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10-17-2006, 10:12 PM | #1 |
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newb question about tgv deletes
wtf are they and what do u gain from tgv deletes. also where, how, why, when, which way, etc. etc.
any help on this topic would be apreciated.
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10-17-2006, 10:28 PM | #2 |
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The Tumbler Generating Valves mount between the cylinder head and the intake manifold. And it looks a little something like this:
As you can see, even when open, the air path is restricted. "Deleting" these valves creates a less restricted path. This can be achieved by either removing the guts from a stocker and porting it, or from a new cast like the APS's. |
10-19-2006, 08:51 PM | #3 |
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can this be done with out any tuning or does this usually go along with a certain mod?
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10-19-2006, 08:58 PM | #4 |
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This isn't an easy mod to do, and as with any port and polishing job it is recommended to tune to get the best results.
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10-19-2006, 09:13 PM | #5 |
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so they would be completely wide open all the time? when do they usually open and close?
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10-19-2006, 09:26 PM | #6 |
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Looks a lot like a throttle plate in a carb. or a throttle body in a fuel injected engine. What actuates it, and what function does it serve? Our throttle body is right between the IC and the intake manifold, so why would you need two, or three as is the case...???
DroppedClutch - Nice pics BTW... |
10-19-2006, 09:27 PM | #7 |
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Yea, it can be done without tuning, but, as Kenzo stated, you won't extract a lot of power from it without tuning. Also, unless you tune and turn off some of the errors you'll get a CEL, unless you use the APS units which keep the stepper motors and sensors connected (unless you leave the rod in and just remove the flaps). Most notable, if you aren't pumping serious power, they won't help much and will be somewhat of a waste of money. However, if you are removing the manifold for something else, such as fuel rails, it might be a good time to install them to get ready for future upgrades since it will save you time/money in the long run.
wakeskate, yep, completely open all the time. They are usually closed for cold starts -- emissions nonsense. |
10-19-2006, 09:36 PM | #8 |
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STirocket, they are articulated by a stepper motor on one side; in the bottom pic I posted you can see the gear on the right hand side.. On the other side of the housing is a sensor that measures the angle of the flaps. The usually open around 30 seconds after start up. As stated above they are mostly for cold start emissions. Thanks for the pic comment.
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10-19-2006, 09:59 PM | #9 |
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Here's a quick pic of the motor (left) and sensor (right). The yellowish widget (part of the APS kit) in the middle keeps the two connected and keeps the ECU thinking everything is normal.
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10-19-2006, 10:07 PM | #10 |
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what can you do to get rid of the cels on the stockers when u delete this? Will the protune do it or no.
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10-20-2006, 12:34 AM | #11 |
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thanks for the pics and explaination droppedclutch.
So any more reasons on why they're there beside emission? |
10-20-2006, 12:40 AM | #12 |
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more modding fun?
SOA is so caring aren't they |
11-07-2006, 04:28 PM | #13 |
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bringing back an old one.. are these done for external clearance or your just gonna bottleneck certain turbos so bad that they have to be removed? i ask this because it seems like i have seen that with certain inlets you have to use tgv deletes? correct me if i am wrong
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11-07-2006, 04:35 PM | #14 |
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Both. You can't run a 3" inlet with the position sensor in place. And if you are running a bigger turbo, it will be a limiter, if not a bottleneck.
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11-07-2006, 04:37 PM | #15 |
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gothca... haven't really looked at mine too close... so the sensor is what holds up the 3" inlets
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11-08-2006, 04:12 AM | #16 |
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What CEL do these throw when removed completely? Something that can be accounted for safely or is the CEL releated to anything else vital?
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11-09-2006, 02:00 AM | #17 |
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gozway, yep the sensor is what doesn't allow for 3 inchers. There just isn't much space there even with deletes. I had a difficult time getting my 3" 20G to fit using APS's deletes
crashtke, the related CEL's are very specific, so disabling the ECM from reporting an error should not mask any other problems. I think that's what you are asking. Yes? TGV related codes: Code:
P1086 -- Tumble generator valve #2 (LH) position sensor circuit low input P1087 -- Tumble generator valve #2 (LH) position sensor circuit high input P1088 -- Tumble generator valve #1 (RH) position sensor circuit low input P1089 -- Tumble generator valve #1 (RH) position sensor circuit high input P1090 -- Tumble generator valve #1 (RH) malfunction (stuck open) P1091 -- Tumble generator valve #1 (RH) malfunction (stuck close) P1092 -- Tumble generator valve #2 (LH) malfunction (stuck open) P1093 -- Tumble generator valve #2 (LH) malfunction (stuck close) P1094 -- Tumble generator valve circuit #1 (open circuit) P1095 -- Tumble generator valve circuit #1 (over current) P1096 -- Tumble generator valve circuit #2 (open circuit) P1097 -- Tumble generator valve circuit #2 (over current) |
11-09-2006, 02:21 AM | #18 |
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Yeah that is exactly what I was asking. I am planning on this when I do my 2.5 swap and did not know what to expect. Thanks for the tip!
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11-09-2006, 02:38 AM | #19 |
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Cool, NP. You might want to check out the JDM SPEC-C Version 8 intake manifold. It has longer runners that make delete's unnecessary; a much cleaner approach, IMHO. Gary at gruppe-s is currently hosting a group buy: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1111476
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