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Old 08-04-2022, 12:57 PM   #26
Straight6
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Hard to tell with the very limited sales data we have so far and the market craziness. Recession is also here so who knows if they will even continue to make it if it gets really bad. Also, see my link above, VW is very likely to pull the plug on the GTI/R as well.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:58 PM   #27
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So around 32% increase in sales. 32%>10%. Thanks.

There's no value proposition to make people WANT the new model over the old model like there was between '13 and '14. Sure, numbers are about the same, but that exemplifies stagnation as historically (and you can probably go back) when a new generation model is released, they usually bump about 25-30% from previous segment. Market was the same last and this year, but the new car? Not good enough for people to value a jump in buyers.
So a 192,000 % increase in sales for the BRZ! Impossible to compare the two releases directly as the market is completely different and the car sales are significantly down in general. As I said, it is doing much better against its competitors than the VA did and we are only going by 4 months of sales so far.

If you are still hung up on the sales percentage comparison between the different gens, take out the STI from 2021 July sales since they still included the STI, take out around 500 units..You are around 38 percent increase and this not taking into consideration a what 15- 20 % ? drop in sales in the market overall from July 2021 vs July 22.

Last edited by Straight6; 08-04-2022 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:59 PM   #28
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[...] Furthermore, to put things into perspective so far the VB outsold its closest competitor at a much higher rate than the VA did during the same period.
It's clear that VW doesn't produce as many GTI and Golf R compared to Subaru andWRX.
There are 95 new WRX within 100 miles of my 94560 zipcode but only 34 new GTI and 1 Golf R.
And that 1 Golf R is a maybe; probably a sold order.
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Old 08-04-2022, 06:55 PM   #29
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It sells less, so therefore it's worse. GET WITH THE PROGRAM. NOTHING ELSE GOING ON IN THE WORLD WORTH NOTING.

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Old 08-04-2022, 06:57 PM   #30
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So if Subaru stopped making the STI I would assume that would mean more capacity to make more WRX's? And those 500 or so sales a month that would normally go to the STI, shouldn't that mean the WRX should see an even bigger boost in sales because the guy/girl who wanted an STI is likely going to have to settle for a WRX now?
Well, the death of the STI is a recent development. It wasn't due out till next year(late this year initially, then moved to next) And to that, then the increase in last months sales could possibly because of that news, eh? So, now we must wait and see how sales move from here. If it goes up?...... If it goes down?......
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Old 08-04-2022, 06:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
It's clear that VW doesn't produce as many GTI and Golf R compared to Subaru andWRX.
There are 95 new WRX within 100 miles of my 94560 zipcode but only 34 new GTI and 1 Golf R.
And that 1 Golf R is a maybe; probably a sold order.
Did you confirm if all 95 of those are on the ground and not in transit?
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
It's clear that VW doesn't produce as many GTI and Golf R compared to Subaru andWRX.
There are 95 new WRX within 100 miles of my 94560 zipcode but only 34 new GTI and 1 Golf R.
And that 1 Golf R is a maybe; probably a sold order.
They are already discounting the GTI in my area, 500 off MSRP no questions asked. Recession is here. Nobody cares about the Golf R, it is grossly overpriced so they sell few hundred units a year to appease some VW fanboys left in the US. It is dead for the next generation anyway.
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:19 PM   #33
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......so they sell few hundred units a year to appease some VW fanboys left in the US....
And why couldn't Subaru do this?



And to be clear, I know the answer. Just curious what you'd come up with.
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:20 PM   #34
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And why couldn't Subaru do this?
It is a dead market not worth pursuing at this point. BTW VW is throwing in the towel too:
https://www.motor1.com/news/602151/vw-golf-9-in-doubt/
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:20 PM   #35
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It is a dead market not worth pursuing at this point.
Dang. Ninja edit too slow
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:27 PM   #36
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It is a dead market not worth pursuing at this point. BTW VW is throwing in the towel too:
https://www.motor1.com/news/602151/vw-golf-9-in-doubt/
Ha. Beat your ninja edit



But, isn't VW just shifting to EVs? Only losers would be those soo hell bent on burning gas. Those willing to shift will still be able to get something. Soo, the entire segment isn't necessarily dead. Just shifting. Unless you just have to call the sporty EV a totally new segment?
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:32 PM   #37
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Ha. Beat your ninja edit



But, isn't VW just shifting to EVs? Only losers would be those soo hell bent on burning gas. Those willing to shift will still be able to get something. Soo, the entire segment isn't necessarily dead. Just shifting. Unless you just have to call the sporty EV a totally new segment?
Correct. They actually had a 400 hp plus hybrid R going on but decided last minute just to polish off the EA888 and not to pursue the platform anymore. It is all EV from this point on and the GTI and R are dead as we know it. ID4 is a perfect example as to where the company is going.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:22 PM   #38
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Yes but we were also told if there is ever another STi it would likely be electrified. And I'm going to guess this is the last gen WRX with a pure ICE engine. Subaru does a lot right, but MPG is very much lacking and either the next WRX goes EV or Hybrid or will be killed off. CAFE is very real and coming in a big way in the next couple years.

It would not shock me if Subaru completely ditches sports cars in the next 3-5 years.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:38 PM   #39
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Did you confirm if all 95 of those are on the ground and not in transit?
When I bought my GTI and talked to probably 10+ dealerships in NC, VA, and DC, in my rough estimation, about 80% of GTIs were locked down with deposits. Typically dealers would be aware of cars coming in around 3 months in advance. Once they receive a vin for the car (4-6 weeks out) they would typically list the car. Some dealers won't post it to Autotrader, etc until the car hits port and is 2-3 weeks prior to delivery.
Whether the car had a deposit or not, they would still list it online (and might mark it as pre-sold directly on the dealers website, but list it as available on Autotrader)

I was only able to secure my car because someone backed out at the last minute.
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Old 08-05-2022, 03:06 AM   #40
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They are already discounting the GTI in my area, 500 off MSRP no questions asked. Recession is here. Nobody cares about the Golf R, it is grossly overpriced so they sell few hundred units a year to appease some VW fanboys left in the US. It is dead for the next generation anyway.
The WRX is selling below MSRP around here.
Golf R is "grossly" overpriced and WRX GT pricing is fair?
Then again, as I said before, Subaru doesn't need to worry about VW; it's Hyundai and KIA that are eating their lunch at the moment.


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Old 08-05-2022, 09:11 AM   #41
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The WRX is selling below MSRP around here.
Golf R is "grossly" overpriced and WRX GT pricing is fair?
Then again, as I said before, Subaru doesn't need to worry about VW; it's Hyundai and KIA that are eating their lunch at the moment.


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There are crazy mark ups on the R but yes I think the WRX GT is also overpriced, even at MSRP. As far as Hyundai and KIA, not sure if you were referring to the entire Subaru brand, which maybe the case but WRX specifically has nothing to worry about outside of a limited availability Elantra N. What Subaru needs to do is offer a sport/Ts/STI line WRX model with the adjustable dampers and better brakes. Cut out the sunroof too and price it around 35K, that would be sweet. The WRX built options are really weird right now.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:19 AM   #42
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Yes but we were also told if there is ever another STi it would likely be electrified. And I'm going to guess this is the last gen WRX with a pure ICE engine. Subaru does a lot right, but MPG is very much lacking and either the next WRX goes EV or Hybrid or will be killed off. CAFE is very real and coming in a big way in the next couple years.

It would not shock me if Subaru completely ditches sports cars in the next 3-5 years.
I think so too. This is the final ICE WRX and if they are behind with EV/Hybrid vehicles, it will not be a priority so we may not see it for couple of years. If you read the Golf article, they will not be able to meet the standards as well. Basically the companies are being forced into making EVs. The good part is that if you look at the Cupra E-racers, it screams to me that what the next GTI/R will be and it looks really fun. We are just going to have wait a bit, that's the part that sucks.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:45 AM   #43
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They are already discounting the GTI in my area, 500 off MSRP no questions asked. Recession is here. Nobody cares about the Golf R, it is grossly overpriced so they sell few hundred units a year to appease some VW fanboys left in the US. It is dead for the next generation anyway.
Youíre so full of it. You realize VW has sold the GTI since the 70s. Golf R is low production, they cap them at 2500 units per year. They canít even support that many due to supplier issues that are in the Ukraine. The R is not overpriced. $38k for a limited WRX is overpriced. MK8 R is extremely fast stock 0-60/1/4mile - it would beat a fully modified Wrx or sti from a dig.

The WRX will die before the GTI. I donít know how you can sit here and say these ridiculous statements over and over again. Starting to thing thereís something wrong.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:46 AM   #44
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When I bought my GTI and talked to probably 10+ dealerships in NC, VA, and DC, in my rough estimation, about 80% of GTIs were locked down with deposits. Typically dealers would be aware of cars coming in around 3 months in advance. Once they receive a vin for the car (4-6 weeks out) they would typically list the car. Some dealers won't post it to Autotrader, etc until the car hits port and is 2-3 weeks prior to delivery.
Whether the car had a deposit or not, they would still list it online (and might mark it as pre-sold directly on the dealers website, but list it as available on Autotrader)

I was only able to secure my car because someone backed out at the last minute.
Same thing I had to travel 150 miles for a GTI. Straight6 has zero idea what heís talking about.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:40 AM   #45
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VW has zero stock on almost anything. I looked at a dozen dealers across New England they are pretty much out of Taos/Tiguan. Would not be surprised if there just aren't any GTI/R's for sale because, well, they can't make enough.

These types of cars are not the priority. They are going to prioritize their most expensive vehicles first for parts and chips, just like GM/Ford/ everyone else is doing.
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:22 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by fathatch View Post
When I bought my GTI and talked to probably 10+ dealerships in NC, VA, and DC, in my rough estimation, about 80% of GTIs were locked down with deposits. Typically dealers would be aware of cars coming in around 3 months in advance. Once they receive a vin for the car (4-6 weeks out) they would typically list the car. Some dealers won't post it to Autotrader, etc until the car hits port and is 2-3 weeks prior to delivery.
Whether the car had a deposit or not, they would still list it online (and might mark it as pre-sold directly on the dealers website, but list it as available on Autotrader)

I was only able to secure my car because someone backed out at the last minute.

Allocations are not done that far in advanced. Sold orders may show that far out; but, sold orders also don't show in anyone's system except the selling retailers. And I doubt any of them list a sold order on their site. So, if you see one on a retailer site, it's either for sale or in transit. Just curious of that 95 mentioned, how many were in transit.....if any. I'm gonna guess at least half of them were/are,
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:56 AM   #47
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In this insignificant man's opinion.. I think any brand, out here trying to use lithium batteries, simply because some Shadow org is trying to shove them down our throats EVEN THOUGH solid state batteries is proven to be better and just around the corner... AND the fact that hydrogen can literally increase your mileage, power, and make your ICE achieve closer to 90-100% burn, is a company trying to shoot themselves in the foot.

No one is going to pay for new 12-14,000 dollar batteries to be installed in cars with 100k on them. They will opt to Junk them, while ICE cars with 200k are still buzzing around the streets. So more lithium and junked car waste like that of trashed cell phones.

Unsustainable. STI deserves Hydrogen, not some P.O.S toxic lithium Battery
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:04 PM   #48
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In this insignificant man's opinion.. I think any brand, out here trying to use lithium batteries, simply because some Shadow org is trying to shove them down our throats EVEN THOUGH solid state batteries is proven to be better and just around the corner... AND the fact that hydrogen can literally increase your mileage, power, and make your ICE achieve closer to 90-100% burn, is a company trying to shoot themselves in the foot.

No one is going to pay for new 12-14,000 dollar batteries to be installed in cars with 100k on them. They will opt to Junk them, while ICE cars with 200k are still buzzing around the streets. So more lithium and junked car waste like that of trashed cell phones.

Unsustainable. STI deserves Hydrogen, not some P.O.S toxic lithium Battery
You don't have to like BEV's and think that the future will put us somewhere else, But... Solid state batteries are still lithium, the only difference is the electrolyte is solid vs liquid. Also, hydrogen is currently worse than gasoline from a CO2 standpoint, so no, that's not currently a solution for anything.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:08 PM   #49
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Same thing I had to travel 150 miles for a GTI. Straight6 has zero idea what he's talking about.
Why do you people continue to converse with this troll? Many of us have him on ignore but posters continuing to quote him are ruining it for posters that don't appreciate Subaru fanboy troll posts. Put this guy and Derphawk on ignore and the experience here is infinitely better for everyone.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:13 PM   #50
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Correct. They actually had a 400 hp plus hybrid R going on but decided last minute just to polish off the EA888 and not to pursue the platform anymore. It is all EV from this point on and the GTI and R are dead as we know it. ID4 is a perfect example as to where the company is going.
The ID.4 is definitely not the entire story and you know it. It's the start of the story. An awd ID3 GTX is slated to come out next year in europe with 295 hp. They had a prototype id.x running around with 335 hp and 460 nm tq to help study what an ID.3 R would be. I would not be surprised if it takes 4+ years for things like that to hit US shores, but I believe it's coming...
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