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Old 11-20-2020, 08:18 AM   #1
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GM's Upcoming EVs Will Now Have Up To 450 Miles Of Range, Next-Gen Ultium Batteries Already Being Tested

General Motors pulled out all the stops today as they made a series of EV-related announcements.

Also, we’re going to take a look at some of the other things the automaker announced at the Barclays Global Automotive Conference.

Since 40% of U.S. entries will be electric vehicles by the end of 2025, GM is investing heavily in them. As a result, they’re planning to spend $27 (£20.3 / €22.7) billion on autonomous and electric vehicles through the middle of the decade. That’s $7 (£5.3 / €5.9) billion more than originally planned, before the coronavirus pandemic.

Needless to say, that’s a huge amount of money and a serious commitment to electric vehicles. However, GM believes the move is necessary as CEO Mary Barra said “Climate change is real, and we want to be part of the solution by putting everyone in an electric vehicle.” She add the company is “transitioning to an all-electric portfolio from a position of strength” and can accelerate their EV plans “because we are rapidly building a competitive advantage in batteries, software, vehicle integration, manufacturing and customer experience.”

These investments are already paying off as GM announced engineering advances have increased the estimated maximum range of Ultium-based vehicles from 400 miles (644 km) to 450 miles (724 km). That’s a sizable jump in less than a year and the increase is nearly equal to the 55 mile (89 km) range of the entry-level EV1 from 1999.

Sticking with batteries, GM said Ultium packs cost nearly 40% less than those used in the Chevrolet Bolt. More importantly, the company announced the first details about the second-generation of Ultium batteries which are expected in the middle of the decade.



Prototype second-generation Ultium battery cell

They’re expected to cost 60% less than batteries in use today, despite having twice the energy density. These cost savings can be chalked up to “less expensive cathodes, reduced active material, novel electrolytes and the first use of lithium metal anodes in a GM battery.”

This isn’t just theoretical either as GM has confirmed they’re already testing next-generation battery prototypes. The company has performed “hundreds of test cycles” on multi-layer prototypes and development will kick into high gear once the Battery Innovation Lab and Manufacturing Technology Center opens in 2021.



GM also showcased three versions of the Ultium battery pack which will be used in crossovers, trucks / SUVs and performance models. The latter will presumably power the so-called “Low Roof Entries” from Chevrolet and Cadillac.

As you can see, the performance battery is far different than those designed for crossovers and trucks / SUVs. While it features a flat lower section like the others, there’s a T-shaped top and cutouts on the sides. While nothing is official, these changes could have been made to optimize weight distribution and battery capacity for use in performance models.

Last but not least, GM revealed new processes have sped up electric vehicle development by nearly 50%. This is due to a variety of factors including the modular design of Ultium systems, engineering advances in battery technology, and the use of virtual development tools. The company also learned a number of lessons creating the GMC Hummer EV.

Speaking of the latter, the truck was developed in 26 months compared to the 50 months it usually takes. GM is now setting a 26 month cycle as their benchmark and this will be made possible thanks to shortened development times, a streamlined tooling process as well as a tighter integration between design and engineering.
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:07 AM   #2
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Do these share any traits of those cells that burn up on its own while car is not in use? (no idea)
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:30 AM   #3
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Depends on whose chemistry they are using.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:46 AM   #4
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400+ range is ideal for the piece of mind
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:25 AM   #5
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I'll believe it when I see it... and have been out for a year or two without issues.

GM has to be the turd of the American 3.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #6
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:58 AM   #7
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Never would I have thought GM would be building cars for Honda.
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:14 PM   #8
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I'll believe it when I see it... and have been out for a year or two without issues.

GM has to be the turd of the American 3.
Have there been issues with the Bolt I'm not aware of? From my research I found it to be a reliable & long lasting vehicle; since this is about EV's that's what I'm going to judge GM on, not their ICE econo-boxes.

I'll agree that the Chevy branch of passenger cars are pretty garbage, but their trucks are on par reliability-wise with Ford (although I'd still take an F series between the two); but to call them the turd of the big three though; did you forget FCA was a thing?

Looking forward to what GM (or is it gm now?) brings to expand their EV lineup.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:18 PM   #9
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GM thinks 40% of all cars sold in 2025 will be EV.

BWAHAHAHHA
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:46 PM   #10
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I'm going to buy 5 million of them. That leaves 5 million for you Scrap.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:50 PM   #11
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I can only afford 3 million....Do they make a poverty spec model for me
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:01 PM   #12
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I bought them all because I don't have range anxiety. I saved the range toppers for you and your family. YURELCOME.
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:50 PM   #13
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In truth though, I can see 10%-20% by the end of 2025 (if all the models from all the makers are delivered as promised).

40% is a stretch, unless GM, Ford, Toyota and VW stop making ICE cars all together
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:54 PM   #14
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The seeming need to engineer these cars with the maximum range possible really seems to be missing the point. Most people with enough money to buy one of these drive to and from work every day and would charge at night.

My trip into the office is 5 miles round trip. I don't want to pay for an EV system that's capable of driving hundreds of miles between charges (which I and the vast majority of the buyers will never need to do). If these cars take off I really hope they segment into a couple different niches. Trying to make a one-to-one ICE replacement EV makes sense, but it shouldn't be the only goal.
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Old 01-22-2021, 04:32 PM   #15
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The seeming need to engineer these cars with the maximum range possible really seems to be missing the point. Most people with enough money to buy one of these drive to and from work every day and would charge at night.

My trip into the office is 5 miles round trip. I don't want to pay for an EV system that's capable of driving hundreds of miles between charges (which I and the vast majority of the buyers will never need to do). If these cars take off I really hope they segment into a couple different niches. Trying to make a one-to-one ICE replacement EV makes sense, but it shouldn't be the only goal.
Agree with you on this mentality. Commercial customers I can see thinking this way too and not wanting to pay for a larger battery than is absolutely necessary for them to complete their day/route. However, the american public thinks totally opposite and buys for that 10% need. You know, that one or two trips yearly they make to the ski slopes that is 350 miles away.

Going by the offerings from Tesla and teh Ford Mach E , seems like manufactures are going to feed this need by offering multiple battery size options so everyone is happy.
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Old 01-22-2021, 04:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
The seeming need to engineer these cars with the maximum range possible really seems to be missing the point. Most people with enough money to buy one of these drive to and from work every day and would charge at night.

My trip into the office is 5 miles round trip. I don't want to pay for an EV system that's capable of driving hundreds of miles between charges (which I and the vast majority of the buyers will never need to do). If these cars take off I really hope they segment into a couple different niches. Trying to make a one-to-one ICE replacement EV makes sense, but it shouldn't be the only goal.
It's funny, but for me personally I would want 190 miles of real world driving. Yes, it's more than my commute, but it's a trip I take every 3 weeks. I don't need 300 mile ranges, as I stop for a few minutes every 200 miles anyways, or fly.

I think if GM can deliver on the commercial vehicles this year BrightDrop could make a fortune. Tesla had the lead in the space, along with Rivian, but GM just might beat them to the punch.
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:05 PM   #17
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*looks at parking lot filled with massive trucks with huge lifts and all kinds of stupid **** bolted all over them so they can park at work*

Even though they're pointless for most driving situations, I also think having a 400-500 miles range is what will get a lot of dumb Americans into EVs.
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:50 PM   #18
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There's a difference between a delivery truck for Amazon, with a very narrowly defined driving area, and consumer vehicles or small proprietor work trucks.

I had a plumber come do some work for me. He lives 40 miles away and drives all over the metro area. That kind of route needs a minimum of 250-300 miles EPA.

All the people saying "I don't want to overpay for range I don't need" are looking at the EPA rating and looking at how many miles they drive in a typical day in a typical month.

The problem is that the EPA rating is about 50-70% of the usable real world range under severe conditions (80 mph on the highway in cold winter, not to mention towing), and that's before battery degradation. So if you're really just delivering packages for Amazon locally, then 150 EPA miles or even less may be just fine. For everybody else, the more range the better.

For general use commercial or personal use I don't see EPA ranges plateauing until 400-500 miles is widely available and inexpensive. If you want to replace your F250 diesel you probably need 700 EPA miles to actually tow over mountains in the winter and not have to stop every hour or two to charge.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:05 PM   #19
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It is not about range really. Average American still has one main vehicle. It has to do everything. Even that once a year trip that they look forward to. That is important. People buy STI's and they drive in traffic 99% of the time. But for that 1% they want the STI.

Same thing. I totally understand it. People do not buy a car for the driving they do, they buy a car for the driving they want everybody else to THINK they do. It is natural. It is part of the thinking of 'you are what you drive'. Not always true, but the car is an image thing.

As for getting more Americans into EV.... you all are still not seeing the point. There is absolutely no reason to pay more for a car with less capability than a gas car that does absolutely NOTHING better than a gas car. Their is no compelling reason to buy a EV except to virtue signal say say you are the 'driving the future'.

Until they offer more range and are cheaper to buy why buy them. The government will have to force people to pick them to get the percentage up into the teens or 20's. Take away the incentives and see how fast the sales tank. Right now the government is bribing people to buy them with tax incentives.

Most People do not desire a EV. Has little to do with Range. They are not desirable cars.

Proof in this?

If Honda would bring that Honda CVCC looking thing I would buy it and you all know I do not like EV at all, but that car is a desirable package to my eyes. EV or not. It has to be good regardless of powertrain. Nobody will ever give a **** about an electric motor. That sound will never give goosebumps or inspire songs to be written about it. But make a beautiful car that conjures an emotion, and you have a winner!

No EV has accomplished this yet. Maybe that Honda.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:13 PM   #20
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There's a difference between a delivery truck for Amazon, with a very narrowly defined driving area, and consumer vehicles or small proprietor work trucks.

I had a plumber come do some work for me. He lives 40 miles away and drives all over the metro area. That kind of route needs a minimum of 250-300 miles EPA.

All the people saying "I don't want to overpay for range I don't need" are looking at the EPA rating and looking at how many miles they drive in a typical day in a typical month.

The problem is that the EPA rating is about 50-70% of the usable real world range under severe conditions (80 mph on the highway in cold winter, not to mention towing), and that's before battery degradation. So if you're really just delivering packages for Amazon locally, then 150 EPA miles or even less may be just fine. For everybody else, the more range the better.

For general use commercial or personal use I don't see EPA ranges plateauing until 400-500 miles is widely available and inexpensive. If you want to replace your F250 diesel you probably need 700 EPA miles to actually tow over mountains in the winter and not have to stop every hour or two to charge.
Yeah EVs don't work well for these applications because charge times are so much different than an ICE car. Once charge times get close to same as a gas tank range will not be the issue.

800v evs and chargers are getting close and will be the standard by 2025. (The Porsche EV is already 800v)

Not saying enough chargers will be ready but a 350 to 450kwh charger will reduce charge times to 20 minutes or less for about 300 miles of range for a sedan.

In a couple years battey packs will be well under the $100/Kwh mark and 800v EV charger systems will be common. As much as I love ICE vehicles, EVs will start to be the more affordable option and there will be flip in the public perception of EVs.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:20 PM   #21
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Yeah EVs don't work well for these applications because charge times are so much different than an ICE car. Once charge times get close to same as a gas tank range will not be the issue.

800v evs and chargers are getting close and will be the standard by 2025. (The Porsche EV is already 800v)

Not saying enough chargers will be ready but a 350 to 450kwh charger will reduce charge times to 20 minutes or less for about 300 miles of range for a sedan.

In a couple years battey packs will be well under the $100/Kwh mark and 800v EV charger systems will be common. As much as I love ICE vehicles, EVs will start to be the more affordable option and there will be flip in the public perception of EVs.

Been hearing his for 20 years.

It may happen, but I doubt it. The rare earth minerals are just not as plentiful and easy to get to as say natural gas or petroleum.

No matter how you slice it batteries suck at power density and storage. They suck to make and suck to recycle. All that requires tons of energy.

Batteries need to have an evolution on the scale of going from carbs to fuel injection and from fuel injection to direct injection.

Just using tons of phone batteries welded together is not the solution.

I think a major breakthrough in batteries will happen that will be eco friendly and give huge power densities and when that happens, you can put a nail in ICE as daily drivers. They will be pleasure vehicles for fun and nostalgia.
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:04 PM   #22
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Been hearing his for 20 years.

It may happen, but I doubt it. The rare earth minerals are just not as plentiful and easy to get to as say natural gas or petroleum.

No matter how you slice it batteries suck at power density and storage. They suck to make and suck to recycle. All that requires tons of energy.

Batteries need to have an evolution on the scale of going from carbs to fuel injection and from fuel injection to direct injection.

Just using tons of phone batteries welded together is not the solution.

I think a major breakthrough in batteries will happen that will be eco friendly and give huge power densities and when that happens, you can put a nail in ICE as daily drivers. They will be pleasure vehicles for fun and nostalgia.
Don't disagree with this, especially battery pack design... Seems like more standards for safety and recycling are needed before it takes off.

but... battery prices are coming down industry is at $136 average, its getting close.

https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-cited-below-100-kwh-for-the-first-time-in-2020-while-market-average-sits-at-137-kwh/

800v standard for Delphi.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129601_supplier-confirms-broad-shift-to-800v-systems-for-luxury-evs-by-2025

Hyundai's evs are supposed to be 800v

GMs future EV are supposed to be 800v

Its really getting close.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:00 PM   #23
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Been hearing his for 20 years.

It may happen, but I doubt it. The rare earth minerals are just not as plentiful and easy to get to as say natural gas or petroleum.

No matter how you slice it batteries suck at power density and storage. They suck to make and suck to recycle. All that requires tons of energy.

Batteries need to have an evolution on the scale of going from carbs to fuel injection and from fuel injection to direct injection.

Just using tons of phone batteries welded together is not the solution.

I think a major breakthrough in batteries will happen that will be eco friendly and give huge power densities and when that happens, you can put a nail in ICE as daily drivers. They will be pleasure vehicles for fun and nostalgia.
Most rare earth metals are not rare there is tons of that stuff they just don't get mined as much also improvements in battery technology will keep minerals such as cobalt out the cells. yeah energy density is not like gasoline but the same can be said about the efficiency of the ICE vs an electric motor. From the manufacturing of car plus the life the car an electric car has a lower carbon foot print. A battery pack is 90% recyclable. You been hearing what for 20 years? The Nissan Leaf the first mass world market electric car went on sale in 2010. If people still think ICE cars have a future the are delusional.


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Don't disagree with this, especially battery pack design... Seems like more standards for safety and recycling are needed before it takes off.

but... battery prices are coming down industry is at $136 average, its getting close.

https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-...ts-at-137-kwh/

800v standard for Delphi.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ry-evs-by-2025

Hyundai's evs are supposed to be 800v

GMs future EV are supposed to be 800v

Its really getting close.
800v improves charge time and keeps temperatures down while charging but it comes at a price; all the 800v rated components and connector are expensive. You reduce cable sizing some but on a typical EV car it may amount to less than 30lbs of savings. 800v charging infrastructure is also a big problem.

Tesla new 4860 cells will improve charging time significantly without having to go to a higher voltage. It will be interesting to see if Tesla will go to 800v even thought with their new cell design is not necessary.

Last edited by juanmedina; 01-26-2021 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:15 PM   #24
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Never would I have thought GM would be building cars for Honda.
I gotta wonder if the hesitation of the Japanese automakers has to do with their relative lack of ability to set aside space for one of these gigafactories for batteries. The scale of these factories seem massive, which isn't a problem for Tesla(factory in China) or GM(which can build in the US or China), but it seems like the Japanese companies would be better off agreeing on a battery standard and investing in the likes of Mitsubishi to make them and in exchange sharing technology with Mitsubishi for their cars.
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:16 PM   #25
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I gotta wonder if the hesitation of the Japanese automakers has to do with their relative lack of ability to set aside space for one of these gigafactories for batteries. The scale of these factories seem massive, which isn't a problem for Tesla(factory in China) or GM(which can build in the US or China), but it seems like the Japanese companies would be better off agreeing on a battery standard and investing in the likes of Mitsubishi to make them and in exchange sharing technology with Mitsubishi for their cars.
You know Mitsubishi is a Japanese company right?
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