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Old 09-23-2015, 09:07 AM   #101
Corentco
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Here's a quick picture of my recent install



Install and plumbing was straight forward as it's connected to my Crawford AOS and then to each head.

I'll be putting it to the test after I break in the new motor, but it's another solid piece of kit from Killer B. Thanks Chris.
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Old 09-24-2015, 04:28 PM   #102
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Thanks for posting the pic and the kind words!
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:13 AM   #103
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Did my first race weekend with the valve and I'm beyond stoked with the outcome. Before it I was draining almost a quart through out the day from my catch can after 4 sessions. Keep in mind I run the Crawford AOS that than goes to a vented catch can. With the valve I drained 1/4 of a quart after two days and 6 sessions.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:40 AM   #104
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Wanted to do another update about this valve. I ran another race and yet again it was flawless. If you truly track your Subaru this is a must for you. And as a reminder I'm in no way affiliated or sponsored by Killer B, just want my fellow track guys to know how well this works.
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Old 08-09-2016, 05:47 PM   #105
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Thanks so much for the update and follow-up! Always great to hear our products are providing reliable oiling system solutions for the performance levels you guys are reaching!
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:46 PM   #106
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Wish I knew about this product a few days ago...



Needless to say I will be buying one shortly
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:44 AM   #107
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Whoah, that's a lot of smoke. One way to keep people from getting around you is using the James Bond smokescreen

Feel free to shoot us a PM or e-mail. Always interested in engine bay shots and specs on the venting to see if we may be able to offer any advice or input
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:38 AM   #108
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I know this is OT, but this particular product is going to be a step up from current market offerings, and aimed right at the motorsports crowd. GR and GD versions to be out in a few months...







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Old 01-17-2017, 09:45 AM   #109
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We've got our Oil Control Valves in stock in preparation for racing season!

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Old 03-22-2017, 05:59 PM   #110
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What G level and time increment causes the valve to close?
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:29 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
What G level and time increment causes the valve to close?
1.45-ish off the top of my head. What do you mean by time increment?
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:52 AM   #112
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1.45-ish off the top of my head. What do you mean by time increment?
G's over time. In autox I consistently hit over 1.5 g's, but it's for very short periods of time. If the valve is closing but only briefly, then it's not going to hold oil in the heads as much vs steady state sweepers where I'm usually at 1.4-1.5's for about 2-3 seconds. Even then, does the valve open right away after the G's are less than the set value, or is it a delayed opening?
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:15 PM   #113
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It's mechanical. If you hit that value it closes, below that, it opens. There is no delay in opening/closing except for the time it takes for the valve to actuate; which is pretty fast.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:08 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
It's mechanical. If you hit that value it closes, below that, it opens. There is no delay in opening/closing except for the time it takes for the valve to actuate; which is pretty fast.
Have you considered one that will control at a lower G level? I have to imagine there is a market for that as well. Autox, track guys on street tires, etc who could use something that closes at 1.1ish and above G's.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:31 PM   #115
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Have you considered one that will control at a lower G level? I have to imagine there is a market for that as well. Autox, track guys on street tires, etc who could use something that closes at 1.1ish and above G's.
If you're running our pan, you wouldn't need one at that low of a lateral load, unless something else is going on. Even the factory pan is good to ~1.2Gs for a little while.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:19 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
If you're running our pan, you wouldn't need one at that low of a lateral load, unless something else is going on. Even the factory pan is good to ~1.2Gs for a little while.
I'll take that as a no. You'd be surprised what a well setup car on Hoosiers with aero will do at an autox using your pan. Hell, even the street tire cars will push oil out of any of the AOS systems on the market using your pan. So, no, your pan doesn't solve the issue
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:51 AM   #117
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I'll take that as a no. You'd be surprised what a well setup car on Hoosiers with aero will do at an autox using your pan. Hell, even the street tire cars will push oil out of any of the AOS systems on the market using your pan. So, no, your pan doesn't solve the issue
I have no doubt that a competitive auto-x car can hit those levels of corner load, but they are not sustained like a road coarse track. It's not apples to apples.

With auto-x you're much more susceptible to slosh/surge from the many rapid direction changes. As long as you're not using one of those flat plate baffles, I wouldn't think it wouldn't be a problem. It's similar (but different) from the drag guys that see surge up the back of the block during launch and gear changes, shooting oil out the crankcase port.
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Old 03-28-2017, 09:18 AM   #118
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I agree we see a lot of sloshing in the crank case, but what happens is we're filling the heads with oil from slosh, and then going through sweepers at 1.3-1.5 g's for 3-4 seconds while modulating throttle. So the oil is already in the heads from the slosh, and then get's pushed out. The road course guys have the heads mostly empty before the turn and oil builds up there over the longer time period then blows out.

I have your oil plate above the pan too for reference

It's the same net effect, just different ways of getting there.
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:38 PM   #119
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We went threw this in the oil porting thread. At the level our SM auto X cars are an oil pan is not enough to hold oil in the pan. I know Subydudes car is more capable then mine and if I'm having problems he should have them worse then me.

Id like to know if this valve could fix the sloshing problems for our cars in the short amount of time we are in a corner.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:11 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantsti View Post
We went threw this in the oil porting thread. At the level our SM auto X cars are an oil pan is not enough to hold oil in the pan. I know Subydudes car is more capable then mine and if I'm having problems he should have them worse then me.

Id like to know if this valve could fix the sloshing problems for our cars in the short amount of time we are in a corner.
I don't think the valve will work for us over all in it's current design. We're on the throttle so much that there's always crank case pressure pushing the oil out of the heads. The reason (I'm guessing) it works for track guys is they're starting with mostly empty heads and have time for the AOS to drain back under braking when the crank case is not under pressure. They're still getting some blown out most likely when the valve opens back up and they're on throttle, but again, it's a different environment where they have tons of time for things to settle and drain.

The way to solve it without building in a time delay (which would make it far to complicated) would be to lower the threshold to something like 1 g so it would remain closed long enough to allow some drainage back to the pan and also potentially mitigate the slosh into the heads.

I think at this point increasing the size of the AOS canister is really the best option. Most runs are done in less than 70 seconds and having a capacitance type system that holds enough and then drains back when you're in grid is still acceptable. I generally hit an equilibrium point where oil won't blow out, but it's well below the full mark and I don't like that when spinning the motor high.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:11 AM   #121
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Subydude, Are you saying that you collect and hold your oil only to let it go back to the engine after a run?
I've never been more inclined to get my data collection working on my car. Can I avoid going to dry sump? So far I have.
Chris, of KB often asks if people have data and I wonder if Chris is even doing it and when? Is KB testing always done on a volunteering car and where's the data?
I know Chris poo-poos Accusumps but if it's a placebo, I like having it.
I just wish there were more than anecdotal evidence. I can't say what kind of G's I pull...
In addition to the KB pan stuff, have a very simple catch-can and drain-back system. The can is high so the hose off the breather is right up against the hood as it does a 90 turn. From the breather, I run a 1-1/4" hose down into the wheelwell so vapors don't have much of a chance of entering the car.
At the end I have a filter. I started putting a sock over it to see what I was blowing out and to help control it. The sock took hours to get damp. This is on a well-worn engine making 24 PSI and 7,200 RPM and doing road course work. I've done auto-X and I know what you are up against. Track buddies who have the KB valve say it helps!
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:50 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantsti View Post
We went threw this in the oil porting thread. At the level our SM auto X cars are an oil pan is not enough to hold oil in the pan. I know Subydudes car is more capable then mine and if I'm having problems he should have them worse then me.

Id like to know if this valve could fix the sloshing problems for our cars in the short amount of time we are in a corner.
I don't know where I fall on the capabilities side of things, but running 295s A6s here and no problems with pressure. Although, I am running the valve.

Are you using an Accusump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
I don't think the valve will work for us over all in it's current design.
I don't know about this. I've been thinking about it. I don't know that it won't work. With auto-x the direction changes are much more rapid vs road coarse. The valve uses a weighted ball and the rapid direction change should cause early activation. Although, if the force is not sustained (once it settles), the valve would just open. Enough to address this? Who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
We're on the throttle so much that there's always crank case pressure pushing the oil out of the heads.
That's really not the case. Think about it Auto-x is 60-70 or so seconds depending on the lot size. Smaller road courses are at least double that, with medium to bigger tracks getting into several minutes. One of the mac daddies being the Nurburgring at 16-ish miles on one of the longer setups. WAAAAY more on throttle time.

The only time oil goes out the heads, is if it builds up to a point where it overwhelms the valve cover's internal baffles. I think the argument here is not whether it's happening, but how; slosh (surge) or accumulation.

If the A/O separator was designed correctly, it should be draining very very quickly anytime the throttle is lifted and gear changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
I think at this point increasing the size of the AOS canister is really the best option.
I'd be careful here. I see what you're trying to accomplish, but keeping the oil IN the engine is always going to be the better route.

Something else to note... Before we came out with the oil control valve, the next best thing was mounting the catch can or separator as front and center as possible. The most common location being in front of the A/C compressor. On throttle in sweepers was the biggest issue and this improved it quite a bit. Seeing as how wantsti is having problems on left handed turns, and the separator is on the right strut tower, making this change or even putting it near the pitch stop, may very likely help.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:18 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scargod View Post
Subydude, Are you saying that you collect and hold your oil only to let it go back to the engine after a run?
I've never been more inclined to get my data collection working on my car. Can I avoid going to dry sump? So far I have.
Chris, of KB often asks if people have data and I wonder if Chris is even doing it and when? Is KB testing always done on a volunteering car and where's the data?
I know Chris poo-poos Accusumps but if it's a placebo, I like having it.
I just wish there were more than anecdotal evidence. I can't say what kind of G's I pull...
In addition to the KB pan stuff, have a very simple catch-can and drain-back system. The can is high so the hose off the breather is right up against the hood as it does a 90 turn. From the breather, I run a 1-1/4" hose down into the wheelwell so vapors don't have much of a chance of entering the car.
At the end I have a filter. I started putting a sock over it to see what I was blowing out and to help control it. The sock took hours to get damp. This is on a well-worn engine making 24 PSI and 7,200 RPM and doing road course work. I've done auto-X and I know what you are up against. Track buddies who have the KB valve say it helps!
I'm saying that the oil collects in the AOS (and some overflows) and then it drains back in while the car is in grid and the crank case is not under pressure. Whatever overflows I don't put back in the car.

Road race load on the oil system is different than autox because of the nature and frequency of turns. On my car, I can do pulls all day on the dyno or straight line drags and not blow any oil out of the AOS. It's only at autox where I'm turning while on throttle the whole time.

I think an accusump is fine. I understand the premise behind it, and while it's a bandaid, some times bandaids still solve problems well enough that you don't need something else. Sometimes people get too wrapped up in "fixing" a problem that they ignore a simple option that doesn't "solve" it, but makes the problem manageable.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:29 PM   #124
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The problem with the Band-Aid Accusump fix is that is will also cause pressure oscillations in use. It also does not have the capacity to flow anywhere near what's necessary for these engines.

When used as a means for priming, or as a damper, they are great.

Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 03-29-2017 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:37 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I don't know where I fall on the capabilities side of things, but running 295s A6s here and no problems with pressure. Although, I am running the valve.
There's more than just Hoosiers to being good as I'm sure you're aware. The issue wasn't bad on my car using 285/295 A6's 4+ years ago. Now that my car is actually prepped and not a street car with old tires the issue is much larger. I don't have problems with pressure though, just a lot of oil being pushed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I don't know about this. I've been thinking about it. I don't know that it won't work. With auto-x the direction changes are much more rapid vs road coarse. The valve uses a weighted ball and the rapid direction change should cause early activation. Although, if the force is not sustained (once it settles), the valve would just open. Enough to address this? Who knows.
Likely not enough to address this given the G level the valve opens at. I'm on the throttle a lot through turns, but my average G's are basically right at the closing point, so as soon as the car starts to straighten out the valve would open, despite the head still pushing oil out. I still think a lower G value would be better here, because otherwise the valve is going to only close briefly and then open right back up still allowing oil to be pushed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
That's really not the case. Think about it Auto-x is 60-70 or so seconds depending on the lot size. Smaller road courses are at least double that, with medium to bigger tracks getting into several minutes. One of the mac daddies being the Nurburgring at 16-ish miles on one of the longer setups. WAAAAY more on throttle time.
You're missing the point here. Throttle time in seconds is not important. Throttle percentage over the course of turns is. Since you're always turning in autox WHILE on the throttle we're not allowing the oil to settle or the AOS to drain while on course. Track guys are on throttle a lot, but the engine breaths between shifts (unless sequential or FFS) and during braking which could be 3-4 seconds if from a high speed. During the "straights" (because you're still setting up for the next corner) there should be almost no oil being put into the AOS once the engine is up to temp. So track has just as high of sustained G's if not higher on true high speed aero cars over longer periods of time, but they also have plenty of time in between to drain the AOS back to the block.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The only time oil goes out the heads, is if it builds up to a point where it overwhelms the valve cover's internal baffles. I think the argument here is not whether it's happening, but how; slosh (surge) or accumulation.

If the A/O separator was designed correctly, it should be draining very very quickly anytime the throttle is lifted and gear changes.
Thing is, throttle lifts in autox are incredibly short and there are no gear changes except at the beginning. We build oil up in the head(s) and it never goes away until the run is over. I've ran on small lots where I have no issues, or courses where there weren't many slaloms, but all digs and still had no issue. But on courses with a good mix of elements and good speed (like most of my locals and all national courses) I'm pushing oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I'd be careful here. I see what you're trying to accomplish, but keeping the oil IN the engine is always going to be the better route.

Something else to note... Before we came out with the oil control valve, the next best thing was mounting the catch can or separator as front and center as possible. The most common location being in front of the A/C compressor. On throttle in sweepers was the biggest issue and this improved it quite a bit. Seeing as how wantsti is having problems on left handed turns, and the separator is on the right strut tower, making this change or even putting it near the pitch stop, may very likely help.
I don't disagree that keeping oil in the engine is best....that's kind of a duh statement What I'm saying though is starting with a full pan, or slightly over full and having AOS capacity to catch all the oil and then drain back is better than pushing 2-3 cups of oil out over an event and starting later runs with less oil in the pan.

Can placement can have an effect for sure, and physics should always be reviewed.
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