Toyota Revive MR2/Celica Hot Gt86 ?

[Sid03SVT]

They could do a MR2 coupe & vert with a longitudinal engine within the BRZ wheelbase, the FA isn't a long motor and most of the transaxle length would be behind the rear axle, kinda like the Factory Five 818 kit which is a 96" wheelbase (granted, kit car so no crash safety requirements)

For the MR2 - FA20 D4-S in the entry level, FA20DIT on the upper tier model
For the BRZ/86 - FA20 D4-S as the only engine to make it the entry level sports car or add an upper tier FI engine for those wanting a 2+2.

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[heavyD]

I was privileged enough to own an MR2 turbo. That was when Toyota had their act together but sadly those days are long gone. Subaru and BMW are making their sporty cars now so it's hard to imagine they will make a new performance car in house.

[lil'redwagon]

Originally Posted by KC

The obvious hurdle to the MR2 making a return is the recent changes to pedestrian accident mitigation standards. You know all those similiar front ends we're seeing with quite the veritcal and large front openings on cars? Yeah, that design is to mostly limit the damage inflicted on pedestrians.

The low to the ground angular designs are a thing of the past due to it. I'd love to see a return to the wedge designs (MR2/XT/SVX/Stratos)... but that ain't happening anytime soon.

--kC

Actually, the pedestrian safety rule is for a certain amount of space between the hood and the engine under it so the hood can collapse if a pedestrian falls on it. So a mid/rear engined car isn't subject to the same rules. That's why Ferraris and Porsches still get away with their low hoods. But yes, that's also why we see a bunch of very high hood lines on most cars - because most cars are front engined.

[obielando]

Originally Posted by heavyD

I was privileged enough to own an MR2 turbo. That was when Toyota had their act together but sadly those days are long gone. Subaru and BMW are making their sporty cars now so it's hard to imagine they will make a new performance car in house.

I have a third gen deuce, which everyone hates. But it's so light that with a 2zz and Turbo'd (lightly; it's got stock pistons), it's quite fun.

I would probably be in love with an awd version, if that could happen.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by heavyD

I was privileged enough to own an MR2 turbo. That was when Toyota had their act together but sadly those days are long gone. Subaru and BMW are making their sporty cars now so it's hard to imagine they will make a new performance car in house.

Oh their engineers and designers certainly have the spark for it. Let them design and let Subaru then do the development.

As was noted in the other thread: Toyota seems to inspire Subaru, and Subaru seems to temper Toyota. They have a good partnership.

And I wouldn't mind a MR2 3rd gen revamp. That was was stupid light (which is excellent), so with that same chassis design type, but for safety make it a hardtop, not a convertible, and a boxer motor (turbo FA20DIT or a NA FA24 is my guess), that thing would be amazing.

The twins are praised for their superb handling, and well they should be, but can you imagine what kind of balance a properly reimagined MR2 could have?

[Doobie Scoo]

Please god no...

Keep Subaru away from the damn thing. Toyota asked Subaru to make a new Hachi Roku and what they got back was a gutless Celica. Then Toyota went and designed a true 86 successor in the S-FR. Man, that car really should have been the 86.

Toyota needs to do the right thing, and just parts bin it in house with a lovely head by Yamaha tossed in for good measure.

They just need to redesign the 5th Gen 3SGTE to run D4S, hog out the turbo "sweet 16" style, dust off the ole E153 and enjoy a bulletproof 350 ish Whp class destroyer.

[chanomatik]

Ummmmm... Toyota designed the 86 successor already. It's called the "86". They just wanted Subaru to build it and use their balanced motor.

Toyota screwed up the Twins by pricing the FR-S too high. Initially they were supposed to be sub-$20k cars. They got greedy and overly excited about the launch.

It's a new day, my dude. Toyota isn't building any sports car without assistance. This is just how things are done now.

Also, adding a turbo is gonna drive costs up, thus making the final price to the consumer undesirable. I'd rather they just make a bigger engine, FA22 or FA24.

[Doobie Scoo]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Ummmmm... Toyota designed the 86 successor already. It's called the "86". They just wanted Subaru to build it and use their balanced motor.

Toyota screwed up the Twins by pricing the FR-S too high. Initially they were supposed to be sub-$20k cars. They got greedy and overly excited about the launch.

It's a new day, my dude. Toyota isn't building any sports car without assistance. This is just how things are done now.

Also, adding a turbo is gonna drive costs up, thus making the final price to the consumer undesirable. I'd rather they just make a bigger engine, FA22 or FA24.

You really think the toyobaru BRZ is more inline with the spirit of the Corolla GTS than the S-FR is? The BRZ is pretty much the early 2000s Celica in rear wheel guise, while the S-FR is the OG 86's spiritual successor in spec.

S-FR specs https://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-s-fr...a-m-1736022132

Corolla GTS specs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AE86

The only reason the GT86 got the nameplate was to fuel sales, had they called it the the 8th gen Celica you wouldn't probably have so many unhappy vape heads driving them around complaining about "muh torque dip".

I spent about a week with an FRS, and I had a stock GTS back in the day, they are nothing alike in handling dynamics or feel.

MR2 turbo sold for a 20% premium over the V6 camry of the day. At today's V6 Camry price that would be about 40k for a turbo MR2. Very, very doable. At that price it undercuts the Alfa 4c and the NSX very nicely. And matches up well with the flat-biller 35-40k bracket of cars that Nabisco users love so much.

As far as Toyota not selling the S-FR, no idea why not. it's basically a Miata RF for $12,500 instead of $33,500

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo

You really think the toyobaru BRZ is more inline with the spirit of the Corolla GTS than the S-FR is? The BRZ is pretty much the early 2000s Celica in rear wheel guise, while the S-FR is the OG 86's spiritual successor in spec.

S-FR specs https://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-s-fr...a-m-1736022132

Corolla GTS specs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AE86

The only reason the GT86 got the nameplate was to fuel sales, had they called it the the 8th gen Celica you wouldn't probably have so many unhappy vape heads driving them around complaining about "muh torque dip".

I spent about a week with an FRS, and I had a stock GTS back in the day, they are nothing alike in handling dynamics or feel.

MR2 turbo sold for a 20% premium over the V6 camry of the day. At today's V6 Camry price that would be about 40k for a turbo MR2. Very, very doable. At that price it undercuts the Alfa 4c and the NSX very nicely. And matches up well with the flat-biller 35-40k bracket of cars that Nabisco users love so much.

As far as Toyota not selling the S-FR, no idea why not. it's basically a Miata RF for $12,500 instead of $33,500

I’m going to have to side with this guy.

[mhoward1]

I'd have to disagree on the S-FR.

It was a homage to the Toyota S800 and aligns pretty well with that in specs too.

[chanomatik]

This is like Star Wars, where something known is brought up to date to make money and cash in on noatalgia, but the old heads hate it because it's not the old thing, not allowing it to evolve for the next gen. The Twins were an evolution of the AE86. I think "spiritual successor" is how Toyota put it. I loved my BRZ enough that it's the car I kept the longest at 4.5 years. Front engine, RWD, 2+2, not Miata-sized, was all a win for me.

I'm not old enough to appreciate the difference, but I'm old enough to be glad that they're different.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo

You really think the toyobaru BRZ is more inline with the spirit of the Corolla GTS than the S-FR is? The BRZ is pretty much the early 2000s Celica in rear wheel guise, while the S-FR is the OG 86's spiritual successor in spec.

S-FR specs https://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-s-fr...a-m-1736022132

Corolla GTS specs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AE86

The only reason the GT86 got the nameplate was to fuel sales, had they called it the the 8th gen Celica you wouldn't probably have so many unhappy vape heads driving them around complaining about "muh torque dip".

I spent about a week with an FRS, and I had a stock GTS back in the day, they are nothing alike in handling dynamics or feel.

MR2 turbo sold for a 20% premium over the V6 camry of the day. At today's V6 Camry price that would be about 40k for a turbo MR2. Very, very doable. At that price it undercuts the Alfa 4c and the NSX very nicely. And matches up well with the flat-biller 35-40k bracket of cars that Nabisco users love so much.

As far as Toyota not selling the S-FR, no idea why not. it's basically a Miata RF for $12,500 instead of $33,500

MY GUY. Couldn't have said it better.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

This is like Star Wars, where something known is brought up to date to make money and cash in on noatalgia, but the old heads hate it because it's not the old thing, not allowing it to evolve for the next gen. The Twins were an evolution of the AE86. I think "spiritual successor" is how Toyota put it. I loved my BRZ enough that it's the car I kept the longest at 4.5 years. Front engine, RWD, 2+2, not Miata-sized, was all a win for me.

I'm not old enough to appreciate the difference, but I'm old enough to be glad that they're different.

That's not at all how it is. If it was a true spiritual successor it would not have a lethargic boxer, nor would it weigh 2700 lbs for "reasons". They missed the mark completely. It's not simple, it's doesn't have the heart of a potential small bore racer nestled in it's gullet. It's not heavy but it's still too heavy for what it is. The S-FR is simply a good enthusiast car, the problem is that so is a Miata, and Toyota is definitely not going compete, even if it has much better value in class. They've found their niche.

[chanomatik]

There really isn't a thing as "true" spiritual successor. It's left up to interpretation for whoever designs it and executes it. Much like art, it's subjective. The artist intended one thing, but others interpret it differently. It's okay to see it differently, but if the artist specifically states what the intent was, that's just what it is.

We're in 2018. Your "true" successor wouldn't have sold nearly as well, but there's potential for it to do better now that the way is being paved with other offerings.

[justincredible]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

That's not at all how it is. If it was a true spiritual successor it would not have a lethargic boxer, nor would it weigh 2700 lbs for "reasons". They missed the mark completely. It's not simple, it's doesn't have the heart of a potential small bore racer nestled in it's gullet. It's not heavy but it's still too heavy for what it is. The S-FR is simply a good enthusiast car, the problem is that so is a Miata, and Toyota is definitely not going compete, even if it has much better value in class. They've found their niche.

It nearly doubled the hp (over the US AE86 Corolla) and only gained 500lbs with modern day crash requirements and tech. I think you're underselling what Toyota did.

It was dumb of them to make the car nose heavy and the mid range torque dip doesn't make sense, but the 86 was never a speed demon to begin with.

[WRXnick16]

Tetsuya Tada reveals his project wish-list for Toyota's third sports car, which many believe will be a new MR2. He hints that it could be mid-engined and developed in-house at Toyota.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/29687/...loped-in-house

"Fortunately, I have made two FR [front-engine, rear-wheel-drive] sports cars already," he said in reference to the 86 and GR Supra to Go Auto. "I was really lucky to make two. But a third sports car? Mid-ship, maybe."

Tada also expressed a desire to keep the development of this sports car in-house if possible, unlike Toyota's two current sporting models, as the 86 was developed jointly with Subaru and the GR Supra with BMW.

"It's much less stress if I can make it with just Toyota and not with another company," Tada continued. He warned, however, that an exclusively Toyota-developed, small-market sports car could fall short of lofty expectations due to technological constraints, using smartphones as an analogy.

"It's not just sports cars. If you make something in-house, you can't actually make anything exciting. For instance, smartphones. For every company, the best technology [from other companies] is integrated in there and that's the excitement. It's the same for cars. If you want to make something exciting and suited to each era, you have to find which company has the best technology and generate new value."

The MR2 was historically a more niche product that the Celica was, or the 86 and GR Supra are, with their larger followings. Considering that even these models required outside aid to reboot, it stands to reason that any potential MR2 will likely result from cooperation with a third party.

In a separate instance, Tada told Auto Industriya that his ideal partner for an MR2 revival would be Porsche, though this was seemingly a tongue-in-cheek comment. https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-...evive-mr2.html

He concluded his Go Auto interview by throwing a curveball at MR2 speculators by suggesting collaboration with a company that doesn't produce cars to be an equal possibility.

"It maybe doesn't have to be a car manufacturer. It could be Google, Microsoft, Panasonic. It could be from a different industry. Nobody will know."

Though likely inconsequential, Tada's mention of Panasonic is curious given statements from Toyota officials that confirmed the MR2's revival was in consideration, potentially in the form of an electric sports car.

In the end, Toyota remains wishy-washy on the final member of its sports car trinity.

[Sid03SVT]

Toyota collaborates with GM, and re-badges a 2022 Fiero, which uses a Malibu front subframe in the rear with the 2.0L turbo (automatic only).

[WRXnick16]

^ Sold. Sign me up for a pre-order

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Toyota collaborates with GM, and re-badges a 2022 Fiero, which uses a Malibu front subframe in the rear with the 2.0L turbo (automatic only).

Fwd cvt.

[Keshav]

Though likely inconsequential, Tada's mention of Panasonic is curious given statements from Toyota officials that confirmed the MR2's revival was in consideration, potentially in the form of an electric sports car.

I'm much more interested in EV push over another damn inline 4. You could even have a Sport mode where you let the electric motor make more noise rather than tuning it for silence. There was a tuned Tesla that did this and it sounded unique.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by Keshav

I'm much more interested in EV push over another damn inline 4. You could even have a Sport mode where you let the electric motor make more noise rather than tuning it for silence. There was a tuned Tesla that did this and it sounded unique.

unique blender or unique sewing machine.. I want to imagine it.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

unique blender or unique sewing machine.. I want to imagine it.

It will be a harmonic rhythmic sound of glaciers and ice caps healing themselves from the evils of man. More sewing machine than blender I'd imagine.

[SCRAPPYDO]

^ LOLOL

I keep picturing sand mixer... I am going with that as that sounds reminds me of cookies.

[YungBoba]

Though likely inconsequential, Tada's mention of Panasonic is curious given statements from Toyota officials that confirmed the MR2's revival was in consideration, potentially in the form of an electric sports car.

No, no, no. They've got it all wrong. Clearly this is a nod to the Celica Panasonic Edition!

For those of you not in the know, it was a special edition 7th generation Celica that was produced in limited numbers, around 500 total. It only came in red, had a bitchin' TRD bodykit, and a special Panasonic headunit that played AM, FM, and MP3s. Truly unprecedented at the time!




Therefore we can conclude that there will be a new Toyota MR2 with an anemic engine, and a special Panasonic Edition that will have excessive body cladding, pumped in engine noise from the rear (powered by a Panasonic sound system that only plays FLAC), and absolutely no performance-increasing parts compared to the standard version

[Keshav]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

unique blender or unique sewing machine.. I want to imagine it.

Hitachi Magic Wand