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Old 02-20-2009, 01:14 PM   #2576
shanafme
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Yeah, good luck.
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Old 02-20-2009, 02:27 PM   #2577
sajohnson
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Don't get me started on ANY of the bailouts...
Sorry, I'll try to avoid the topic!
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:43 PM   #2578
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I finally received some good news regarding the fuel smell. Over a series of emails between me and SOA, we finally reached a resolution. I was told that if I were to have the fuel leak repaired, I can send him the repair bill via email and be reimbursed to cover the repair. I'm gonna get this tax return sometime soon and take my car up to the dealership and finally get it fixed.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:24 AM   #2579
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Originally Posted by Superorb View Post
Unless you smell raw fuel when you start your car when it's cold out, you have nothing to worry about.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS RAW FUEL SMELL.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:15 AM   #2580
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Originally Posted by topher88 View Post
I finally received some good news regarding the fuel smell. Over a series of emails between me and SOA, we finally reached a resolution. I was told that if I were to have the fuel leak repaired, I can send him the repair bill via email and be reimbursed to cover the repair. I'm gonna get this tax return sometime soon and take my car up to the dealership and finally get it fixed.
I'm still unclear as to why SOA plays this game where they force the customer to pay up front and then reimburse them.

The only reason I can think of is to try and reduce the number of claims. After all, some people don't have a spare $500 or $600 laying around.

If SOA is going to pay they should just pay the dealer up front.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:00 AM   #2581
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THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS RAW FUEL SMELL.
I worded my statement incorrectly.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:14 PM   #2582
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I just got my car fixed by someone else btw. But before that I called SOA, they gave me a ref # to make an appt with a dealer, so i did, on the day of the appt, the service manager or whomever helped me out didn't see a leakage.. cuz the car was warm. He then said since my car's at 101k miles, he doesn't think SOA will help at all cuz its pass the warranty period and that if he was to replace any lines, the job will be about $800 or $900. In my mind i was like " WTF!! $800-900!! ." He said even though its on the TSB, they're not obligated to repair it , its a "notice" to them but its not mandatory or a recall that they HAVE to do it and will be out of the my pocket if I did want them to do the work. I felt discouraged to even deal with all this so I brought it to a local mechanic with the TSB diagram and he replaced the lines and all for $350. I dont smell the gas anymore.. yay! Even though I felt it wasnt necessary for me to pay 350 or even a single penny, i just didnt wanna deal with the whole crap, esp since I felt discouraged with the dealer when i brought it in.

On the other hand...
Does anyone know if the leakage has anything to do with not being able to start the car? Once in awhile, whether its cold or not, when I turn the ignition, it sounds like it is trying to start, but doesnt, so i turn it back and take out the key and retry it for the 2nd time.. then it works. Could it be when u turn the ignition to start, the fuel leaks from the lines/hoses so it doesnt get all the way to its destination to start the car properly? It happened a lot before I had my lines replaced. But now, it happens a lot less, any clue? I dont think its my sparkplugs right? Because They were replaced at 68k, and right now im at 101k miles. It should last me till about 120k. Anything I should inquire to the guy who fixed my car? I think he effed up a bit somewhere along the lines too cuz now my clock doesnt appear all the time, then when u start driving it comes back on .. and sometimes its the wrong time. What could happened when he took out the intake manifold? Over jumped my car for whatever reason to kill my battery? Loose cable in the fuse box? HELP!

Last edited by jungleman; 02-24-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:30 PM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
I just got my car fixed by someone else btw. But before that I called SOA, they gave me a ref # to make an appt with a dealer, so i did, on the day of the appt, the service manager or whomever helped me out didn't see a leakage.. cuz the car was warm. He then said since my car's at 101k miles, he doesn't think SOA will help at all cuz its pass the warranty period and that if he was to replace any lines, the job will be about $800 or $900. In my mind i was like " WTF!! $800-900!! ." He said even though its on the TSB, they're not obligated to repair it , its a "notice" to them but its not mandatory or a recall that they HAVE to do it and will be out of the my pocket if I did want them to do the work. I felt discouraged to even deal with all this so I brought it to a local mechanic with the TSB diagram and he replaced the lines and all for $350. I dont smell the gas anymore.. yay! Even though I felt it wasnt necessary for me to pay 350 or even a single penny, i just didnt wanna deal with the whole crap, esp since I felt discouraged with the dealer when i brought it in.



On the other hand...
Does anyone know if the leakage has anything to do with not being able to start the car? Once in awhile, whether its cold or not, when I turn the ignition, it sounds like it is trying to start, but doesnt, so i turn it back and take out the key and retry it for the 2nd time.. then it works. Could it be when u turn the ignition to start, the fuel leaks from the lines/hoses so it doesnt get all the way to its destination to start the car properly? It happened a lot before I had my lines replaced. But now, it happens a lot less, any clue? I dont think its my sparkplugs right? Because They were replaced at 68k, and right now im at 101k miles. It should last me till about 120k. Anything I should inquire to the guy who fixed my car? I think he effed up a bit somewhere along the lines too cuz now my clock doesnt appear all the time, then when u start driving it comes back on .. and sometimes its the wrong time. What could happened when he took out the intake manifold? Over jumped my car for whatever reason to kill my battery? Loose cable in the fuse box? HELP!

As for your car not starting, I would say my car did that from Day one, every 50-100 starts that would happen, not often but if someone was in the car they would look at me with the "are we stuck" look. Never worried about it much...As for the clock... no clue.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:19 PM   #2584
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Originally Posted by TheAnser View Post
Just an update for everyone.

After the tightening of the clamps I was still experiencing the raw fuel smell I do have to note that it was less intense, but, still there.

I got ahold of Nate and told him that I wanted to bring the car down to the dealership and let it sit overnight so that it wasn't warmed up by the time I got there. He was completely fine with that and I even went back down this morning to start the car with them to confirm the smell.

The Tech, Dave, went out with me to start the car and sure enough, it smelled like gas all over the place. He said to me at that point that "It has to be under the manifold b/c we have done everything we could without taking the manifold off." I told him to move forward with the TSB work. I am going to have Nate (The Service Manager) call SoA and refer to my reference number and let them know that my car needed the TSB fix and see if they can do a goodwill payment for my service.

Should I call SoA as well? Or should I not even bother having Nate call and handle it myself? Who has had good luck with either of these situations?

Thanks!

Orion
Probably my final update:

Once Adam got the manifold off they noticed that the problem was with the 3 rubber lines coming off the hard lines. All of them were drenched with gas due to leakage. They checked the hardline and confirmed that it was the updated version. At this point they moved forward with new rubber hoses and all new clamps on the whole fuel system. Total cost of the bill came out to $575.76. This was paid in full by me on 2-9-2009.

I called Grant at SoA and filled him in on what had happened and what was replaced. He said that he would be calling Nate at W&L to confirm. I spoke with Nate when I picked up the car and he told me that this was the first '04 that he had come in with this problem and that it was, in his eyes, ridiculous that this problem was happening on a car of this mileage. He assured me that he would share that though with Grant when he called.

I hadn't spoken to Nate or Grant since 2-13-2009 as I knew they were going to be contacting one another. Today, I put a call into Grant at SoA and left a voicemail for him to call me back.

My phone rang roughly 15 minutes later and it was Grant. He finally was able to catch-up with Nate and he was happy to report that, although my car was out of warranty, and the safety bulletin did not cover my model year he would be able to issue a one-time goodwill payment of $500 towards my bill.

I have had no problems since they replaced the rubber hoses and clamps and at this point, even if I get another 4 years out of it with no smell I would be happy for $75.76!

My best tip for everyone: treat the SoA contact and the dealership the way you would want them to treat you and speak to them with respect. They are required to say that the bulletin does not cover anything besides the '02 model year, it was not a recall, etc. etc.

As was said in this thread prior to this post; you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:38 PM   #2585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
I just got my car fixed by someone else btw. But before that I called SOA, they gave me a ref # to make an appt with a dealer, so i did, on the day of the appt, the service manager or whomever helped me out didn't see a leakage.. cuz the car was warm. He then said since my car's at 101k miles, he doesn't think SOA will help at all cuz its pass the warranty period and that if he was to replace any lines, the job will be about $800 or $900. In my mind i was like " WTF!! $800-900!! ." He said even though its on the TSB, they're not obligated to repair it , its a "notice" to them but its not mandatory or a recall that they HAVE to do it and will be out of the my pocket if I did want them to do the work. I felt discouraged to even deal with all this so I brought it to a local mechanic with the TSB diagram and he replaced the lines and all for $350. I dont smell the gas anymore.. yay! Even though I felt it wasnt necessary for me to pay 350 or even a single penny, i just didnt wanna deal with the whole crap, esp since I felt discouraged with the dealer when i brought it in.

On the other hand...
Does anyone know if the leakage has anything to do with not being able to start the car? Once in awhile, whether its cold or not, when I turn the ignition, it sounds like it is trying to start, but doesnt, so i turn it back and take out the key and retry it for the 2nd time.. then it works. Could it be when u turn the ignition to start, the fuel leaks from the lines/hoses so it doesnt get all the way to its destination to start the car properly? It happened a lot before I had my lines replaced. But now, it happens a lot less, any clue? I dont think its my sparkplugs right? Because They were replaced at 68k, and right now im at 101k miles. It should last me till about 120k. Anything I should inquire to the guy who fixed my car? I think he effed up a bit somewhere along the lines too cuz now my clock doesnt appear all the time, then when u start driving it comes back on .. and sometimes its the wrong time. What could happened when he took out the intake manifold? Over jumped my car for whatever reason to kill my battery? Loose cable in the fuse box? HELP!
Maybe he forgot to replace a ground?

Maybe it's just a coincidence.

You'd have better luck starting another thread since the problem you're describing is unrelated to the raw fuel smell problem.
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:11 PM   #2586
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Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
I'm still unclear as to why SOA plays this game where they force the customer to pay up front and then reimburse them.

The only reason I can think of is to try and reduce the number of claims. After all, some people don't have a spare $500 or $600 laying around.

If SOA is going to pay they should just pay the dealer up front.
Some people will just make up crap. If the owner wants the problem fixed bad enough, they will find a way to to up that $500 or $600.
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:51 PM   #2587
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Originally Posted by topher88 View Post
Some people will just make up crap. If the owner wants the problem fixed bad enough, they will find a way to to up that $500 or $600.
I can't imagine there are too many people who are out there claiming their car has problems that don't exist. Even if a repair is free, it's still a PITA taking your car to the shop, being without it for a day (or 3 or 4) and picking it back up.

Even if there are idiots who are doing this, that's what the preliminary inspection is for -- to make sure that a) there is a problem, and b) it is the fuel leak referred to in the TSB.

I still think that requiring the payment up front is a way to cut down on the number of repairs SOA has to pay for. Some folks (especially these days) don't have several hundred dollars laying around collecting dust, and even those that do have the money may still be concerned that SOA might change their mind after the repair is done.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:16 PM   #2588
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Originally Posted by BadWRX1 IL View Post
I will not post the pictures here until it is verified that this was the issue. My car is being inspected on Wednesday or Thursday of next week. Depending on the findings I will then be in contact with SOA, and the NHTSA to let them know of the failure.
If it is found not to be due to the fuel leak I will post the link to photos for your viewing. If it is found to be this it could take awhile for NHTSA to complete an inspection, I will post the photos to the thread.
The WRX will not be inspected, since the car is over 6 years old the Insurance Company isn't able to get reimburse from the Manufacture so no inspection will be paid for. Thus I can not claim that the fire was a direct cause of this TSB cold weather fuel leak, and Pictures will not be posted onto this thread. I was also told that the Likely hood of a recall from 1 fire is low/None since no one was hurt.

Good Luck to everyone with this issue, and Fix it ASAP.
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:32 PM   #2589
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Originally Posted by TheAnser View Post
Probably my final update:

Total cost of the bill came out to $575.76. This was paid in full by me on 2-9-2009.



My phone rang roughly 15 minutes later and it was Grant. He finally was able to catch-up with Nate and he was happy to report that, although my car was out of warranty, and the safety bulletin did not cover my model year he would be able to issue a one-time goodwill payment of $500 towards my bill.

.

I dont think they should have made you pay $575.76 up front. This is a bad policy, this in on a 5 year old car. Like that $75.76 would kill them, I know times are tough but this is the kind of thing that would keep me from buying another Subaru.
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Old 03-05-2009, 05:55 PM   #2590
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Hey, thought Id post my experience in upstate NY on my 02. I took it into a local dealer, they gave me the tightening runaround and made me make an appointment to do so. once i showed up, the tech said right away that I had to replace the hoses, gaskets, and front fuel rail. total of 100 on parts up front, and 340 labor and an appt 3 days later. So, thanks to a few of you guys I thought to make a call to SoA, and might I say the best 10 minutes spent on hold. They told me they would make a call to the dealer and see what was good. I got a return call 2 hours later saying that the dealer will do it as a "good will gesture". The parts haven't come in yet, so i haven't personally spoken with the dealer about it, so I hope I didn't jinx it. But def worth challenging the warranty/TSB issue. THANKS ALL FOR INPUT ON THIS THREAD; YOUR INFO SAVED ME $$450!!
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Old 03-05-2009, 05:57 PM   #2591
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^^^^!!hopefully!!^^^^
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:25 PM   #2592
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Originally Posted by fliptip View Post
Hey, thought Id post my experience in upstate NY on my 02. I took it into a local dealer, they gave me the tightening runaround and made me make an appointment to do so. once i showed up, the tech said right away that I had to replace the hoses, gaskets, and front fuel rail. total of 100 on parts up front, and 340 labor and an appt 3 days later. So, thanks to a few of you guys I thought to make a call to SoA, and might I say the best 10 minutes spent on hold. They told me they would make a call to the dealer and see what was good. I got a return call 2 hours later saying that the dealer will do it as a "good will gesture". The parts haven't come in yet, so i haven't personally spoken with the dealer about it, so I hope I didn't jinx it. But def worth challenging the warranty/TSB issue. THANKS ALL FOR INPUT ON THIS THREAD; YOUR INFO SAVED ME $$450!!
It seems you're on the way to getting SOA to pick up the tab. Good luck with it, and I hope it cures the problem for you. As you've read here, there is a bit of inconsistency in how the dealers approach the problem. These seems to be a bit of that in how SOA approaches it too. I wonder if it has to do with how much business a customer/complainant has done with a given dealer? Who knows for sure, but if someone can get the repair work done without cost to them...well that's a good thing.

I agree with sajohnson about the pain in the butt one has to go through. I rented a car on this last repair. At least I got a dealer discount on the rental. Had it for two days. The bus line stops about a mile away from the dealer, and normally I'd walk that, but a bit of arthritis in the hip makes that a chore. Plus I got tired of asking friends to meet me at the dealer to pick me up then give me a ride back when the car was ready. So I don't think anyone would go through the hassle just to make up crap about a problem with their car.

With the economy in the tank I think we'll soon see an end to SOA's magnanimity, at least in picking up the whole tab, or even the major portion of it. Heck GM is about to go belly up. Even it's own accountants are saying they can't see GM surviving. I know it's a hard bite, but I think GM should declare chapter11 bankruptcy and get on with reorganizing. Sorry to go OT.
darryl

Last edited by Darryl; 03-05-2009 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:28 AM   #2593
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Add another one to the list.

Unfortunately I already took my car to the deal before coming across this tread, thinking it was just my own problem. They quoted me ~1400 to fix my AC and ~640 for the gas line fix. They did offer a %10 discount (I guess they felt sorry for me). It was a lot more than I expected so I declined the repairs for now. They still charged $60 for A/C diagnosis and $50 for the gas line diagnosis.

I called SoA today and was on hold for 20 minutes before I got the message asking for my name and number so they can call me back later. I'll try again tomorrow. I am really not in a financial position to be dealing with this as I'm about to graduate into a heap of loans without a job lined up yet. I'll keep you all posted.

Come on Subaru...
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:53 AM   #2594
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good luck camelian, on both accounts; the car and in finding a job. It's too bad you found this thread only after going to the dealership first. But at least now you've contacted SOA. I hope it gets back to you soon with news you can use. But don't let them forget about you.
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:38 AM   #2595
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Originally Posted by camelian View Post
Add another one to the list.

Unfortunately I already took my car to the deal before coming across this tread, thinking it was just my own problem. They quoted me ~1400 to fix my AC and ~640 for the gas line fix. They did offer a %10 discount (I guess they felt sorry for me). It was a lot more than I expected so I declined the repairs for now. They still charged $60 for A/C diagnosis and $50 for the gas line diagnosis.

I called SoA today and was on hold for 20 minutes before I got the message asking for my name and number so they can call me back later. I'll try again tomorrow. I am really not in a financial position to be dealing with this as I'm about to graduate into a heap of loans without a job lined up yet. I'll keep you all posted.

Come on Subaru...
What's wrong with your a/c?
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:57 AM   #2596
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Compressor went out and theres a leak somewhere =/
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:21 PM   #2597
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Made the call picked up by an extremely nice gentleman named Don. He is now calling the dealership to explore options and will call me back. Wish me luck!
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:41 PM   #2598
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Compressor went out and theres a leak somewhere =/
Bugeye? I had the same problem happen to me, and you can do most of the work yourself. If there's a leak in the system you can find it as well. Just get some of that dye mixed with 134 and put that into the system. I used a cheapy UV LED light from DealExtreme.com like $5 shipped. The most common spot for leaks is the High Pressure hose joint connection under the foam. It's the line from the compressor to the condenser. If you have an early 02 you'll have to replace the condenser too since the dryer is welded to the condenser, and the dryer usually needs to be replaced when there's a leak.
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:06 AM   #2599
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Date of repair: 3-18-09
Dealer that completed repair: Subaru of Plano (Plano, TX 75093)
How much did you pay for the repair: $0 (reimbursement)
Did you contact SOA: Yes
Did you ask for the discount, or did they just do it: Hinted at it first and they offered
Any additional comments: Like others said, be as nice (but firm) as possible and if the op is nice then he will really do everything he can. Seems like much of it is really dependent on what the dealer and SoA can work out.

I found out about this offer after I already got a quote and declined repairs because of the expensive cost. This probably sped things up since the deal already confirmed the issue. (They seemed more willing to diagnose the problem since they were probably would stand to make more money.) SoA called about 20 minutes after the initial call and said that the dealer would offer the repair at "warranty cost" (which was $478.88 rather than my original quote of ~$650) and that SoA would take care of all the charges and mail me a check after I faxed the invoice in. He never mentioned it as a "one time good-will favor" like many others of you heard. It seemed like it was procedure to offer to pay and quite frankly, I had a better time dealing with SoA than with Western Digital trying to get a replacement for a 3 month year old drive that failed well within warranty.

I must also give props to Subaru of Plano who did excellent work (and was able to repair the a/c for much less since it turned out the compressor wasn't bad). They also did a COMPLETE detail of my car, vaccuming all the dirt inside, cleaning the outside, applying tire shine and even cleaning the black plastic wheel well pieces. I really feel like I got a new car back.

Now I will definitely consider buying a Subaru again in the future (just not the first run models =P)

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread..it has been extremely helpful. Hope it goes well for anyone else in this situation!

Subaru Notes:
Fuel pipe to hoses leaking
Removed intake manifold, installed updated fuel pipe and hoses, and purged cooling system, repaired dry 7 cracking vacuum hoses.

Last edited by camelian; 03-20-2009 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:26 AM   #2600
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Alright guys I had this problem throughout the whole entire winter and finally decided to get it fixed. I brought it to the subaru dealership in my town and told them what my problem. They said they have fixed this problem many times before but it would cost 600-700 dollars to repair. Immediately I said no and left.

After a couple more months of smelling fuel, I went ahead and fixed the problem with a buddy of mine. The problem lies in the three rubber fuel lines that connect the hard lines underneath the intake manifold, as stated before in this thread. First off, removing the intake manifold is quite the job, but if you stay on task and organized it really isn't that bad. After you get the intake manifold off it is very easy to fix.

This repair ended up costing me around $15 for the fuel line and clamps that I had to buy. It was well worth it in my book.
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