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Old 11-17-2017, 08:45 AM   #1
WhatTurboLag?
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Default IGN-1A coil packs. Any reason they havenít been explored?

Any reason no one has explored (to my knowledge) the IGN-1A coil packs? They are relatively cheap and physically wiring them would be straight forward. I asked a tuner and they believed the stock ECU could be setup to run em, but that is above my skill level or knowledge. They are much superior in terms of ignition performance and a place like magnecor can make custom wires.

All it would need at that point is tuning (potentially) to set them up and wiring which could be made into a harness kit since the packs are all self contained, and a nice bracket to mount them. And of course the plug wires.


I honestly believe they could be setup for less than a set of stock coil packs and much much superior. Even though 98% of people have no issues with the stock ones. Hell I donít either. Iím just looking for a project and something to do
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:50 AM   #2
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Possibly because of the amount of fab work needed to mount them and the need for custom plug wires. IMO the Subaru community (or at least the portion that spends it's time on the forums) as a whole like plug and play stuff and Off The Line and Okada Projects both make plug and play coils that are superior to the OEM coils.

As far as wiring and making them work The IGN-1As have the addition of a driect from battery + and - that allows them to more than double the stock coil's output energy. Diagrams are as follows:

IGN-1A:
A - Coil Trigger (ECU Trigger)
B - Coil Trigger (ECU 0V)
C - GND to Cyl Head
D - Battery GND
E - Battery POS

OEM Subaru
1 - ECU 12V
2 - Engine GND
3 - ECU Trigger

I'm not sure about whether or not the IGN-1A coils can be set up With their Coil Triggers as being both power supplies. You would have to confirm with Motec on that. Or if you could find an ECU GND that you could use instead and forget about the ECU 12V the stock coils use as all the IGN-1As need from the ECU is the trigger and a ground for the trigger. I don't doubt you would need to configure the ECU to run them like this but you would have to do some harness reconstruction as you don't want live, unused wires sitting in it. Possibly run them strait to an engine ground with a resistor in line? I'll have to double check the wiring diagrams to see if they are shared with anything else or not.

I'm just thinking out loud here, best bet is to ask a wiring specialist or Motec about it and see what they think.
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:13 AM   #3
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Electronics are not my strong point, which is why I posted here but I think Iím understanding as follows:


A is subaru 3
B is ECU ground (new wire? Run to any ECU ground?)
C is ground to cylinder head (obvious) and is Subaru 2
D ground to battery
E power from battery

1 on Subaru unused since that was the original power supply. Is this a constant 12v supply? I assume so.

I believe a pretty decently straight forward harness could be developed. But it is more involved than I initially thought. But a lot of the things can be used together on a common point.
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
Electronics are not my strong point, which is why I posted here but I think Iím understanding as follows:


A is subaru 3
B is ECU ground (new wire? Run to any ECU ground?) Yes you'll need a new wire and you'll need to find a ground pin on the ECU that isn't noisy but also isn't a shield ground
C is ground to cylinder head (obvious) and is Subaru 2
D ground to battery
E power from battery

1 on Subaru unused since that was the original power supply. Is this a constant 12v supply? I assume so. Yes it's a constant 12v, it's shared with some other things I just can't remember atm

I believe a pretty decently straight forward harness could be developed. But it is more involved than I initially thought. But a lot of the things can be used together on a common point. It would have to be a custom harness for each car as the integration with that ground pin is too detailed for a mass produced harness to be made and look/function properly 100% of the time
This is why most just go for one of the ots coils that I mentioned earlier Much simpler and you probably won't notice the benefit of IGN-1As at the power level most Subarus are at. CJ's Hawkeye, White Bullet, JR's '15 STI are probably the type of cars that will start to see a benefit over the current ots offerings.
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:33 PM   #5
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I may take a stab at it over winter if I run out of things to do. the coils aren't too expensive and its a matter of having myself and my buddy who is good with wiring figure it out.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:08 AM   #6
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Ok. So I have already done this swap my self. I purchased the coil harness from sakebomb garage as well as their universal mounts.

http://www.sakebombgarage.com/univer...a-smart-coils/

They don't advertise their subaru harness kit as their made it especially for me, but call them and they can give you the details. Its actually a modified v8 harness with two of the coil plugs near the battery, and the other two extended to the passenger side. I actually moved my batter to the trunk to get the room, but to each their own.

Also, I would get the positive and negative directly off the battery as the Subaru stock wires are quite thin. This is how the sakebomb garage harness is setup so it's all good. Moreover, I only used the Subaru stock single ignition wires and connected these wires with weather pack connectors.

Regarding the ecu ground, I can't help you as I have a Hydra ems.

I would also suggest however to go ahead and ask them to add 1 relay per coil as that's how the big hp guys (read viper guys) do it.

Regarding the dwell settings, from what I have researched, I would not suggest anything above 7ms or so for stock rpm range. This depends on the ignition coil duty cycle (rpm)
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:08 AM   #7
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Hope that helps
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:50 AM   #8
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I looked around and below are two other options.

https://www.rywire.com/product-p/cop-igbt-harness.htm

https://www.dynotechtuning.com/produ...nition-harness


Keep in mind All three I suggested will require some modifications.

Oh I forgot. Regarding the coil boots, I have a 2006 Subaru STi and 2001 sohc coil wires from advance auto worked ok. I ended up getting magnecore to make me a custom set after I sent them a head I had laying around.

If you have any questions. Hit me up. !
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:31 AM   #9
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The ECU doesn't really have a separate logic ground that I'm aware of. The engine/head ground is the same as logic ground for the ECU.
The only separate ground i'm aware of is for some of the sensors and you definitely don't want any ignition related signal near that.

These coils look to be intended to be drive by a 5V logic level signal. The Subaru Ignition signal is 13-14V according to the manual. According to some quick research this will not function properly.
I'm guessing the hydra supports changing the coil output to logic level.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barge View Post
These coils look to be intended to be drive by a 5V logic level signal. The Subaru Ignition signal is 13-14V according to the manual. According to some quick research this will not function properly.
I'm guessing the hydra supports changing the coil output to logic level.
Are you sure that's not their power supply? Our coils are 3 wire: 12v power, ground, and trigger. IIRC the trigger is 5v, it's also a 20awg wire as opposed to the power and ground's 16awg which is the same as all the other 5v signal wires going to solenoids and stepper motors and such. I could be wrong but it doesn't make sense to trigger something with 12v power when it already has a dedicated 12v supply. But then again this is Subaru.....our injectors use a shared power source and switched grounds, so idk
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:38 AM   #11
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I would have to agree with nick441 here based on a couple things. First off, the stock subaru wire thickness are as he says. Secondly, I previously had the OEM coils hooked up and when I upgraded, I used the stock signal wires and did not change anything within the Hydra (besides dwell) to compensate for the new coils. Thus they are using the stock signal.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlewSTi View Post
I would have to agree with nick441 here based on a couple things. First off, the stock subaru wire thickness are as he says. Secondly, I previously had the OEM coils hooked up and when I upgraded, I used the stock signal wires and did not change anything within the Hydra (besides dwell) to compensate for the new coils. Thus they are using the stock signal.
Regarding the grounds, I understand the confusion as I still don't grasp it 100%. The following directions are provided with the aem smart coils (same as ign-1a) as well as everyone i talked to that uses these coils and most coil harnesses I have seen.

http://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/54...il.html?page=2

The coils are very strong and need a good power supply as well as grounds. So that would explain the need for a dedicated power and ground independent if the OEM harness. Our heads are dohc and have a deep spark plug tube. This combined with a high energy coil can cause arcing from the plug to the spark plug tube. For this reason I believe the head ground is important. The OEM coils btw also have this ground (the brass looking bolt).

The ecu or sensor ground is also important. However when I probed (car off) up my ecu ground to the battery ground, it showed continuity so I am not 100% sure of it's purpose. I do believe it can be a sort of floating ground, but I am not certain.

Anyways every manual i have seen says to set it up with a separate ecu ground, so I didn't risk it and hooked it up like that.

I hope this helps
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:04 PM   #13
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In my research people recommend running the logic ground back to the ECU area at least as it's more of a noise prevention.
The coil ground is the power ground which is a big ground back to the battery (or heads...some people run them there)
Some people have connected all 3 ground to the head without issue even though it's not "recommended". It really depends on how good all your ground connections are.

The gauge of the wire really has nothing to do with the voltage. It's all based on the current flow... which is low for a trigger type command to a coil whether it's 5V or 12V (in fact for the same power requirement 12V would actually require less current).

But I'm just going off what I see in the manual. I've not actually measured it. It could very well be 5V.

Obviously it works because you're using them... just presenting the information I see.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:12 PM   #14
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Well that makes things more clear for sure. I’ll give those sakebomb guys a call and see what’s up aswell.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick411 View Post
Possibly because of the amount of fab work needed to mount them and the need for custom plug wires. IMO the Subaru community (or at least the portion that spends it's time on the forums) as a whole like plug and play stuff and Off The Line and Okada Projects both make plug and play coils that are superior to the OEM coils.

As far as wiring and making them work The IGN-1As have the addition of a driect from battery + and - that allows them to more than double the stock coil's output energy. Diagrams are as follows:

IGN-1A:
A - Coil Trigger (ECU Trigger)
B - Coil Trigger (ECU 0V)
C - GND to Cyl Head
D - Battery GND
E - Battery POS

OEM Subaru
1 - ECU 12V
2 - Engine GND
3 - ECU Trigger

I'm not sure about whether or not the IGN-1A coils can be set up With their Coil Triggers as being both power supplies. You would have to confirm with Motec on that. Or if you could find an ECU GND that you could use instead and forget about the ECU 12V the stock coils use as all the IGN-1As need from the ECU is the trigger and a ground for the trigger. I don't doubt you would need to configure the ECU to run them like this but you would have to do some harness reconstruction as you don't want live, unused wires sitting in it. Possibly run them strait to an engine ground with a resistor in line? I'll have to double check the wiring diagrams to see if they are shared with anything else or not.

I'm just thinking out loud here, best bet is to ask a wiring specialist or Motec about it and see what they think.
What makes those coils better over OEM?
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Is_Dead182 View Post
What makes those coils better over OEM?
Their output energy is significantly higher (a little over twice the the energy), so the spark is much stronger. This allows you to not only run a wider plug gap but the combustion process is more complete as the flame front is more powerful resulting in a more complete burn of the air/fuel mix, which results in a more powerful power stroke. Basically it means you get more power from the same amount of air and fuel and it's more reliable at higher engine speeds as the amount of spark energy that drops off the shorter the dwell time is, is much less than the factory coils which drop off significantly and sooner than most think (spark energy at redline is about half that of cruising speeds). This means there's a much smaller chance of your spark being blown out or not making the jump. In facts the amount of energy the IGN-1As produce at a realistic dwell time at 8000rpm is more than likely greater than the factory coil is capable of producing at the longest dwell time it can be run at. Most combat this with smaller plug gaps but that also results in less spark energy (the greater the gap the more energy needed to jump it) but that's really only a band-aid to be able to run with an inferior coil.



And yes I'm aware of wire size having nothing to do with voltage and everything to do with current, I just couldn't figure out a better way of explaining that.....even though it's wrong .
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:44 PM   #17
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I talked to iwire and we are going to most likely devlop something, if i don't go with someone else who has already more or less done it on another car. but they are familiar with the coil packs. but are also on the stock coilpack bandwagon
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
I talked to iwire and we are going to most likely devlop something, if i don't go with someone else who has already more or less done it on another car. but they are familiar with the coil packs. but are also on the stock coilpack bandwagon
I'd be interested in an initial group buy if they do something like that.
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