subaru awd vs audi quattro vs other systems

TheBaron862 · 03-30-2003, 02:50 PM

i just got a 2001 impreza 2.5rs coupe(5 spd) and i was wondering how the awd system compares to the audi quattro system that i previously had in an a4 and other systems that are currently on the market. what kind of advantages/disadvanteges do you get w/ the subaru awd system as compared to the quattro system and other systems?

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Zahnster · 03-30-2003, 03:10 PM

Well, you're going to have some confusion in the area of Audi Quattro and I guess to some extent in Subaru AWD as well.

Audi Quattro in the A4, A6, A8 (and S's) is one thing (VW Passat too AFAIR). Quattro/4motion in the TT, Golf, A3, is another thing. I believe the TT, Golf, A3 system is almost always FWD. The other is more AWD.

With Subaru AWD, your guranteed a center differential. Viscous in Manuals and most Autos. In the newer Autos(WRX,H6) you get VTD. In the rear diff of 2.5rs (pre 2002) and the WRX you also get an LSD. This system is 50/50(45/55 VTD) under normal conditions.

el~sharko · 03-30-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zahnster
In the rear diff of 2.5rs (pre 2002) and the WRX you also get an LSD. This system is 50/50(45/55 VTD) under normal conditions.

So, a 2001 RS sedan has a rear LSD?

Aphex28 · 03-30-2003, 03:35 PM

yup
98-01 RS's have Rear LSD

Max · 03-30-2003, 04:04 PM

11111

HondaH8er · 03-30-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aphex28
yup
98-01 RS's have Rear LSD

Max is correct, 2000 was the first year they came with the rear LSD, and the new bodystyle 2.5RS's do not come with a rear LSD. So 00 and 01 where the only years that the RS came from the factory with a rear LSD.

liigod · 03-30-2003, 08:34 PM

here is the deal

quattro is better in turns on the road and their traction control is better

the skyline's awd is just plain cool being able to select rwd or a percentage to the front wheels

subarus awds are cheap and good all around, but they arent very durrable for racing

DCCD subarus are PIMPly nice and durrable

4motion is quattro

tt's can be converted to 50 50 front rear awd, they did it the otehr way just to save gas.

mercedes awd is too slow and crap

mitsubishi, i wont even coment because it is way to hot of a debate

the best awd really is a unicycle

PJ2.5RS · 03-30-2003, 09:04 PM

""subarus awds are cheap and good all around, but they arent very durrable for racing""

...in terms of things start wearing out & break, or it's just not a high performance system for the track?

liigod · 03-31-2003, 12:14 AM

in terms of like redline drops :-D and high power applications i see a lot of second gear's going out, sure they werent designed for that so i dont discredit subaru, but its just something to know.

Impresario · 03-31-2003, 08:31 AM

Everything you would want to know about various 4WD/AWD systems:

http://home.attbi.com/~eliot_www/awd.html

abaxter34 · 04-01-2003, 05:40 AM

i've got a 1990 audi 90 quattro 20 valve which has a full torsen system with a limited lsd in the rear, electronically lockable rear diff. and an open front. i resently drove a 2000 rs in the rain and i was really surprised by how long it took for the driveline to transfer the power from the front to the rear. when the rear end finally kicked in it felt great, but at first i had my doubts as to if was going to transfer power at all. in my car it happens instantaneously due to the fact that all the diffs are mechanical. i was test driving the subaru from a local dealer who was kind enough to give me the keys and let me go off on my own for as long as i wanted. needless to say i hammered the **** out of that car and that was the only thing that really stuck out when comparing it to my car.

the a4, a6, and a8 all have the traditional mechanical torsen setup which requires that the engine be mounted longitudinally. the new a3, tt, and gti r32 all have transversly mounted engines due to packaging restraints and the pursuit of better balance. this has required audi to adapt the haldex type diff which uses electronically controlled clutch packs. this is the same system used in volvos. personally i don't like it because it is mostly fwd and it kicks in after front wheel slip is detected. vw's 4motion is not the same thing as a genuine quattro driveline. it uses a center viscous coupling.

as far a durability goes, with audis torsen you could do redline clutch drops all day. and contrary to popular belief, awd isnt any faster in corners. one of the reasons audi has done so well in touring car championships is due to tire conservation.

thats all i've got on audis, don't ask me about suburas, don't have a clue.

sleepy-scoobie · 04-01-2003, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by liigod
here is the deal

quattro is better in turns on the road and their traction control is better

the skyline's awd is just plain cool being able to select rwd or a percentage to the front wheels

subarus awds are cheap and good all around, but they arent very durrable for racing

DCCD subarus are PIMPly nice and durrable

4motion is quattro

tt's can be converted to 50 50 front rear awd, they did it the otehr way just to save gas.

mercedes awd is too slow and crap

mitsubishi, i wont even coment because it is way to hot of a debate

the best awd really is a unicycle

Oh, so thats the deal, huh?

So skylines can select RWD? Do you mean an R32, R33 or R34? Try `selecting` RWD in an R33 and come back to us after you fly off the 2WD dyno. Skylines are biased towards RWD until the computer decides to direct drive to the front via a pack of electronically controlled multiplate clutches.

4motion is quattro, huh? Do you mean with the Haldex electronic differential or the Torsen mechanical?

The USDM Evo VIII has a viscous locking center differential, like the WRX, along with a open front diff. JDM Evo VII & VIII GSRs have a variable electronically controlled center diff (ACD). Note that the lighter, faster RS models (much like our Impreza TypeRA) don`t use the electronic gimmics, and that one of Mitsu`s reasons for not bringing it is because of its unreliability and higher maintanence requirements.

Funny, Ive never heard of a Subarus diff failing under `racing`... unless you mean drag `racing`... and 2nd gear failures has more to do with transmission design than with the type of AWD differentials. Redline drops? In second gear?

abaxter34, Your RSs AWD system is solid. It uses viscous locking units that are a good compromise in price and weight between viscous units and mechanical (like Torsen) diffs. Your A4 used Torsen mechanical diffs which have the fastest lockup of non-active diffs, but has the disadvantage of added weight and cost. Aggressive mechanical diffs also can make a car more of a handful under lockup conditions.

Zahnster · 04-02-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by liigod
in terms of like redline drops :-D and high power applications i see a lot of second gear's going out, sure they werent designed for that so i dont discredit subaru, but its just something to know.

You sir, are a moron. This has nothing to do with AWD and everything to do with transmission design(as previously stated above).

timatwood · 04-02-2003, 03:02 PM

The audi 90q20v has quattro II, which is torsen center, open front, locking rear. It doesn't have a limited slip rear, it is either locked or open (and only locks under 20 mph). I liked my 20v a lot, especially the rev-happy engine, but I like my 2.5RS just a little better (steering feel, handling).

I assume the RS that abaxter34 drove was the auto, which does tend to have a delay and a "clunk" when switching power rearward from spinning front wheels. If you drove the manual, you would be much happier. It handles a lot like the 20v, but will powerslide the rear a lot easier in the slippery conditions due to the limited slip rear.

The a4 has a torsen center with open front/rear, and uses the brakes to control wheelspin at each end. It can move with traction at only one wheel. The RS can move with traction at either back wheel or both fronts, same as the 90q20v with the rear end locked.

03-30-2003, 02:50 PM	#1
TheBaron862 Scooby Newbie Member#: 34073 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nj Vehicle: 2001 impreza 2.5rs red	subaru awd vs audi quattro vs other systems i just got a 2001 impreza 2.5rs coupe(5 spd) and i was wondering how the awd system compares to the audi quattro system that i previously had in an a4 and other systems that are currently on the market. what kind of advantages/disadvanteges do you get w/ the subaru awd system as compared to the quattro system and other systems? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

03-30-2003, 04:04 PM	#5
Max Scooby Newbie Member#: 788 Join Date: Jan 2000 Vehicle: 2023 MachE Nite Pony	11111 Last edited by Max; 05-09-2007 at 10:01 PM.

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03-30-2003, 03:10 PM	#2
Zahnster Scooby Specialist Member#: 2918 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Simi Valley, CA, USA Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver Sedan	Well, you're going to have some confusion in the area of Audi Quattro and I guess to some extent in Subaru AWD as well. Audi Quattro in the A4, A6, A8 (and S's) is one thing (VW Passat too AFAIR). Quattro/4motion in the TT, Golf, A3, is another thing. I believe the TT, Golf, A3 system is almost always FWD. The other is more AWD. With Subaru AWD, your guranteed a center differential. Viscous in Manuals and most Autos. In the newer Autos(WRX,H6) you get VTD. In the rear diff of 2.5rs (pre 2002) and the WRX you also get an LSD. This system is 50/50(45/55 VTD) under normal conditions.

03-30-2003, 03:35 PM	#4
Aphex28 Scooby Guru Member#: 11506 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dracut, MA Vehicle: 2010 Legacy GT 1999 10AE Miata	yup 98-01 RS's have Rear LSD

03-30-2003, 08:34 PM	#7
liigod Scooby Specialist Member#: 30512 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Yonder Vehicle: 01 2.5rs black	here is the deal quattro is better in turns on the road and their traction control is better the skyline's awd is just plain cool being able to select rwd or a percentage to the front wheels subarus awds are cheap and good all around, but they arent very durrable for racing DCCD subarus are PIMPly nice and durrable 4motion is quattro tt's can be converted to 50 50 front rear awd, they did it the otehr way just to save gas. mercedes awd is too slow and crap mitsubishi, i wont even coment because it is way to hot of a debate the best awd really is a unicycle

03-30-2003, 09:04 PM	#8
PJ2.5RS Scooby Newbie Member#: 33697 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Long Island, NY	""subarus awds are cheap and good all around, but they arent very durrable for racing"" ...in terms of things start wearing out & break, or it's just not a high performance system for the track?

03-31-2003, 12:14 AM	#9
liigod Scooby Specialist Member#: 30512 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Yonder Vehicle: 01 2.5rs black	in terms of like redline drops :-D and high power applications i see a lot of second gear's going out, sure they werent designed for that so i dont discredit subaru, but its just something to know.

03-31-2003, 08:31 AM	#10
Impresario Scooby Specialist Member#: 344 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Long Island, NY USA Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX Java Black Pearl	Everything you would want to know about various 4WD/AWD systems: http://home.attbi.com/~eliot_www/awd.html

04-01-2003, 05:40 AM	#11
abaxter34 Scooby Specialist Member#: 34723 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Bellingham, WA Vehicle: fwd FTL!	i've got a 1990 audi 90 quattro 20 valve which has a full torsen system with a limited lsd in the rear, electronically lockable rear diff. and an open front. i resently drove a 2000 rs in the rain and i was really surprised by how long it took for the driveline to transfer the power from the front to the rear. when the rear end finally kicked in it felt great, but at first i had my doubts as to if was going to transfer power at all. in my car it happens instantaneously due to the fact that all the diffs are mechanical. i was test driving the subaru from a local dealer who was kind enough to give me the keys and let me go off on my own for as long as i wanted. needless to say i hammered the **** out of that car and that was the only thing that really stuck out when comparing it to my car. the a4, a6, and a8 all have the traditional mechanical torsen setup which requires that the engine be mounted longitudinally. the new a3, tt, and gti r32 all have transversly mounted engines due to packaging restraints and the pursuit of better balance. this has required audi to adapt the haldex type diff which uses electronically controlled clutch packs. this is the same system used in volvos. personally i don't like it because it is mostly fwd and it kicks in after front wheel slip is detected. vw's 4motion is not the same thing as a genuine quattro driveline. it uses a center viscous coupling. as far a durability goes, with audis torsen you could do redline clutch drops all day. and contrary to popular belief, awd isnt any faster in corners. one of the reasons audi has done so well in touring car championships is due to tire conservation. thats all i've got on audis, don't ask me about suburas, don't have a clue.

04-02-2003, 03:02 PM	#14
timatwood Scooby Newbie Member#: 2920 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Burlington, MA, USA	The audi 90q20v has quattro II, which is torsen center, open front, locking rear. It doesn't have a limited slip rear, it is either locked or open (and only locks under 20 mph). I liked my 20v a lot, especially the rev-happy engine, but I like my 2.5RS just a little better (steering feel, handling). I assume the RS that abaxter34 drove was the auto, which does tend to have a delay and a "clunk" when switching power rearward from spinning front wheels. If you drove the manual, you would be much happier. It handles a lot like the 20v, but will powerslide the rear a lot easier in the slippery conditions due to the limited slip rear. The a4 has a torsen center with open front/rear, and uses the brakes to control wheelspin at each end. It can move with traction at only one wheel. The RS can move with traction at either back wheel or both fronts, same as the 90q20v with the rear end locked.