little world. I just let them be as it's harmless to me.
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:39 PM   #45
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I would prefer a 325hp/325tq BRZ that was an actual legitimately fast car that handles well. However, a similarly fun/fast slightly more practical Miata alternative BRZ isn't bad either.

They're both compelling in the current marketplace in different ways. In either case, the onus is on Subaru to produce a good car. A BRZ with the tuning of an S209 is **** regardless of its horsepower.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:26 PM   #46
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I don't get why they don't offer NA and turbo as options, satisfy both camps.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Turbo boost is not equivalent to NA bump. That's the entire argument for wanting a tunable turbo engine vs. a meh starting point with meager bumps in output over a couple decades. See Z.
yup, no doubt, driving your car, then plugging in a tuner, and 15 minutes later driving the same car around the block is something very easy to perceive the difference that 13% torque increase brings.

someone would have to compare the previous BRZ to the current BRZ, drive them back to back to feel the change.

someone who was test driving an ecoboost Mustang, then test drives the new BRZ is probably still going to feel let down in the straights 13% difference or not.

as oichan mentions, most of us that own a BRZ do so because of the handling characteristics, not for their ability to pass on the straights. so yeah, tossing a 13% torque boost in there is pretty big.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:17 PM   #48
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I don't get why they don't offer NA and turbo as options, satisfy both camps.
Yeah, unfortunately sometimes overwhelming cost kills dreams.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:20 PM   #49
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I don't get why they don't offer NA and turbo as options, satisfy both camps.
Yup. I understand that, for the 1st gen, Subaru had no suitable N/A engines AND no suitable turbo engines (Toyota was never going to allow dinosaur EJ25 turbo into a GT86).
They HAD TO destroke FB20 to get a reliable higher rev'ing engine (FB20 had too much stroke to rev comfortably and 129.X mm rods are not helping either).
But, today, we have FA20DIT and FA24DIT; seems like re-engineering FA24DIT to make good NA power is just costly masochism, IMO.
I'd drop the 205-hp FA20 as is into the 2nd gen for those who demand uncorrupted NA power and then I'd drop either FA20DIT or FA24DIT as an optional engine for those who don't mind turbo power delivery.
But, then again, maybe it just doesn't make financial sense to offer 2 engines in a car like this. Don't know.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:22 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yup. I understand that, for the 1st gen, Subaru had no suitable N/A engines AND no suitable turbo engines (Toyota was never going to allow dinosaur EJ25 turbo into a GT86).
They HAD TO destroke FB20 to get a reliable higher rev'ing engine (FB20 had too much stroke to rev comfortably and 129.X mm rods are not helping either).
But, today, we have FA20DIT and FA24DIT; seems like re-engineering FA24DIT to make good NA power is just costly masochism, IMO.
I'd drop the 205-hp FA20 as is into the 2nd gen for those who demand uncorrupted NA power and then I'd drop either FA20DIT or FA24DIT as an optional engine for those who don't mind turbo power delivery.
But, then again, maybe it just doesn't make financial sense to offer 2 engines in a car like this. Don't know.
Maybe they figure that ~250 units per month is a hard ceiling on this car regardless of the engine? Ultimately, the vast majority of people who buy a Subaru do so because they're a cheap way to get into an AWD platform.
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