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07-20-2003, 06:43 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Timing Belt Problem - Need Help ASAP
In an effort to fix my oil pump seal leak, I pulled the timing belt cover et al today. While I was in there I figured I would change the timing belt to the STi model.
I followed the directions provided by Subaru to the letter (same instructions from the service manual and posted on scoobymods). Removed the cover and belt guides. I rotated the crankshaft until the appropriate lines lined up. Then I removed the lower tensioner. Next step was to remove the belt. I started at the bottom and after getting the lower section of belt out, both of the driver's side cram pulleys suddenly spun and ended up 180 degrees out. I don't know if it was the automatic tensioner that pulled the belt and made the pulley move or what. Bottom line is that I think I'm screwed. The instructions were very clear about not moving the pulleys after the belt was off. The passenger side pulleys didn't move, nor did the crank. I tried very carefully to rotate the driver's cam pulleys back, but they see a lot of resistance with 45-90 degrees left to go. 1) Did I bend the valve stems? 2) If so, how do I fix it? 3) If not, how do I get the cams back in place? 4) Why/How the hell did this happen when I followed the Subaru directions to the letter! I appreciate any help.
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07-20-2003, 07:13 PM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Vehicle:2016 STi |
The cams rotate on their own because the cam lobe is pushing the valves open.
As long as you don't try to rotate the cams anymore than the place where they're resting now and the place they were when you removed the belt, there's no way you'll open the same cylinders intake and exhaust valves simultaneously. Unless you've tried to rotate the cams to any position other than they were in when you removed the timing belt, you've not caused any damage, and you won't. They see alot of resistance with 45-90 degrees left to rotate because you're opening a set of valves. The trick is to get the cam lobes for that set of valves to the perfect spot to hold the camshaft in that position. Can you stand an egg on end? |
07-20-2003, 08:03 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Sounds like there might be a glimmer of hope for me...
How do I get the cams rotated back to where the timing marks line up so I can put the timing belt back on correctly? Do I turn them both at the same time? Or rotate them in opposite directions? From your explanation, it sounds like the valve stem slipped off the cam lobe and the camshaft rotated (both intake and exhaust did this by the way). So hopefully the valves did not get bent in the process. Now it is just a matter of getting them back without bending them. What's the best way to do this? |
07-20-2003, 08:06 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Quote:
I sure hope I didn't screw anything up. |
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07-20-2003, 08:32 PM | #5 |
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MWSOC
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ah welcome to the hell of trying to time up a DOHC. I did the timing belt on my prelude about 5 times before I got it right. This is advice based on that experiance, so I don't know how much of it will transate onto the WRX. First of alll if the cam gears have the top dead center mark on them then that is your goal. I found the only way I could turn the cams enough was to put a wrench on the bolt holding the gear onto the cam and moving it that way, don't worry you won't loosen it. Now how do you get it to stay... well good question on the honda there are guide holes on the head and cam that line up so you just put a punch in there to hold them. I don't know if ours has this or not, and even if they do good luck taking the valve covers off to see them. As for bending valves by turning cams I don't think you will have to worry about that unless you are rotating the crank at the same time, so don't be afraid to rotate the cams a little I just wouldn't be going more than 180 degrees and don't rotate both at the same time. Good luck, but your best bet now might be to have it towed to the nearest dealer before you really screw something up...
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07-20-2003, 10:07 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Quote:
The cam marks are visible. In fact all of the marks were lined up before I started to pull the belt off. The driver's cams rotated on their own. Now I just have to figure out the best way to get them back without damaging anything... |
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07-20-2003, 10:09 PM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Austin,
One of the things that precipitated this fiasco was a discussion you and I and a few others were having regarding the crank seal / oil pump seal leak on the WRX. IIRC, to get to the crank seal you said to remove the crank gear. How exactly does the crank gear come off? Does it need to be pried off or wiggled off? It seems to be pretty secure. |
07-20-2003, 11:28 PM | #8 |
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TXIC
Vehicle:2002 STI Ver 9 Spec C Wagon |
Crank gears sometime have a woodriff (spelling?) key, which you have to knock out. I'm not sure that ours do- I have yet to open an EJ20.
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07-20-2003, 11:59 PM | #9 | |
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Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
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Quote:
A woodruff key is a half-moon shaped metal piece. The crankshaft has a circular indentation which the woodruff key slips into, and the flat side of the woodruff key protrudes from the crankshaft and secures the crank timing gear and crank damper pulley. Look at the crank damper you've removed from the car. See the square notch cut from the inside of the damper? That notch slides over the woodruff key. You remove the timing gear in the same manner that you removed the crank damper. It will slide over the key off the crankshaft. Don't try to knock out the key before taking off the timing gear - it won't come out. Once the timing gear is removed, the woodruff key will fall out on it's own. You may need to pry the timing gear - be gentle. Apply a little force on one side, a little force on another side, etc etc, and wiggle it loose. |
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07-21-2003, 12:03 AM | #10 |
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If it's got a woodruff key, be careful not to damage/loose it or the slot it slides in. I agree in saying take it to dealer. Pay $300+ and save k's.
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07-21-2003, 12:06 AM | #11 |
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Member#: 7089
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No reason to take it to a dealer. You're obviously competent enough to handle the job. The second time it's much easier.
Oh, and a woodruff key is all of $0.75 from the dealer if you lose it... but you won't lose it. |
07-21-2003, 08:37 AM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
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Thanks guys. I figure if I'm competent enough to pull the intake manifold, install rails and injectors, and get it all back on without any problems, I should be able to handle this.
I just need to get the question answered about getting the cams back in place. Can I simply rotate them until the alignment marks are back where they are supposed to be? Clockwise or counter-clockwise? One at a time? |
07-21-2003, 01:11 PM | #13 | ||
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Vehicle:2016 STi |
Quote:
Yes, you can simply rotate the cam gears back to their proper positions. Do you understand the reason they moved in the first place? Just to make sure you saw what I posted above: Quote:
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07-21-2003, 01:37 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Quote:
I just wanted to make sure I could rotate the cams back without damaging anything. I guess as long as the crank doesn't move, and I'm just putting the cams back where they were anyway, there shouldn't be a problem. |
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07-21-2003, 01:42 PM | #15 |
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for the future there are tools that will hold the cams in place
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07-21-2003, 01:43 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Vehicle:2016 STi |
Quote:
If you were to rotate the cams more than back to their original position, you could open both sets of valves in a cylinder at the same time, and bend the valve stems from contact. |
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07-21-2003, 02:01 PM | #17 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Quote:
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07-21-2003, 05:49 PM | #18 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
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Rather than describe it, I'll just give you a pic.
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07-21-2003, 06:02 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Vehicle:2016 STi |
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07-21-2003, 06:04 PM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Vehicle:2016 STi |
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07-21-2003, 06:21 PM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12670
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Granite Bay, Kalifornia
Vehicle:01 M Coupe, 05 Legacy GT, 05 Titan |
Grassy arse.
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