Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday January 16, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2019, 08:21 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Dodge Grand Caravan Outsold All Minivans And Many SUVs In 2018

Year-over-year sales for the original minivan were up 21 percent.


Quote:
Automakers of the world are scrambling to build as many SUVs as possible because buyers are undeniably crazy for them. However, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is quietly sitting on over 270,000 minivan sales for 2018, with the original minivan – the Dodge Grand Caravan – posting 151,927 sales alone. That’s enough to positively kill every other minivan on the market, and it surpasses quite a few SUVs as well. Perhaps minivans aren’t a done deal just yet.

With 2018 sales data pouring in, we decided to take a closer look at the once-preferred machine for family duties. The Grand Caravan is still an exceptionally strong seller, posting a year-over-year increase of 21 percent in a market supposedly dominated by SUVs and crossovers. By comparison, the Caravan handily outsold the Dodge Durango SUV by over 80,000 units. It beat other notable SUVs from crosstown rivals too, including the Ford Edge and Chevrolet Traverse, not to mention its stablemate, the Chrysler Pacifica. The Pacifica held its own, however, showing no loss or gain from the previous year with 118,322 sales in 2018.

As far as other minivan competition is concerned, following the Pacifica is the Honda Odyssey with 106,327 sales. Toyota sold 87,672 Sienna minivans, and Kia sold just 17,928 Sedonas. That’s all there is in the minivan segment these days, at least for U.S. buyers.

We’ve often said that SUVs, while certainly possessing some appeal, are generally not as good at taking care of larger families as a proper minivan. There’s more passenger space – especially when it comes to hauling six or seven people – and accessing the back row of even a full-size SUV isn’t as easy as going through the large sliding side doors of a minivan. Prices are generally lower as well, and for buyers seeking a vehicle with dynamics closer to a car instead of a truck, minivans win there too. The tradeoffs are ground clearance and all-wheel-drive capability, but unless your daily commute involves seriously backwoods terrain, such things are generally a non-issue.

We bet there are more than a few auto executives around the world looking at the Caravan’s impressive 2018 performance and wondering if there’s something to be done there. We’re betting there is.

Source: FCA
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-04-2019, 10:22 AM   #2
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX
and a Sienna

Default

I was going to come in here and ask WTF was wrong with people - I've driven new Grand Caravan and Town & Country, and man are they abysmal. I'm kissing my Sienna's floor mats when I get back into it, I'm so happy to see it after driving those things.

But dang, you can get a Dodge cheap. MSRP is good, then after incentives you're a whole decent used car cheaper than pretty much the cheapest new Sienna or Odyssey.
fredzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 10:35 AM   #3
Angelus911
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89967
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sport
DGM

Default

We had a grand caravan as a rental on a road trip a couple years ago, man was it an awful car to drive. The transmission was awful, the seats uncomfortable. The only redeeming thing was the amount of space we had to carry all our crap around.
Angelus911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 11:27 AM   #4
alape8
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 337748
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Denver
Default

I question whether or not these are sales to consumers or if it includes fleet sales. The majority of vans I see at rental places are Grand Caravans, which would explain a lot...
alape8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 12:05 PM   #5
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:
... White Magic
Jesus Underwear

Default

I’m not sure why people think they are horrible. I use to rent them often for work and found them to be damn comfortable, rather quick and no issues except for that I was in a mini van
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 12:30 PM   #6
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
Viper GTS

Default

I thought the Carvan was dead and Pacifica was the only Chrysler minivan left, so I went searching images and . . . 2018 Caravan does exist and looks identical to the 2008 model. Yikes.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 01:01 PM   #7
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Castle Grayscale
Vehicle:
1980 Ferrari Turbo
Pando Periwinkle Pearl

Default

They are great to rent and nearly almost converts me to buy one each time I do. Nearly. Almost.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 01:03 PM   #8
Hondaslayer
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4562
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:
2014 Electric Datsun
2005 Adventure van

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
I was going to come in here and ask WTF was wrong with people - I've driven new Grand Caravan and Town & Country, and man are they abysmal. I'm kissing my Sienna's floor mats when I get back into it, I'm so happy to see it after driving those things.

But dang, you can get a Dodge cheap. MSRP is good, then after incentives you're a whole decent used car cheaper than pretty much the cheapest new Sienna or Odyssey.
Yup, and that Dodge will be higher trim to boot.

It's even worse on the used market. When I bought my T&C it was a few grand cheaper than a Honda or Toyota but had literally half the miles, was 2 years newer and fully loaded.
Hondaslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 02:33 PM   #9
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2018 M2 LCI

Default

We usually rent minivans for family vacations and the I found the Caravan far nicer than the last late model Sienna. I was actually quite appalled with the Sienna for it's cheap interior and unrefined ride and noise. I feel the Chrysler minivans are amongst the best used vehicle bargains as they depreciate so fast that they can be had in low mileage for half the price of comparable import minivans and I don't feel the import offerings are much better overall. Anyone that pays $40k US for an Odyssey is crazy IMO.

If you have kids minivans are still by far the best family vehicles. SUV's these days have barely more space inside than cars and a minivan is cavernous in comparison.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 03:54 PM   #10
thill
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: North Pole
Vehicle:
17 Focus RS
Stealth Grey

Default

I wonder how many of these are fleet sales? That aside these are selling well because families with lots of needs to haul things find them to be a bargain vs competitors or SUV's. They are a box on wheels so you have tons of useable storage, you can fit 8ft sheets of plywood, the seats fold easily, and they are not that bad to ride in. Decent power and lots of features for the money.

We are on our third Odyssey and we almost bought a Pacifica but if we had a tighter budget I can see getting one of these.

The big downside is resale vs Odyssey and Sienna. Yes you pay a lot less for a T&C but they depreciate like a rock and lose more money on the backend. We drive our Odyssey's into the ground (we average about 18-20K miles per year) and they still retain strong resale value. We had almost 100K miles on our 2013 and I got $18K for it. A 2013 T&C with 100K miles would be lucky to get half that amount on resale.
thill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 04:29 PM   #11
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX
and a Sienna

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
They are great to rent and nearly almost converts me to buy one each time I do. Nearly. Almost.
That's what finally got me, the rental. I knew we would be wise to get a minivan since forever, but, you know. I mean its almost a perfect vehicle. Then I got stuck with a Sienna as a rental and drove it through the mountains of VA. The steering, brakes, engine/throttle, all so good. Just a nice driving vehicle. We bought one about a year later.

I've had Caravans as rentals recently, and spent a lot of time behind the wheel of my in-laws' fully loaded T&C. If either of those had been my rental that one week instead of a Sienna, We'd probably still have an SUV. I can definitely appreciate the stow-n-go, but I've never encountered a need for that yet. 4X8 sheets can go over top of the folded seats in the Sienna. And the Chrysler interior looks nice at first, but its pure tacky to me. Awkward ergo, don't like the feel of any of the controls. The ride and power are good, but vague handling. When my father in-law tell us to just take his van, my wife and I are always like "lol, yeah right."
fredzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 06:08 PM   #12
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G,
EJ205

Default

God I love me some minivans... Their return to prominence in neigh!
car_freak85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 06:38 PM   #13
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

Oh, dogs. Sure, I like dags. I like caravans more.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 04:39 AM   #14
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Default

I do like the fold-into-the-floor rear seats. Great rental for surf trips.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 01:26 PM   #15
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'18 Tesla M3D
'19 Pacifica PHEV

Default

I can't find actual fleet numbers but it's no secret that the Grand Caravan is ubiquitous on rental lots. That's a huge distortion to its reported sales figures.

https://www.autonews.com/article/201...t-keep-the-old

It's an adequate vehicle (and I end up renting them often) but there's a reason the Pacifica is positioned at a higher price point as it's nicer all around.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 12:41 PM   #16
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Vehicle:
OLD Family Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Oh, dogs. Sure, I like dags. I like caravans more.
do you want one for yer ma? what do you think you are? some kind of sweet-talking, tattoo-sporting pikey? a gypsy bare-knuckle boxing champion?
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 11:14 AM   #17
Sub!eDr!ver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 88924
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Vehicle:
2014 Cadenza, Sedona
Past: Tribeca LGTx2 Justy

Default

The Dodge twins are okay but not great. I've had a Dodge Caravan and a T&C as rentals while my '16 Sedona was in the shop, and both times I was itching to get my Sedona back.

I did like the 8-speed transmission, and the theater lighting in the ceiling, but the rest felt cheap, top-heavy, sluggish & awkward.

I bought my Sedona because it was a step above the Odyssey and Sienna in driving feel, and the feature-set was better than both at a cheaper price.
Sub!eDr!ver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 01:31 PM   #18
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
** LP640
Viper GTS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
I wonder how many of these are fleet sales?
All of them. Here is the 2019 model:

White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 04:19 PM   #19
Mechie3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120152
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy
Default

We got convinced by a rental. Road trips from Indy to NY were in a rented Grand Caravan and we decided it was time. We ended up with a Pacifica though (used). The GC is pretty much the same thing it's been for years which is why we didn't get it. Even if it was new in 2018 it's still essentially a 10 year old design both mechanically and style wise. We plan to keep it for a good decade or more and didn't want our 10 year old car to essentially be 20 by the time we're through with it.
Mechie3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 04:37 PM   #20
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Castle Grayscale
Vehicle:
1980 Ferrari Turbo
Pando Periwinkle Pearl

Default

SoDealer was on here telling us minivans are completely dead as viable products. Nobody wants them.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 04:44 PM   #21
Hondaslayer
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4562
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:
2014 Electric Datsun
2005 Adventure van

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
SoDealer was on here telling us minivans are completely dead as viable products. Nobody wants them.
Yup,


Subaru is still missing a good market, especially with the #vanlife **** going on now.


There is no replacement on the market for the AWD Astro vans. Give us a safe, AWD, reliable van that can sleep a small family inside. It covers the core Subaru lifestyle owners. Younger couples that enjoy outdoor activities (mountain biking, kayaking etc...) that may or may not have 1 or 2 little ones.
Hondaslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 05:25 PM   #22
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

The Sienna is available in AWD. How would a Subaru minivan compete with Astro vans where the Sienna doesn't?

After comparing the insides of the Ascent and Pilot directly, I wouldn't touch a minivan made by Subaru unless they majorly upgrade their interior quality.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 05:27 PM   #23
Hondaslayer
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4562
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:
2014 Electric Datsun
2005 Adventure van

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The Sienna is available in AWD. How would a Subaru minivan compete with Astro vans where the Sienna doesn't?

After comparing the insides of the Ascent and Pilot directly, I wouldn't touch a minivan made by Subaru unless they majorly upgrade their interior quality.
Interior space, ground clearance. Sienna is great for highway trips and all modern minivans suck off pavement.
Hondaslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 10:03 AM   #24
Sub!eDr!ver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 88924
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Vehicle:
2014 Cadenza, Sedona
Past: Tribeca LGTx2 Justy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Year-over-year sales for the original minivan were up 21 percent.
I didn't realize VW was still making the Microbus.

Every time somebody claims that Chrysler made the original minivan, I laugh.
VW had a lock on the market way before Chrysler came out with theirs. First built in 1950.

Chrysler didn't make theirs until 1984.

Toyota also introduced their generically-named Toyota Van in 1984, and it seems that Toyota brought theirs out two months prior to the Chrysler triplets. It had dual A/C & an ice maker/cooler.

So why don't we say Toyota made the original, since they introduced theirs before Chrysler and it had more features and better space management (but then we'd still have to ignore VW).

What about the Chevy Corvair Van from 1964?
(but that was basically a copy of the VW van - Chevy even copied the VW van-based pickup with their Corvair pickup)

Edit: Looks like the Corvair Greenbriar van came out in 1961.

Last edited by Sub!eDr!ver; 01-10-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Sub!eDr!ver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 10:13 AM   #25
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Vehicle:
OLD Family Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
I didn't realize VW was still making the Microbus.

Every time somebody claims that Chrysler made the original minivan, I laugh.
VW had a lock on the market way before Chrysler came out with theirs. First built in 1950.

Chrysler didn't make theirs until 1984.

Toyota also introduced their generically-named Toyota Van in 1984, and it seems that Toyota brought theirs out two months prior to the Chrysler triplets. It had dual A/C & an ice maker/cooler.

So why don't we say Toyota made the original, since they introduced theirs before Chrysler and it had more features and better space management (but then we'd still have to ignore VW).

What about the Chevy Corvair Van from 1964?
(but that was basically a copy of the VW van - Chevy even copied the VW van-based pickup with their Corvair pickup)

Edit: Looks like the Corvair Greenbriar van came out in 1961.
Econoline Van came out in 1961 as well, and was based on the falcon, but I think when the industry/auto rags etc. talk about the first mini-van it was at a time when there was a "full-size" eg. 1/2 ton BOF van to compare it to.

Think about "compact" trucks today (mid-sized would be more accurate), they are bigger than the compact trucks of the 90's early 2000's, roughly the same size as the 1/2 tons of that era and they are bigger than an F-series from the 50's & 60's.
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.