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Old 05-31-2009, 09:56 AM   #151
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
Gawd. I want to do this sound deadening **** too.
Would you say it's worth it to DIY?
I might just strip my interior, take it to a shop, and let them handle it.
I have somewhere between 60-80hrs into my sound deadening, you SURE you want to have a shop do it? 40-60$/hr... ?
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:58 AM   #152
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My only wish was that Sound Deadening was cheaper...aren't most of the asphalt ones just asphalt as a sheet/sticker?
Yeah, expense is a problem...

Basically yes, the asphalt ed deadener is that.. but there is more to it...

Have you read "The Sound Deadener Showdown" yet? If not GIS it and read through... It'll tell you a lot...!!
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:11 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS View Post
Yeah, expense is a problem...

Basically yes, the asphalt ed deadener is that.. but there is more to it...

Have you read "The Sound Deadener Showdown" yet? If not GIS it and read through... It'll tell you a lot...!!
I shall read it right now.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:12 AM   #154
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It's a long read, LOTS of great info...
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:24 PM   #155
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Did you modify your door panels at all? Trim some of the excess plastic around the grill/deaden the inside of the panel? I deadened my doors but the door panels still make a little rattle sound!
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:54 PM   #156
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Be sure you do not get the wrong stuff when you start your sound deadening project. There are two components here, and you need both of them if you want it done right and do not care about weight.

-There is the dynamat type stuff ..which is supposed to be used to control vibration although it does help a little with sound too.

-Then there is the self adhesive thick foam stuff which is actually made for sound deadening, and it is really lightweight fortunately.

Dynamat products are really expensive imho. I used the edead stuff which is much cheaper and just as good. Links below for more info:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007P4IS8?ie=UTF8&tag=httpsevenscom-20&link_code=as3&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B0007P4IS8http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPJZYA?ie=UTF8&tag=httpsevenscom-20&link_code=as3&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B000CPJZYA
And as some of you already found out, when you do a good job, it takes quite a bit of material. Better to get more than enough to do a good job the first time (while you have your interior stripped!) than to have to stop and buy more.

If anyone is going to do this and wants some tips, feel free to shoot me a pm...there were lots of little things that ya figure out along the way that knowing before hand would have saved a lot of time

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Last edited by sideout2002; 06-03-2009 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:51 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by sideout2002 View Post
Be sure you do not get the wrong stuff when you start your sound deadening project. There are two components here, and you need both of them if you want it done right and do not care about weight.

-There is the dynamat type stuff ..which is supposed to be used to control vibration although it does help a little with sound too.

-Then there is the self adhesive thick foam stuff which is actually made for sound deadening, and it is really lightweight fortunately.

Dynamat products are really expensive imho. I used the edead stuff which is much cheaper and just as good. Links below for more info:

Vibration
Sound

And as some of you already found out, when you do a good job, it takes quite a bit of material. Better to get more than enough to do a good job the first time (while you have your interior stripped!) than to have to stop and buy more.

If anyone is going to do this and wants some tips, feel free to shoot me a pm...there were lots of little things that ya figure out along the way that knowing before hand would have saved a lot of time
Ohhhhhhhh...so the foam stuff is for sounds and the sheet stuff is for vibrations. No wonder what I've done so far hasn't made a huge difference road noise wise.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:13 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by sideout2002 View Post
Be sure you do not get the wrong stuff when you start your sound deadening project. There are two components here, and you need both of them if you want it done right and do not care about weight.

-There is the dynamat type stuff ..which is supposed to be used to control vibration although it does help a little with sound too.

-Then there is the self adhesive thick foam stuff which is actually made for sound deadening, and it is really lightweight fortunately.

Dynamat products are really expensive imho. I used the edead stuff which is much cheaper and just as good. Links below for more info:

Vibration
Sound

And as some of you already found out, when you do a good job, it takes quite a bit of material. Better to get more than enough to do a good job the first time (while you have your interior stripped!) than to have to stop and buy more.

If anyone is going to do this and wants some tips, feel free to shoot me a pm...there were lots of little things that ya figure out along the way that knowing before hand would have saved a lot of time
There really isn't a right and wrong "stuff" it's really about how it is used...

"Mat" that 99% of the world refers to when talking sound deadener, is nothing but a mass loader... It adds mass to the panel, which in turn lowers it resonant frequency below a tolerable threshold... the more you add, the lower it goes (with diminishing returns)

The foil backing on any "proper" matting is a constraining layer... This holds the mass together, otherwise, it would act much like a "jello mold" and it's deadening properties would be less..

When you add mutiple layers, you end up with a sandwitch of mass loader/constraining layer/mass loader/constraining layer, you really start deadening, due to everything being held in place my the constraining layer.. The mass will also turn this "absorbed" vibration and resist it, causing a heat transfer effect.. another reason the constraining layer is aluminum, to dissipate heat very quickly, not that it makes a lot, but this stuff gets soft when warm, so it's best to keep it as cool and possible...within reason.. lol..

Then, the foam.. I have it.. Second Skin Overkill and Overkill Pro... It doesn't really deaden ANYTHING.. it's been proven.. It's too light weight... I DID however, notice a dramatic reduction in echo in my car when I went from bare deadener to everything covered in foam.. so while it doesn't deaden per sey, it may absorb a little of the higher registers..

Then you have MLV or Mass Loaded Vinyl.. I am about to install my portion of the MLV I have in the form of Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro...

This particular product has a layer of MLV (think 1/8" thick, heavy vinyl) mated to a 3/8" thick layer of a "memory" type foam..

MLV is designed for shear blocking of sound... much like matting, the more you can cover, the more you will block...

It's meant to literally reflect the frequencies we find offensive, back upon themselves.. some getting trapped in the memory foam material..

THEN, then there are the liquid deadeners... I have some SS "Sludge" that I will add to my wheel wells and possibly firewall...from the outside..

So you see, there is a LOT more to it, more than i'm even touching on here... I mean, I've been doing car audio as a hobby for 10+yrs, some of that professionally, been to school for installation, you know, all sorts of things...

I literally learned most of my sound deadening knowledge, the true, proper knowledge, in the last 2yrs...!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even claim to have a GREAT understanding.. !!!



Much to learn, learning the proper methods of installation can save a LOT of deadener... I didn't follow that route... I got handed a bunch of deadener and was told to go to town... I could have gotten away with 1/3 the deadener I have in my car, I'm sure.. but I had it..
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:16 PM   #159
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Aaron...was it you or someone else that said to put stuffing from a pillow into that crevace in the far back driver's side of the trunk? You know how there's that crevace in there that seems to lead down into the nether-regions?

Next time I get around to ordering more deadener...I am gonna go with some of that foam to line my trunk to try to get rid of some exhaust db's.

Do you think just doing the foam with the driver's half of the trunk already deadened would be enough for a big diff...OR do I need to finish deadening the rest of the trunk then go with the foam layer?
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:28 PM   #160
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Finish, then foam... But the ensolite/overkill type foam isn't going to decrease your DEEBEEs, you need something like the SS Luxury Liner for it's blocking properties..
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:45 PM   #161
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what about shooting expanding foam into that area? i was contemplating using that to fill the wheel well areas
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:33 PM   #162
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what about shooting expanding foam into that area? i was contemplating using that to fill the wheel well areas
Yeah that...would that be better than pillow stuffing? I swear to god I read somewhere on this forum that you should do that to help lower exhaust noise.

I will look up the SS Luxury Liner...I bet when I put it in google it will give me a ton of boating references lol.



Next stupid question: anyone know approximately how much I need to cover the trunk floor in a wagon? Will doing just this area take away a lot of my exhaust db's? I run a HKS Hi-power FWIW and would like to get the highway drone down by about 30% if possible.

Last edited by bpang1; 06-01-2009 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:53 PM   #163
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just the floor? 15-20 sq. ft. on the safe side
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:22 PM   #164
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just the floor? 15-20 sq. ft. on the safe side
OK thanks...so that's a couple of SS Luxo Liner sheets. If I have extra I will save to close up any holes I see.

The question is will I see a difference with the exhaust I have? I have read a lot so far on the LL and notice that you have to cover every hole and crack to get the true results. If I completely do the trunk doesn't that just mean the noise will come in from somewhere else like the strut mounts or the rear hatch?

**** this stuff is complicated as hell. Back in the day only had to put a few sheets of dynamat anywhere I wanted to cut down on vibes but now trying to fight actual exhaust sound is a different beast!
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:13 AM   #165
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You will be hard pressed to get rid of exhaust noise... you need something like lead sheets... (i'm serious, high end audio installs (comps) often times have lead sheets in there somewhere, they wouldn't tell you, but they do...lol)
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:07 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by sideout2002 View Post
-There is the dynamat type stuff ..which is supposed to be used to control vibration although it does help a little with sound too.

-Then there is the self adhesive thick foam stuff which is actually made for sound deadening, and it is really lightweight fortunately.

I respect your explanation but think it needs a slight clarification that might correct your statement somewhat.

I believe Dynamat is a sound deadening material. When I think of materials that "deaden" sound, I think of dynamat and those types of dampeners. The closed cell foam type materials don't really deaden anything. They insulate the same way insulation in your wall at home would by absorbing and deflecting it. Think of it this way. Let's say you apply a deadener like dynamat to a bell. The sound of the bell now when you hit it is deadened. It still makes a noise, but it no longer resonates the sound the way it would without the material applied. It does this by minimizing the vibration of the bells surface. So take that a step further. You've changed the loud "ting" to a dull "thut" sound. Say you want to minimize still the "thut" sound that reaches your ear. You need an insulator or "barrier". This is where the foam would come into play. The foam doesn't deaden or kill the "thut" sound in fact the sound is still just as load on the other side of the barrier. It just minimizes the db's of the sound that reaches your ear or in this case the interior of your car.

EDIT: Sorry noticed Aaron already hit this above.
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:29 PM   #167
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EDIT: Sorry noticed Aaron already hit this above.
I was gonna say, I didn't spend 20min on that for nuttin....


CyberSailor, Have a look through the pages... I "great stuffed" the crap out of my car.. From the rockers, up the B-pillar, along the bottom of the rear side panel (00' remember, coupe) filled and sealed above the rear wheel well, and then down into the nether regions of the trunk corners..

Now, weather or not this made any difference, I can't say.. I just wanted it as stiif in the areas I couldn't deaden, as possible..
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:33 PM   #168
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I just wanted it as stiff as possible..
exactly what i'm goin for around the entire car. i will be investing in a few cans of this most likely
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:41 PM   #169
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Just work slowly with it, it CAN distort panels.. I've seen it happen...

I also got WAY to much in one of my rockers... Well, it is a "hydrolyzing" foam, which means it uses the moisture from the air to cure it... well, I had un-cured foam comming out for 2-3 WEEKS... I'd go out to the car and find a spike of foam, where it found air/moisture and started to expand again... I cut 5-6-7-8 "fingers" of foam that magically appeared overnight.. lol..

Eventually, I had to dig through the layer of deadener, and open it all up so it could cure... it was a small mess..

Work slow..
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:58 PM   #170
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You will be hard pressed to get rid of exhaust noise... you need something like lead sheets... (i'm serious, high end audio installs (comps) often times have lead sheets in there somewhere, they wouldn't tell you, but they do...lol)
Well that's a little beyond my desires. Do you think there's even a point to me using the vinyl/foam method in terms of my exhaust? Not looking to totally not hear it...just quiet it by 25%.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:46 PM   #171
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Well, it works as a system, one dampens, one blocks... I bet the LL or the LLP would work... I have gotten a significant reduction in noise with the mat and foam (I've talked about what the foam did) so i'm expecting a greater reduction when I install the LLP... How much, I can't say yet... But my car went from stripped, and not being able to talk at 60mph, to now, where I can do 80 windows down and still have a decent conversation...!! With still more to go... !!!

Not scientific at all, I know... lol... and i'm a scientist by trade... lol...
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:58 PM   #172
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Well I will give it a shot...but I will probably want to see a few pictures of yours with the LLP so I can install it like that.

I'm just worried that I won't cover enough and waste money.
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:03 AM   #173
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UPDATE


I've been kicking much rump, now that 98% of the alarm install is out of the way.. I've got 08% of the front of the car floor and firewall done with LLP...





I also got some foam, a memory type foam, rather dense, slowly squishes down and slowly returns to shape (though faster than actual memory foam) for like 3 bucks for a sheet that was 2" thick, 7' wide and 5' across.. I've stuffed the rear side panels with 3 full layers, and many of the empty cavities in the dash.. lol..







Weather or not this will help anything I don't know, but for 3 bucks, screw it.. lol..
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:03 AM   #174
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08 or 80%?

and holy cow thats gonna be one quiet ride
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:44 AM   #175
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08 or 80%?

and holy cow thats gonna be one quiet ride
Which do you "think" is correct?
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